2001 not taking off in first gear - Page 3

kkim · September 10th, 2010, 03:23 PM

what was the condition of the diaphragms?

crackerjack · September 10th, 2010, 03:25 PM

in the cabs,with the needles?

no tears or holes, on was mishapen slightly but i got it back in place without any pinching

kkim · September 10th, 2010, 03:36 PM

yeah, sorry... the slide diaphragms.

btw, I just did a quick search on Goggle about failed diaphragms in the coast enricher and most say the bike will run like crap if the diaphragm is leaking.

bob706 · September 10th, 2010, 07:53 PM

Have you tried running some seafoam through the carbs Vance?

crackerjack · September 10th, 2010, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob706

Have you tried running some seafoam through the carbs Vance?

put a little less than an ounce in the oil and 2 ounces in the tank, i had about 2 gals in my tank

crackerjack · September 10th, 2010, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

btw, I just did a quick search on Goggle about failed diaphragms in the coast enricher and most say the bike will run like crap if the diaphragm is leaking.

the diaphragm is in tip top shape, but i have put rtv all aorund it, and will see if anything changes

also i cranked up the bike today and just decided to see what choke would do and when i choked it it died

kkim · September 10th, 2010, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crackerjack

the diaphragm is in tip top shape, but i have put rtv all aorund it, and will see if anything changes

also i cranked up the bike today and just decided to see what choke would do and when i choked it it died

how warm was the bike? if warmed up and you choke, it dies... that's normal.

crackerjack · September 10th, 2010, 10:52 PM

bike wasnt warm, but was idling before i decided to pull the choke

crackerjack · September 10th, 2010, 10:56 PM

scratch that i just went out to my bike and cranked her, let it idle for a second or two then pulled choke and it functioned fine,

guess it might have been warm enought to do that earlier

crackerjack · September 11th, 2010, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

ah, okay... couldn't place it from your pic, but isn't it also known as a coasting enrichener? if so... http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_a_c...a_Closed_Mouth

if yours is not functioning properly, that could well be the source of your problem.

so earlier i said that i was gonna put some RTV silicone around the coasting enricher, and i did, let her dry and i just took her for a ride to the gas station and it fixed one of my problems

i can now come to a stop no problem without having to keep the rpms up

thanks for the tip, you're great

crackerjack · September 11th, 2010, 02:53 AM

still having problems taking off below 6k RPMs tho

kkim · September 11th, 2010, 11:28 AM

add a couple of 3mm shims under each needle... see if that helps.

crackerjack · September 11th, 2010, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

add a couple of 3mm shims under each needle... see if that helps.

how exactly is that done?

kkim · September 11th, 2010, 12:15 PM

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11963

crackerjack · September 11th, 2010, 12:42 PM

you think that 3mm washers are best?
are the carbs between our two generations the same?

kkim · September 11th, 2010, 12:44 PM

yes and yes.

crackerjack · September 11th, 2010, 12:44 PM

sweet thanks ill try it out

kkim · September 11th, 2010, 12:50 PM

good thing is, if it doesn't help/work it's completely reversible.

most that try it, love the results.

crackerjack · September 11th, 2010, 03:04 PM

but do you think thats gonna have any effect on my problem with taking off in low RPMs

kkim · September 11th, 2010, 03:33 PM

yes... that's what this mod does.

crackerjack · September 11th, 2010, 04:24 PM

so guess what, nowhere within 20 miles of me sells 3mm washers. guess im gonna have to try to order them online or something.

kkim · September 11th, 2010, 05:12 PM

SAE #4 washers will work as well, but if you still can't find any...

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=55174

crackerjack · September 15th, 2010, 01:36 PM

kkim;

i took the bike apart today because i got my 3mm washers in today. broke the carbs down and put 1 3mm washer under each needle. it seems to have helped but still isnt back to her old self.

should i put another 3mm washer under each needle?
i think im gonna try it.
let ya know how it goes.

kkim · September 15th, 2010, 01:42 PM

I think I put 2 washers under each needle on a friend's stock pregen. He likes his bike much more now.

crackerjack · September 15th, 2010, 02:47 PM

i put a second 3mm washer under each needle and its almost perfect.

has any ever tried to put a 3rd washer under? or is that too much?

thanks for all your help

kkim · September 15th, 2010, 02:52 PM

it gets better... after you decide how many washers work best for you (yeah, try another one and see how you like it), you need to recheck the mixture screw settings and then sync the carbs. (or is it sync the carbs then play w/ the mixture screws... i forget)

hows the top end of the bike... does it pull all the way to redline cleanly?

crackerjack · September 15th, 2010, 02:59 PM

i think its sync carbs then play with mixture screws

but top end is fine and smooth, only problem i had with it with 2 washers was i took off and went about 5 feet to end of my driveway and pulled in the clutch(traffic) to stop and it died. but i cranked it up and took her around the block and it seemed fine. the bike still doesnt take me off like it used to i still have to give it throttle to get it to take me off.

ill resync the carbs and play with the mixture screw a little bit before i put another washer in, see if that has any effect first.

