2001 not taking off in first gear

[crackerjack]

Originally Posted by kkim

just for future reference... how did you resolve this?

after searching the web and talking with twowheel guy, the outcome was forget the 1T and 2T marks and just get the lobes in the right position and adjust them individually. thats what he said and to make sure i did a full night of research (about 6 hrs) and found multiple sites/videos that that confirmed you dont have to have them in TDC-the 1T and 2T mark to adjust them properly, just make sure the lobes are opposite the rockers to measure and adjust

[kkim]

so, essentially, the manual is wrong?

[crackerjack]

Originally Posted by kkim

sounds to me like the pilot circuit is still clogged up. how does it run w/ the choke fully on?

how does it start from a cold start?

full battery charge: still starts from cold good; full choke brings her up to about 6.5k - 7k RPMs

it will let me take off with full choke on but still doesnt let me take off with under 5k RPMs(under 5k it takes me maybe 2ft and it sounds like it boggs and then dies)

in the morning im gonna take the carbs completely apart again and clean everything out again

[kkim]

needless to say, remove the pilot jets and pay particular attention to the pilot jets themselves and the passageways to which they screw into. blow th passageways out with compressed air from the engine side of the carb in towards the carb body.

also, double check your diaphragms closely to make sure they are not pinched or have tears.

lastly, recheck the float levels and try shaking the floats to make sure they aren't full of fuel.

[crackerjack]

Originally Posted by kkim

so, essentially, the manual is wrong?

i donno, i saw a youtube video of someone adjusting their valves(on my exact same bike) and when they turned it to the 1T mark their lobes were facing each other(like mine) but that contradicts what my manual says: my manual says that they should face away from each other(one lobe facing intake and one lobe facing exhaust)

but like i said i found multiple FAQ sites that said that the 1T and 2T marks for adjusting are really confusing and the easiest way to do it is just turn the crank until they are in the position you want them and adjust them individually

im really confused about it as well; when i took her for a test ride after i adjusted the valves everything seemed to be normal if not better than before

i hope i didnt mess anything up; but i dont think i did

[kkim]

If you did what Craig recommended, I wouldn't worry about it being messed up. He knows his stuff.

[crackerjack]

Originally Posted by kkim

needless to say, remove the pilot jets pay particular attention to the pilot jets themselves and the passageways to which they screw into. blow th passageways out with compressed air from the engine side of the carb in towards the carb body.

also, double check your diaphragms closely to make sure they are not pinched or have tears.

lastly, recheck the float levels and try shaking the floats to make sure they aren't full of fuel.

i dont have much experience with motorcycles but in my opinion i think its my pilot screw(fuel/air mixture screw) not being adjusted correctly(even tho i adjusted them to the specs in my manual; lightly seated and 2-1/2 turns out.

[crackerjack]

Originally Posted by kkim

If you did what Craig recommended, I wouldn't worry about it being messed up. He knows his stuff.

yea twowheelguy(craig?) told me not to worry about the TDC marks and just get them in the right position and adjust from there.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by crackerjack

i dont have much experience with motorcycles but in my opinion i think its my pilot screw(fuel/air mixture screw) not being adjusted correctly(even tho i adjusted them to the specs in my manual; lightly seated and 2-1/2 turns out.

okay, if you feel it's them, back them out some to richen the mixture or screw them in to lean it out. try 1/2 turn at a time to see if adjusting them makes any difference at all.

can't hurt, just keep track of where you set it to so you can get it back to the original settings when you're through.

[crackerjack]

Originally Posted by kkim

okay, if you feel it's them, back them out some to richen the mixture or screw them in to lean it out. try 1/2 turn at a time to see if adjusting them makes any difference at all.

can't hurt, just keep track of where you set it to so you can get it back to the original settings when you're through.

when i adjusted my valves today i took out the spark plugs (put in less than a week ago) and they were slightly black, nothing too serious but definitely not new looking, would that indicate im running too rich? possibly too rich for the low rpms? should i start by screwing them in to lean it a little more?

i feel like i wanna play with that a little before i take the carbs out again, and if i mess it up then i can set em back to factory setting easier with the carbs off than i can with them on the bike

[kkim]

if you've been starting the bike and just idling around w/o putting any type of load on the engine, I wouldn't be surprised if the plugs were black/sooty. were they wet with fuel or oily looking or a dry black color? any signs of carbon buildup that could indicate fouling?

btw, what plugs did you use?

adjust the mixture screws both ways and see if turning them in any direction helps the problem you're having. IMHO, it's not your problem as 2 1/2 turns is in the ballpark and you should be able to at least idle w/o the bike dying.

you have adjusted the idle speed control knob to idle at about 1500 rpm after the bike has been fully warmed up, right?

