Camshaft Issue

[jpatt87]

Anyone ever have this happen?

Cant find the piece. Searched the cam chain area, top end and the surrounding area with a magnet, no luck.

I manually turned the engine over a couple times to see if i could hear it. probably not smart.

Could this have happened when the bike was running and not mess anything up? If not, how can i make sure its not down in my engine?

[Scattcatt]

Your bike's engine worked properly like that? The seat where that piece fits in the engine isn't all torn up? I'm amazed. My only suggestion would be to look around with a flashlight and one of those small mechanic's mirrors to see if you can find it. I'm not sure if the cams are made of a ferrous material (if it's not, then that would mean they're not magnetic) but I think they may have been, I distinctly remember them being far too heavy to be made out of aluminum. It would only make sense for the chunk to be in your engine somewhere still though, where else could it have gone? I guess it's possible it moved with the oil if the oil flows through holes large enough for that kind of piece, I'm not sure whether or not this is possible as I've never seen the size of the tubes and stuff that the oil flow through but even that I'm kind of doubting.

[Skippii]

Are you sure someone didn't drop the camshaft on a concrete floor after it was removed and didn't tell you? That just doesn't seem like the kind of wear and tear that would happen on its own...
Posted via Mobile Device

[greg737]

Cant find the piece. Searched the cam chain area, top end and the surrounding area with a magnet, no luck.

Small broken bits from the camshaft area of the EX-250 usually end up in the bottom of the clutch cover area. They get washed out of the cylinder head by the oil flow, they fall down the cam chain cavity and end up at the bottom of the clutch area.

[jpatt87]

Not sure if it was running like that or not..... just wondering if it was possible for an engine to run smoothly like that.....im guessing i did it, didnt slam it, but def could have bumped it.

Its def magnetic.

[jpatt87]

Ya, Im sure no one dropped it.....I def could have bumped it while removing or when I was re-installing.

I agree. You would think it would be noticeable if it chipped while running....im leaning towards my error.

[jpatt87]

Def going to check that out. Gotta read up on clutch stuff.... Really hope I find something.

[jpatt87]

Piece is huge, was in my oil screen. So it either broke on the road or during my last adjustment...

Any ideas on tightening the gear to the camshaft?

Anyone not replace the paper gasket on the clutch cover? 95% is in one piece. The only part that ripped is at one of the "mating surfaces." Gonna try silconing it.

[headshrink]

Yikes - I'm glad you found the piece. I lost a valve shim once, that I never found, and never had a problem with it in the engine either, so don't know if it rolled somewhere on the garage floor.

Personally I would get a new gasket, but based on how you describe it, you probably could get away with the silicone job you mentioned.

My thought on how it broke is possibly on removal. When you release preasure from the cam caps, the valve springs put some upward pressure on the cams, which can make removal of the cams a little more delicate than one might think. I doubt you where running the engine like this. That's my thought anyways.

Why do you need to tighten the gear to the camshaft? Did you remove the gear? Unless you are messing with cam timing, or replacing the gear, I can't think of a reason to remove the gear. If you are looking for a replacement camshaft on ebay, I'm 99% positive it will have the gear already attached to it.

[jpatt87]

Hope you lost it on the ground. try the screen. (my go to answer for everything now)

I think that it was during an adjustment too.

I found out yesterday that the torque setting is 11 lbs. i looked in every part but the right part of the manual...it came removed. they are two diff p/n's. bought it from a salvage yard (kycycles) so i understand every part counts. i probbaly would have been frustrated with them if the torque was like 40 or something insane....hoping the clearance stays within spec with the new cam.... i always have a difficult time with my cam chain slipping so i am not a fan of removing the cams. ALONG with the 90% possibility that i broke the cam too!! ......

I remember talking to you two years ago. i think i dumped a bunch of sand in my top end ...

Ive done my clearance checks at 7, 13, and 28 K....

@7k I had like 2 with almost zero clearance. dealers suck (i do too sometimes)

@13 all were within spec but i screwed my airbox boots up so i decided to go with the dual k&n filter. i my jets are 110 or 112. 2 washers under my needles. 2 1/2 or 23/4 turns on the screws where you had to remove the plugs. sounds and accelerated pretty beast like. but i loose coolant and think my fan doesnt come on when it should. gonna check the sensor this week.

i plugged my clean air emissions and the hole that points up towards the seat at the same time around 28k....the filters i used did not allow enough air and i think either blew a gasket or just blew a bunch of oil out of the bottom plug that points towards the seat. so i might have a nice surprise when i crank her back up.

