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Old January 27th, 2014, 10:04 AM   #1
DCMoney
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Ninja 250 Captive Spacers

The thread below got me started on making a set of captive spacers for the rear wheel a while back.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=153501

So I finally finished up 8 sets and have several people interested in purchasing a set or two and wanted to gauge interest in these and see if there was a market for them.

Their made out of 6061 Aluminum and are 1/3 the weight of the stock ones.

Same dimensions (within tolerances) as stock spacers just with extra flange to lock into dust seal.



Video of the prototypes in action.

Link to original page on YouTube.

I don't want this to be a for sale thread more of a Q&A and like I said a way to gauge interest. So far all 8 sets are accounted for.

Fronts are being prototyped right now, will replace the speedo spacer and be captive as well. (Canceled)

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Last futzed with by DCMoney; February 10th, 2014 at 12:44 PM. Reason: Canceled Front Spacers
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Old January 27th, 2014, 10:12 AM   #2
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YES, depending on cost, but YES!

p.s. are the 300 spacers the same? can't remember...
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Old January 27th, 2014, 10:20 AM   #3
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YES, depending on cost, but YES!

p.s. are the 300 spacers the same? can't remember...
Looking at the microfiche for the 250 vs 300 they have the same part numbers and look the same...

But without a 300 for me to test them on I couldn't sell them as 300 captive spacers. Ill gladly send someone a set to try.
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Old January 27th, 2014, 10:37 AM   #4
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sent you a PM
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Old January 27th, 2014, 11:07 AM   #5
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I'd be down for two. Any idea of the cost?
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Old January 27th, 2014, 11:48 AM   #6
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Old January 27th, 2014, 12:05 PM   #7
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I want! I'm also very interested in the front wheel version.

In the video, how do you keep the rear brake assembly from falling off it's alignment slot?
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Old January 27th, 2014, 12:10 PM   #8
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I'm down for 2. Let me know costs
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Old January 27th, 2014, 12:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
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I want! I'm also very interested in the front wheel version.

In the video, how do you keep the rear brake assembly from falling off it's alignment slot?
Using this (cut it down when I got home)







Its 3D printed ABS I did brake that one so I might make some out of delrin eventually. It did help with putting the rear tire on. Secret is to spread the rear brake pads open.

Quote:
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I'm down for 2. Let me know costs
I'm going to make a bunch more this weekend. Will have a for sale ad posted this weekend.
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Old January 27th, 2014, 01:22 PM   #10
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Interested as well
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Old January 27th, 2014, 01:32 PM   #11
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Old January 27th, 2014, 02:02 PM   #12
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I want! I'm also very interested in the front wheel version.

In the video, how do you keep the rear brake assembly from falling off it's alignment slot?
I drilled a hole in the bracket and zip tied it to the arm
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Old January 27th, 2014, 02:09 PM   #13
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Old January 27th, 2014, 02:13 PM   #14
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I drilled a hole in the bracket and zip tied it to the arm
...

That is so brilliantly simple. I may steal that.
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Old January 27th, 2014, 02:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
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I drilled a hole in the bracket and zip tied it to the arm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knolly View Post
...

That is so brilliantly simple. I may steal that.
Going to try that as well!
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Old January 27th, 2014, 03:10 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simook View Post
In the video, how do you keep the rear brake assembly from falling off it's alignment slot?
Check this
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...+caliper+mount

I would be in for a front to eliminate the speedo drive.
Just a poll type question. How many racers run seals?

Last futzed with by bruce71198; January 27th, 2014 at 03:23 PM. Reason: added info
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Old January 28th, 2014, 12:04 PM   #17
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Tested the front prototypes last night, with the speedo side being so long I'm not sure a captive spacer is going to work on that side. Still working on it though.

I can definitely make a standard spacer for a speedo replacement if people want. (Canceled)
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Old January 28th, 2014, 05:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCMoney View Post
Tested the front prototypes last night, with the speedo side being so long I'm not sure a captive spacer is going to work on that side. Still working on it though.