[crackerjack]

Originally Posted by kkim

if you've been starting the bike and just idling around w/o putting any type of load on the engine, I wouldn't be surprised if the plugs were black/sooty. were they wet with fuel or oily looking or a dry black color? any signs of carbon buildup that could indicate fouling?

btw, what plugs did you use?

adjust the mixture screws both ways and see if turning them in any direction helps the problem you're having. IMHO, it's not your problem as 2 1/2 turns is in the ballpark and you should be able to at least idle w/o the bike dying.

you have adjusted the idle speed control knob to idle at about 1500 rpm after the bike has been fully warmed up, right?

i have driven the bike up to the gas staion, 1-1/2 miles away, three times. it was a dry sooty/black look; not wet or oily or any build up that i could tell.

i am using NGK CR8HSA plugs(thats what i read i should use) the old ones that were in the bike when i got it were NGK C7HSA.

i have the bike idle around 2k, a little less most of the time, but i havent looked at the idle when the bike was warm(because i havent really had it fully warmed up)

the bike idles just fine(it takes 1-5 sec. for it to catch idle)

the problem is when i drop it down into first, i used to be able to let off the clutch slowly and it would take me a few feet, such as to the end of my driveway, then i could give gas and take off. but now if i drop it into first and let out the clutch at all without having 5k rpms it sputters and dies.

[kkim]

is your air cleaner element clean? as an experiment, try removing it from the airbox and see if the bike improves. nothing long, just around the block will do.

are the jets in the carbs stock sizes?

[crackerjack]

Originally Posted by kkim

is your air cleaner element clean? as an experiment, try removing it from the airbox and see if the bike improves. nothing long, just around the block will do.

are the jets in the carbs stock sizes?

the element looks clean(its not even 4 months old), i will try that in the morning tho;

as far as the jets i would assume they are the stock jets( i have not verified that), there are no mods to my bike(so i would assume they are stock), but i dont know if the previous(previous) owner changed them or not(thinking it would improve anything), the guy i bought it from got given the bike by one of his buddies who had to ship out over seas and had no knowledge of the bike what so ever.( he actually thought it was a 500 instead of a 250)

[kkim]

if/when you work on the carbs next, check the jets. they have numbers lightly engraved on them that tell you what size they are. It's always good to know what's in the bike, especially when you're not the original owner.

lemme know how the bike runs w/o the filter element in it. also when you're near the airbox, check for loose hoses and clamps around the airbox and carbs. something fishy is going on.

[crackerjack]

whenever i bought the bike it was in the guys garage with everything except the headlight, radiator, carbs and engine taken off the bike. he had a big pile of nuts and bolts and such, as i was putting it all back together i noticed it only had 1 of the 8 airbox screws. so i only have one screw and the airbox cover keeping the airbox together( drove fine like that after i got it put back together) but do you think it missing 7 of the 8 airbox screws has anything to do with it? i am also missing like 3 metal clamps to hold on the hoses( but up until now i havent had any problems.

think any of that could be the fish?

[crackerjack]

also this little fella has one of the screw holes(that the screw goes through) the bottom is broken off, but there was still enough on the top side of the screw hole for me to think i got it down tight enough. not sure if theres a small air leak there or not. i havent noticed it whistling or releasing air or anything

[bob706]

How far out of spec were the valves?

[crackerjack]

Originally Posted by bob706

How far out of spec were the valves?

they were pretty tight, all of them needed to be loosened.

i adjusted them accordingly but am still having the same problems(it might be slightly better now though.