Another thing i noticed is i think i am shooting oil out my carbs. Just a guess. i use this synthetic oil that smells like flowers and notice the smell when im riding. and my filter is really oil-eee.......boggles my mind....noticed it since 10k but its not enough to have to add a significant amount of oil in a week. just notice it.

28k had 3 valves out of spec. within .03, but still outside of the range. discover broken camshaft. used cam cost 115. hardest part was removing the gear from the old camshaft. It would be very easy to strip the bolts. i used one bolt to get leverage to break the other. next time i def would use a small pipe wrench to grip the shaft, giggity. i feel like it wouldnt screw anything up unless of course the shaft breaks in half.

Hows the riding been Bob?

What are carb sync ports?

[etiainen]

Kinda looks like this:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...&postcount=169

Happened to me too:/

[jpatt87]

i feel like weve known each other for years.

your solution?

[Racer x]

Yup I did it too. The unbolting of the cam with tension on the cam lobe caused the cam to cock and break the end off.

[jpatt87]

darrrnnn. i completely understand what you guys mean now. so how do you keep that from cocking?

[etiainen]

Solution, put bike together, bike started..lol..not the best idea I've had.

[jpatt87]

hahaha, thats insane. i did the same thing....unknowingly

i mean the bike ran for 15k without any problems that i would relate to each other.

I felt like i should try to fix a problem that could lead to jeffburger on the road.

[jpatt87]

(pouring one out)

[etiainen]

A replacement is expensive. Ebay I guess is your friend, if you can find one, the newgen ones are harder to find.

[jpatt87]

ya i have the new used one already.

just want to avoid breaking one again.....specially w.in 2 days of getting the new one in.

[alex.s]

aww that piece isn't even the bearing, its just to line things up right? you could probably just put it back broken... i'm surprised you even bothered getting the chunks out. they'd probably work their way out eventually. i hear things like that get reabsorbed into the body

[ninja250r81]

If it happens more than once its a manufacturing/casting problem.

thanks Indonesia.

remember our bikes are manufactured / casting in Indonesia
then
put together in japan.

Thanks to people who these days don't want to pay for anything of quality

$59.00aud for a piston
$330.00aud JE piston

i choose JE

[Racer x]

This bike is a very good product. The broken cam is not a casting problem. Release the chain tension and allow the cam to rotate to a position where the front can be lifted out first.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by ninja250r81

remember our bikes are manufactured / casting in Indonesia
then
put together in japan.

Thailand.

[jpatt87]

Racer
so you release the cct and then rotate the cams to somewhere between 1t and 2t? which one of your cams broke?

im still trying to wrap my head around timing... but I feel like the cams can be taken off regardless of where 1t or 2t is; the most important part is getting the cams on the correct links of the chain when reassembling. correct me if im completely off.


-I want to let it reabsorb everytime.

[jpatt87]

oh. i didnt have to make any adjustments at 13k. So from 7k to 28k the cam was chipped like that and the little piece was sitting in my screen.

the guides that are near the broken piece show zero signs of degradation.

I would Never suggest anyone leave it like that.

[Alex]

Parts come from all over. The bikes are assembled in Thailand. Not Japan.

http://www.2fiddy.com/category/countries/thailand/

and

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/157/73...irst-Ride.aspx

In fact, Kawasaki admits having trouble getting enough of the Thailand-built Ninjas on U.S. shores to meet the dealer demand.

[etiainen]

Don't rotate with the CCT not tensioned..you'll have a fun time redoing the timing, which is what I had to do:/

Dumb me. I learned a lot from my valve adjustment...maybe too much

[Racer x]

Originally Posted by jpatt87

Racer
so you release the cct and then rotate the cams to somewhere between 1t and 2t? which one of your cams broke?

im still trying to wrap my head around timing... but I feel like the cams can be taken off regardless of where 1t or 2t is; the most important part is getting the cams on the correct links of the chain when reassembling. correct me if im completely off.


-I want to let it reabsorb everytime.

I broke my intake cam. But I think it can happen to any of them.