I can definitely make a standard spacer for a speedo replacement if people want.
Maybe just a captive spacer for one side and just leave the speedo be? It's one less thing to worry about. Plus, the speedo doesnt seem to want to come off so easily anyways.
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Old January 28th, 2014, 05:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCMoney View Post
Using this (cut it down when I got home)







Its 3D printed ABS I did brake that one so I might make some out of delrin eventually. It did help with putting the rear tire on. Secret is to spread the rear brake pads open.



I'm going to make a bunch more this weekend. Will have a for sale ad posted this weekend.
I like the Delrin piece also...would you be able to make one again and if so, how much
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Old January 28th, 2014, 06:29 PM   #20
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Maybe just a captive spacer for one side and just leave the speedo be? It's one less thing to worry about. Plus, the speedo doesnt seem to want to come off so easily anyways.
Ill give that a try. Thanks.

Quote:
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I like the Delrin piece also...would you be able to make one again and if so, how much
Going to get some material this weekend.
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Old January 28th, 2014, 08:08 PM   #21
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and just FYI, the 300 doesn't have a speedo sensor. I run a 250 wheel on my 300, and have to use the speedo sensor to match the spacers.
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Old January 28th, 2014, 10:00 PM   #22
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In for the rear
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Old January 29th, 2014, 05:52 PM   #23
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Seriously. ..what is the cost?
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Old January 29th, 2014, 07:43 PM   #24
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I'll take one of everything at the next MCRA general meeting. (For a reasonable sum

Let me know when you have a price list

Edit: and a set for the rains!

Last futzed with by krakatak; January 29th, 2014 at 08:45 PM. Reason: it rains sometimes.
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Old January 29th, 2014, 08:29 PM   #25
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Seriously. ..what is the cost?
+2 interested as well.
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Old January 29th, 2014, 08:52 PM   #26
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$40 shipped for 1 set of the rear captive spacers.

Fronts are still in prototyping stage. (Canceled)

Axle assist pin, probably a few weeks out. (Canceled)

Will have more rear spacer sets available to ship out Monday morning.

Paypal is preferred payment method.

Can also pick up locally.
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Old January 29th, 2014, 09:19 PM   #27
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Quote:
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$40 shipped for 1 set of the rear captive spacers.

Fronts are still in prototyping stage.

Axle assist pin, probably a few weeks out.

Will have more rear spacer sets available to ship out Monday morning.

Paypal is preferred payment method.

Can also pick up locally.
Paypal email?
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Old January 29th, 2014, 09:46 PM   #28
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I'd be down for a rear spacer too. . .
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Old January 30th, 2014, 06:23 AM   #29
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Paypal email?
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...606#post803606
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 07:53 AM   #30
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10 sets made yesterday.

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Old February 10th, 2014, 12:18 PM   #31
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One of the drawbacks to running a captive spacer is the amount of drag the dust seal has on the spacer itself. I installed my ceramic wheel bearings in my wheels and spun the wheels with the stock dust seals in place. The difference in drag didn't seem to be extremely noticeable. I then realized the dust seals were dragging on the spacers. I took a dremel and shaved them down a tiny bit to clear them from the spacers. Once it was all back together I spun the wheels again and they rotated for days.


Yes, it sucks that my spacers fall out easy if I'm changing tires but the upside is there is next to no resistance when the wheels are rolling. Every little bit helps when you have low horsepower and this helps get all of it to the ground without fighting the motor.

But it's up to you guys. Do you all really need to change your wheels that often or quickly? I race too and I've never seen the need for it unless you're doing an endurance race.
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Old February 10th, 2014, 12:22 PM   #32
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One of the drawbacks to running a captive spacer is the amount of drag the dust seal has on the spacer itself. I installed my ceramic wheel bearings in my wheels and spun the wheels with the stock dust seals in place. The difference in drag didn't seem to be extremely noticeable. I then realized the dust seals were dragging on the spacers. I took a dremel and shaved them down a tiny bit to clear them from the spacers. Once it was all back together I spun the wheels again and they rotated for days.