[bob706]

It has to be a carb issue then. Do you have an air compressor? If not I have a small one I can bring over tonight. Also you may want to try running a bit of Seafoam through the carbs. I may have a can of that lying around also. Let me know

[crackerjack]

ive got a big air compressor but i cant find my attachments for it

im gonna take the air filter out like kkim suggested and see what happens, if it doesnt help im gonna play around with the pilot screws, if that doesnt work im gonna take the carbs back apart again

ill keep ya updated
thanks.

[crackerjack]

Originally Posted by bob706

It has to be a carb issue then. Do you have an air compressor? If not I have a small one I can bring over tonight. Also you may want to try running a bit of Seafoam through the carbs. I may have a can of that lying around also. Let me know

i can still ride it, and an auto part store is like 5 miles away so i can pick up my own bottle of Seafoam; i try not to take from others if i can avout it

[bob706]

Originally Posted by crackerjack

i can still ride it, and an auto part store is like 5 miles away so i can pick up my own bottle of Seafoam; i try not to take from others if i can avout it

It's not a problem. If you do use some seafoam just use a little. That stuff will have your bike smoking up the whole place. If I can help just ask.

[mrlmd]

It doesn't help to post the same problem in 2 threads - it leads to confusion and redundancy trying to answer you. You also may have to wait a day to get responses, it's not instantaneous.
Any way to combine these 2 threads to make it easier on everyone?

[kkim]

Originally Posted by crackerjack

also this little fella has one of the screw holes(that the screw goes through) the bottom is broken off, but there was still enough on the top side of the screw hole for me to think i got it down tight enough. not sure if theres a small air leak there or not. i havent noticed it whistling or releasing air or anything

what is that?

[Alex]

Originally Posted by mrlmd

Any way to combine these 2 threads to make it easier on everyone?

Yup, good call.

/threads merged

[crackerjack]

Originally Posted by Alex

Yup, good call.

/threads merged

sorry someone else said i should try to open up a new thread and see if it hets better results

[Alex]

No worries - it seems that people started following both of them at the same time, and while it might not seem like it, getting better results happens when all the relevant content is in one place. Not only helps with the current problem, but makes it easier for people in the future to find threads that have the whole story and hopefully with included solutions. Hope it works out!

[crackerjack]

Originally Posted by kkim

what is that?

that little fella is on the side of my carbs and is called an air cut vavle, im to qute sure what exactly it does

thats how mine is broken theres still a lip on the top half thats the screw holds onto but only slightly

[crackerjack]

so far:

-valves are adjusted within spec
-carbs were overhauled and cleaned: new floats, float needles, bowl gaskets, pilot screws(with in spec), and i replaced all the hoses on it
-carbs have been synced
-running seafoam through it
-tried without the airfilter- with no change

anything else i can try?

[kkim]

ah, okay... couldn't place it from your pic, but isn't it also known as a coasting enrichener? if so... http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_a_c...a_Closed_Mouth

if yours is not functioning properly, that could well be the source of your problem.

[crackerjack]

Originally Posted by kkim

ah, okay... couldn't place it from your pic, but isn't it also known as a coasting enrichener? if so... http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_a_c...a_Closed_Mouth

if yours is not functioning properly, that could well be the source of your problem.

but would that cause the problems im having trying to take off from a dead stop/start off?

[kkim]

if it's affecting the vacuum to the carb diaphragms, it could.

[crackerjack]

Originally Posted by kkim

if it's affecting the vacuum to the carb diaphragms, it could.

understandable, but its been like that the whole time ive had the bike, and is always worked before
but i do wanna get a new cover and guts for it anyway

[kkim]

Originally Posted by crackerjack

understandable, but its been like that the whole time ive had the bike, and is always worked before

maybe the crack got worse and it's leaking more now? I dunno... you're looking for a cause why the bike doesn't run properly, I think you should fix anything broken that can possibly have any affect on the bike to rule them out.

[crackerjack]

i agree i am shopping as we speak

[kkim]

how bad is the leak/crack? maybe you can seal it up with some RTV/superglue until a new part arrives or to experiment?

[crackerjack]

i just talked to my friend/local mechaninc show and they said that may caues problems but it would only cause problems when letting off the throttle, not when im trung to take off.

[kkim]

okay.

[crackerjack]

side note my jets are the right size