Yes you can take it apart anywhere, and are better off doing it when there is not a piston at the top at all.
Just line up the cam to head marks when you put it together. Make the front part of the chain tight as you wrap the chain around the exhaust cam then go to the intake cam. After that install the tensioner. And of course turn it around twice to make sure it is all lined up.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Alex

Parts come from all over. The bikes are assembled in Thailand. Not Japan.

http://www.2fiddy.com/category/countries/thailand/

and

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/157/73...irst-Ride.aspx

Not only that, the parts he showed were Wayanlam's aftermarket oversize pistons of suspect quality.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...430#post311430

They claim to be "good enough that the OEM Kawasaki is endorsing them as an original part" but they don't FIT as an original part and appear to be cast instead of forged. His mechanic tried everything and he actually LOST power (2HP). I believe that it's the same "Kawasaki" factory that's making the fatter rear rim.

[jpatt87]

Jon- I am the same. I started riding with no clue how to take a bike apart.

So when you reassemble, you have made sure the engine hasnt turned over and is still at 2t, or wherever you removed the cams? What gave you trouble when you had to re-time?

[etiainen]

I had the issue of turning the crank after removing the CCT which made chain links skip messing my timing up.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...&postcount=156

I used that pic headshrink posted to get my timing back. It was a PITA and took me a few hours to close up as I kept getting it one chain link off. If you count links you'll be ok.

So I was at 2T but my timing didn't look as such in the picture. Make sure you're at the 2T where you did the adjustment, there are two and I didn't understand any of this until I was deep inside it all.

[jpatt87]

Ive read a couple posts from here or somewhere that you just need it on 2t and doesnt matter which one...... cant find the post.

Did you have your chain taut?

[Racer x]

The engine must be on T2 . That means the right side piston is at the top. And the mark on the flywheel lines up with the tab on the case. It does not matter if it is perfect when you take it apart . But get it close with the cam lines in place. Then mark your chain. The most Likley reason for getting it off a tooth is there is to much slop in the front part of the chain. You need the chain tight around the exhaust cam. Marking the chain will help. Once you turn the motor around the chain marks will no linger be valid.

[micoulisninja]

Originally Posted by Skippii

Are you sure someone didn't drop the camshaft on a concrete floor after it was removed and didn't tell you? That just doesn't seem like the kind of wear and tear that would happen on its own...
Posted via Mobile Device

that was the deal in my case... happened to me too...

[Bigballsofpaint]

So im going to bump this thread, i did the same thing with the intake cam. Did you guys end up buying a new cam or just filing the broken edge smooth?

[etiainen]

I just put it in...it worked but probably not the best idea. Maybe eBay for a new one? When I looked last year there were a lot more available for pregens.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Bigballsofpaint]

All i have seen on ebay is top end kits, the cams, head, valves and all. Not really needing all that, granted its a good price but id rather not shell out the 140 if i dont have to. The bike is going to be sold come spring (this is a friends bike, hes the ginue pig). But id rather not put in something thats going to be bad, im not a dick.

I dont see why putting it back would be a bad thing as long as i bring it into my shop and make sure theres no burrs on the edges. Its not a critical surface from what i can tell, but i noticed a few guys had the same issue so i wondered what you all ended up doing.

Also, do you guys see any reason i wouldnt be able to grind down the shims? All the intake valves are within spec, all 4 exhaust valves are out of spec, but they are all on the tight side. So i could grind them down .004-.005 to get them all within spec. We have a real grinder here with carbide wheels, a magnetic table and all that jazz that we use to sharpen drills and grind v channels into some of our tools for collant. I can grind them to within .0005, completely flat, it just doesnt hurt to ask what you guys recommend.

[Racer x]

You can reuse the broken cam. Not great but not a problem. I would clean up the edge of the break. As for grinding shims. IF you can grind them flat you can grind them. But holding them with your fingers on a grinder is not grinding them flat..The tools you have sound like what is needed.

[Racer x]

I repaired my camshaft. The edge was broken. I welded to the edge.
First I put a hose clamp on the bearing surface. Then got some decent penetration. After that I used grinders and sanders to restore it to a decent shape.

To avoid this set your engine st TDC. But before removing the can caps rotate the engine counter clockwise 45 deg.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I repaired my camshaft. The edge was broken. I welded to the edge.
First I put a hose clamp on the bearing surface. Then got some decent penetration. After that I used grinders and sanders to restore it to a decent shape.

To avoid this set your engine st TDC. But before removing the can caps rotate the engine counter clockwise 45 deg.

Does that take some of the tension off?