Yes, it sucks that my spacers fall out easy if I'm changing tires but the upside is there is next to no resistance when the wheels are rolling. Every little bit helps when you have low horsepower and this helps get all of it to the ground without fighting the motor.

But it's up to you guys. Do you all really need to change your wheels that often or quickly? I race too and I've never seen the need for it unless you're doing an endurance race.
So where exactly did you shave your captive spacers? on the sides or the backside of the spacer that faces towards the inside of the wheel/bearings?
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Old February 10th, 2014, 12:26 PM   #33
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haha its another trick part. custom. @shane liberty
I think the rolling resistance of the spacers is .0000025 hp loss.

I like the idea of 0 resistance but I also dont want dust in there....
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Old February 10th, 2014, 02:03 PM   #34
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So where exactly did you shave your captive spacers? on the sides or the backside of the spacer that faces towards the inside of the wheel/bearings?
I don't have captive spacers. I just have the stock spacers. It's the rubber dust seal that goes on the outside of the bearings in the hub I'm talking about. There's no reason to have a captive spacer on the wheels. That setup automatically causes drag.


The inside edge of the dust seal that touches the spacer. That's the surface that rubs the spacer when the wheel is spinning. I shaved it down so there's no contact. It means your spacers don't stay in but there's no resistance caused by the seal. Just a little trick I learned. Same thing as not over tightening your axles. Use the safety pin to your advantage. Over tightened axles cause drag. There's absolutely no reason to use an impact to tighten them down.
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Old February 10th, 2014, 03:54 PM   #35
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Link to original page on YouTube.

Time lapse video from Saturday.

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Old February 10th, 2014, 03:57 PM   #36
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haha its another trick part. custom. @shane liberty
I think the rolling resistance of the spacers is .0000025 hp loss.

I like the idea of 0 resistance but I also dont want dust in there....
The bearings are sealed so there's no risk of damaging your bearings. The dust seals help if you're going to put a ton of miles on the bike and have a great distance between service intervals, but in racing these things don't apply. If you spin the wheel with the dust seal then without you'll see a big difference. When you're racing in a spec class where everyone is on the same hardware and inches count across the finish line, things like this matter. I had a battle with a buddy that came down to the thousandths of a second and I lost a podium spot by half a wheel across the finish line. Having every little legal advantage does make the difference for these little bikes. Not taking advantage of it is like being offered an allowance, taking some and leaving money on the table. Makes no sense.

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Old February 10th, 2014, 05:44 PM   #37
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I had Dave at worldwide bearings specifically tell me to run my seals or expect shorter life.

As far as these spacers go, if you cut the ID dead on and cut the OD undersize by .05 -.1 mm where the seal rides, leaving the inner ridge as is, then you would still get a good seal with less drag...best of both worlds.

Hear me @DCMoney
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Old February 10th, 2014, 05:54 PM   #38
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Btw...nice results Shane
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Old February 10th, 2014, 05:55 PM   #39
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I had Dave at worldwide bearings specifically tell me to run my seals or expect shorter life.

As far as these spacers go, if you cut the ID dead on and cut the OD undersize by .05 -.1 mm where the seal rides, leaving the inner ridge as is, then you would still get a good seal with less drag...best of both worlds.

Hear me @DCMoney

Totally understandable man. I totally understand. Also, I wasn't suggesting you remove the seals, I've only removed a tiny bit on the inside edge to reduce drag. The seals are still in place.

Carry on gentlemen. Pay no attention to the peanut gallery (me) I'm just another looney tune from SoCal.
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Old February 10th, 2014, 05:57 PM   #40
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Btw...nice results Shane
Thanks! I like this result better since it was my first time ever racing a 250 and the competition is tough. It's a slower lap but I grabbed some tire money

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