but still it seems alot better
i am waiting on a new cover for the coasting enricher and that may fix her completely

its soo close to back to normal

kkim · September 15th, 2010, 03:09 PM

keep in mind once you put a new costing enricher in and the bike reacts differently, you need to reexamine your jetting at that time.

right now, you may be compensating for something that's wrong (coasting enricher) with the jetting. That is why jetting should be done last after the bike is whole and healthy and modding to the intake and exhaust has been completed or you run the risk of having to rejet every time a change is made to the engine.

crackerjack · September 15th, 2010, 03:40 PM

i havent done any jetting, unless putting washers under the needles is considered "jetting". im still sitting with all stock jets.

but all im doing to the coasting enricher is putting on a new cap, so if anything the only thing i think that would be effected by doing this would be my bike dying when i come to a stop, but im not sure. the only thing that got "fixed" when i put rtv silicone around the coasting enricher was it helped with me coming to a stop, it had no effect on take off what so ever.

kkim · September 15th, 2010, 04:01 PM

I consider anything you do to change the air/fuel ratio that the carb supplies the engine, rejetting, so yes, shimming, in my book, falls under the term of jetting.

the problem with the siliconed coasting enricher right is that you have no idea if the fix you did solved all of the leak that was obviously happening.

once you get the cover in and can be assured it isn't leaking any further, then you can be sure the jetting you're doing is on a healthy engine.

crackerjack · September 24th, 2010, 04:15 PM

so adding the shims to the needles didnt really change the performance of the bike as i wanted, the bike still doesnt like low rpms under 7k.

i am still waiting on the coasting enricher cap($38). i just saw online a local 2001 250(my same year bike) that is being parted out. do you think i should just purchase the carbs off of that bike(as long as i go check it out and make sure it is in good condition) for $100 instead?

i am still no closer in figuring out what the problem with my bike is, but i think that if i get another set of carbs i could atleast narrow down where the problem is.

kkim · September 24th, 2010, 04:19 PM

sure, that wouldn't be a bad idea and would aid greatly in troubleshooting. I'm sure you could sell parts off the carbs once you're done to make back a part of of the money. people are always looking for untorn diaphragms.

I've seen carbs for a pregen go for about half of that on Ebay, though.

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September 10th, 2010, 03:23 PM	#81
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	what was the condition of the diaphragms?

September 10th, 2010, 03:25 PM	#82
crackerjack slightly mechanical Name: vance Location: gulf breeze, Fl Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2001 ninja 250; 1981 yamaha maxim 650(have not started working on her yet) Posts: 79	in the cabs,with the needles? no tears or holes, on was mishapen slightly but i got it back in place without any pinching

September 10th, 2010, 03:36 PM	#83
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	yeah, sorry... the slide diaphragms. btw, I just did a quick search on Goggle about failed diaphragms in the coast enricher and most say the bike will run like crap if the diaphragm is leaking.

September 10th, 2010, 07:53 PM	#84
bob706 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Sean Location: Mary Esther, FL Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 1998 HD Road King Posts: A lot.	Have you tried running some seafoam through the carbs Vance?

September 10th, 2010, 10:52 PM	#88
crackerjack slightly mechanical Name: vance Location: gulf breeze, Fl Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2001 ninja 250; 1981 yamaha maxim 650(have not started working on her yet) Posts: 79	bike wasnt warm, but was idling before i decided to pull the choke

September 10th, 2010, 10:56 PM	#89
crackerjack slightly mechanical Name: vance Location: gulf breeze, Fl Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2001 ninja 250; 1981 yamaha maxim 650(have not started working on her yet) Posts: 79	scratch that i just went out to my bike and cranked her, let it idle for a second or two then pulled choke and it functioned fine, guess it might have been warm enought to do that earlier

September 11th, 2010, 02:53 AM	#91
crackerjack slightly mechanical Name: vance Location: gulf breeze, Fl Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2001 ninja 250; 1981 yamaha maxim 650(have not started working on her yet) Posts: 79	still having problems taking off below 6k RPMs tho

September 11th, 2010, 11:28 AM	#92
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	add a couple of 3mm shims under each needle... see if that helps.

September 11th, 2010, 12:15 PM	#94
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11963

September 11th, 2010, 12:42 PM	#95
crackerjack slightly mechanical Name: vance Location: gulf breeze, Fl Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2001 ninja 250; 1981 yamaha maxim 650(have not started working on her yet) Posts: 79	you think that 3mm washers are best? are the carbs between our two generations the same?

September 11th, 2010, 12:44 PM	#96
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	yes and yes.

September 11th, 2010, 12:50 PM	#98
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	good thing is, if it doesn't help/work it's completely reversible. most that try it, love the results.

September 11th, 2010, 03:04 PM	#99
crackerjack slightly mechanical Name: vance Location: gulf breeze, Fl Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2001 ninja 250; 1981 yamaha maxim 650(have not started working on her yet) Posts: 79	but do you think thats gonna have any effect on my problem with taking off in low RPMs

September 11th, 2010, 03:33 PM	#100
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	yes... that's what this mod does.

