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Old October 5th, 2012, 06:49 AM   #1
Fappy
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Sluggish rev, erratic idle, dies with throttle

I've got an issue I was hoping you guys could help me with.

So I have a 2008 Ninja 250. I've been riding it to work basically every day, except yesterday (rained), and have had no problems recently. The bike runs fine. Even took it for a 67 mile trip on Sunday.

Today, I was going to start the bike up to ride it into work, when this occurred:
  1. I smelled gasoline (light, not too strong) around the bike. Ignored it.
  2. Went to start the bike. About 60 degrees out. Choke on full, hit the starter - Cranks for 5 seconds, nothing.
  3. Repeat cranking 5 times, gave the bike some throttle at the same time, and it was able to start. This is highly unusual.
  4. With the choke on full, the RPMs barely climb above 1k.
  5. After a few minutes, the RPMs begin to climb, but it becomes erratic. Idles up to 4k by itself, and then down to 1k, repeating.
  6. Bike has been idling for about 5 minutes in this manner. I go to give it some gas. Very sluggish.
  7. Open throttle about 1/3, and the engine dies.

Even after warming it for about 10 minutes, this problem continued. It revved terribly slowly and if I gave it any throttle beyond about 1/3, it would immediately die. Also note that I was able to get it to idle with the choke off after warm. Seemed to be at exactly 1300 rpm there, which is good.


Changes since I last rode it (two days ago)?
1. It drizzled a little overnight, and the bike was uncovered
2. I put a new chain on last night, but did not remove the rear wheel or change the sprockets (the sprockets were okay.)

16,000 miles on it.
Could the carbs have gummed up overnight? Could something electrical be damp and causing this issue? Water in the gas? No idea!
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Old October 5th, 2012, 07:35 AM   #2
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It is very possible that water penetrated the tank and went down into the carbs' bowls.

I would try draining the bowls into a glass container and would check if water is present.

If so, disconnect the hose from the carbs and drain the tank the same way.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 07:42 AM   #3
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Thanks, I'll try this... What would be the reason I was smelling gasoline around the bike though (even before turning it on)? Related, possibly?

Also I've had it in the rain before and never had these issues.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 08:25 AM   #4
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Ok. Thanks for the advice Motofool - I think I'm still going to drain em.
However, it seems to be working now (???). I think it was a water issue SOMEWHERE. But now after sitting in the sun for a few hours it starts and revs fine!

Weird weird weird. Still going to drain the carbs and look for water.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 08:32 AM   #5
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No idea about the smell of gas before turning the engine on.
Was the tank full before the rain?

Is your bike old-gen?

Mine is and it has had a similar problems sometimes before.
The tank cap has a drain to avoid rain to enter the tank, but still does sometimes if rain is abundant.

Water has flown into the bowls at time of opening the petcock to the reserve position (which picks up from the bottom of the tank, where any rain collects).

There is also a drain for each spark plug well, which may be clogged, impairing one of both plugs.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 08:40 AM   #6
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It's an '08 (new gen). But most of that stuff should be the same.
The tank was 99% full before the rain. The tank drain... that explains that hose leading from the tank to the ground under my bike xD. I couldn't figure out what it was for before, aside from maybe venting!

I think the most likely explanations were that rain was in the carbs somehow, or that water collected around the spark wells or ignition system and caused it to fire weakly or not at all.

I actually wish I had a reserve position on the petcock like you old-gens do. My gas gauge is broken and useless It stays at FULL all the time.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 09:30 AM   #7
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A few other factors can affect engine performance as well. Winter blend gas, cooler temps and humidity can make engine starts difficult. Sudden temp drops (such as temps in the high 70's then quick drops into the low 50's due to rain) can also cause some small amounts of condensation to form in the tank if not full (warm air inside the airbox can form small amounts of condensation too).
Colder fuel and air does not atomize as well, therefore making combustion sluggish and sometimes unstable until it reaches a good operating temp.

One of the best things to do is to keep the bike well tuned at all times and if possible keep it covered during inclimate weather.

Another easy thing to do also, is keep some Star Tron Fuel Treatment in the tank. The stuff works great and has some real good reviews.

Last futzed with by DaBlue1; October 5th, 2012 at 01:46 PM.
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Old October 5th, 2012, 11:10 AM   #8
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Interesting.

Yeah I'm trying to take every precaution with the bike; keeping it covered where possible, etc. I'm also going to try to avoid having to winterize the bike by riding it through the winter. We'll see how long I last there lol.

I've run seafoam through the tank twice now since I got the bike. What are your thoughts on Seafoam as opposed to Star Tron? (Never tried Star Tron).
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Old October 5th, 2012, 02:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fappy View Post
... What are your thoughts on Seafoam as opposed to Star Tron? (Never tried Star Tron).
Both work well, but the Star Tron seems to be a better fuel stabilizer and you can't over dose with it, like you can Sea Foam. Star Tron comes in three different concentrations for mixing convenience. There is a small engine, diesel and marine formula. I use the marine formula because it's more concentrated so you use less. An 8 fl. oz. bottle treats up to 128 gallons of gas. I've been using it in my cars, bike and lawn equipment.

Fuel Testers also did a study on gas additives that had some interesting info. However not everyone will agree and each will have his/her own opinions and experiences.
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Old October 7th, 2012, 06:03 PM   #10
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Great info, thanks. I'll be trying it out.
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Old October 8th, 2012, 05:18 AM   #11
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I had similar issues with mine this past weekend. I think it's fix now. Needed a new set of spark plugs. Always seems to be the simple things we forget about.
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Old October 8th, 2012, 05:47 AM   #12
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i always assume people check plugs first, lol.
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Old October 8th, 2012, 06:20 AM   #13
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Heh. On the way to work this morning it was initially having some trouble when I went up a hill. It would start to die out and wouldn't rev up while going up a hill... I think there was still some water left in it (carb bowls?). Anyway, it cleared up after a couple minutes and now it's fine! Started right up in the cold (40 F) weather.
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