September 11th, 2010, 04:24 PM	#101
crackerjack slightly mechanical Name: vance Location: gulf breeze, Fl Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2001 ninja 250; 1981 yamaha maxim 650(have not started working on her yet) Posts: 79	so guess what, nowhere within 20 miles of me sells 3mm washers. guess im gonna have to try to order them online or something.

September 11th, 2010, 05:12 PM	#102
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	SAE #4 washers will work as well, but if you still can't find any... http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=55174

September 15th, 2010, 01:36 PM	#103
crackerjack slightly mechanical Name: vance Location: gulf breeze, Fl Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2001 ninja 250; 1981 yamaha maxim 650(have not started working on her yet) Posts: 79	kkim; i took the bike apart today because i got my 3mm washers in today. broke the carbs down and put 1 3mm washer under each needle. it seems to have helped but still isnt back to her old self. should i put another 3mm washer under each needle? i think im gonna try it. let ya know how it goes.

September 15th, 2010, 01:42 PM	#104
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	I think I put 2 washers under each needle on a friend's stock pregen. He likes his bike much more now.

September 15th, 2010, 02:47 PM	#105
crackerjack slightly mechanical Name: vance Location: gulf breeze, Fl Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2001 ninja 250; 1981 yamaha maxim 650(have not started working on her yet) Posts: 79	i put a second 3mm washer under each needle and its almost perfect. has any ever tried to put a 3rd washer under? or is that too much? thanks for all your help

September 15th, 2010, 02:52 PM	#106
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	it gets better... after you decide how many washers work best for you (yeah, try another one and see how you like it), you need to recheck the mixture screw settings and then sync the carbs. (or is it sync the carbs then play w/ the mixture screws... i forget) hows the top end of the bike... does it pull all the way to redline cleanly?

September 15th, 2010, 02:59 PM	#107
crackerjack slightly mechanical Name: vance Location: gulf breeze, Fl Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2001 ninja 250; 1981 yamaha maxim 650(have not started working on her yet) Posts: 79	i think its sync carbs then play with mixture screws but top end is fine and smooth, only problem i had with it with 2 washers was i took off and went about 5 feet to end of my driveway and pulled in the clutch(traffic) to stop and it died. but i cranked it up and took her around the block and it seemed fine. the bike still doesnt take me off like it used to i still have to give it throttle to get it to take me off. ill resync the carbs and play with the mixture screw a little bit before i put another washer in, see if that has any effect first. but still it seems alot better i am waiting on a new cover for the coasting enricher and that may fix her completely its soo close to back to normal

September 15th, 2010, 03:09 PM	#108
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	keep in mind once you put a new costing enricher in and the bike reacts differently, you need to reexamine your jetting at that time. right now, you may be compensating for something that's wrong (coasting enricher) with the jetting. That is why jetting should be done last after the bike is whole and healthy and modding to the intake and exhaust has been completed or you run the risk of having to rejet every time a change is made to the engine.

September 15th, 2010, 03:40 PM	#109
crackerjack slightly mechanical Name: vance Location: gulf breeze, Fl Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2001 ninja 250; 1981 yamaha maxim 650(have not started working on her yet) Posts: 79	i havent done any jetting, unless putting washers under the needles is considered "jetting". im still sitting with all stock jets. but all im doing to the coasting enricher is putting on a new cap, so if anything the only thing i think that would be effected by doing this would be my bike dying when i come to a stop, but im not sure. the only thing that got "fixed" when i put rtv silicone around the coasting enricher was it helped with me coming to a stop, it had no effect on take off what so ever.

September 15th, 2010, 04:01 PM	#110
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	I consider anything you do to change the air/fuel ratio that the carb supplies the engine, rejetting, so yes, shimming, in my book, falls under the term of jetting. the problem with the siliconed coasting enricher right is that you have no idea if the fix you did solved all of the leak that was obviously happening. once you get the cover in and can be assured it isn't leaking any further, then you can be sure the jetting you're doing is on a healthy engine.

September 24th, 2010, 04:15 PM	#111
crackerjack slightly mechanical Name: vance Location: gulf breeze, Fl Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2001 ninja 250; 1981 yamaha maxim 650(have not started working on her yet) Posts: 79	so adding the shims to the needles didnt really change the performance of the bike as i wanted, the bike still doesnt like low rpms under 7k. i am still waiting on the coasting enricher cap($38). i just saw online a local 2001 250(my same year bike) that is being parted out. do you think i should just purchase the carbs off of that bike(as long as i go check it out and make sure it is in good condition) for $100 instead? i am still no closer in figuring out what the problem with my bike is, but i think that if i get another set of carbs i could atleast narrow down where the problem is.

September 24th, 2010, 04:19 PM	#112
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	sure, that wouldn't be a bad idea and would aid greatly in troubleshooting. I'm sure you could sell parts off the carbs once you're done to make back a part of of the money. people are always looking for untorn diaphragms. I've seen carbs for a pregen go for about half of that on Ebay, though.