October 18th, 2012, 03:38 PM | #161 |
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Also, what is that hole on the left side of the engine that goes into cylinder 1 for....That IS supposed to be there right?
I know you can buy 2 or 3 different types of the rings, what's the difference? |
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October 18th, 2012, 03:40 PM | #162 |
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Is this issue a common thing on these bikes? If so who wants to buy it? I'd like to ride a bike that likes the way I ride it!
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October 18th, 2012, 05:18 PM | #163 |
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Yes that hole is supposed to be there. I think it's for drainage or something since it's on the downhill side of the bike when it's on the side stand. There's an explanation somewhere but I forget. Long story short, that hole is fine. .
I still don't think you were at 2T, but as long as you have the right number of links between marks on your cam gears and you haven't messed with the cams at all, you're good. |
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October 18th, 2012, 06:35 PM | #164 | |
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Quote:
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October 18th, 2012, 06:35 PM | #165 | |
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If the marks are off, valves cannot be opening and closing at the right moment respect to the position of the crankshaft. Remember that this is a four-stroke; hence, it takes two turns of the crankshaft to turn the camshafts once. There are two TDCs': one between exhaust and intake strokes and another between compression and work strokes. http://www.animatedengines.com/otto.html Leak test must be run for each cylinder at a position for which all the valves of that cylinder are closed.
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October 18th, 2012, 06:44 PM | #166 |
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October 18th, 2012, 06:53 PM | #167 |
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October 18th, 2012, 07:01 PM | #168 |
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"A hissing noise at the carburetor manifold indicated a leak at the intake valve(s).
Hissing at the exhaust, leaking exhaust valve(s). Hissing at the oil fill or at the engine breather tube, leaking past the rings."
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October 19th, 2012, 02:08 PM | #169 |
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Just did the leakdown test again and cylinder 2 tests fine at ~ 35% leakage but cylinder one is still leaking.
I ran the first test on cylinder one and it showed a moderate leak @ 55% but after running the test a 2nd time (I can't remember if I rotated the engine) the test came out to be 80% leak and as I confirmed the rockers were facing each other I hear the air coming out of the petcock vacuum hose. Does this mean my intake valves are too loose?!?! I did set them towards the looser end maybe I didn't feel them out right????? I'm going to set them a little tighter and see if that doesn't fix the problem. I hope the valve isn't damaged. The tough part is I had planned a valve clearance alignment the same day I started having the problems!!!! And why would my engine run if the valves were bad then all of a sudden stop working??? I guess that little 2 minute period did them in??? I think a valve job would be way easier than replacing the rings right?? Last futzed with by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng; October 19th, 2012 at 03:09 PM. |
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October 19th, 2012, 03:07 PM | #170 |
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Ok, I am still running leak down tests because I am finding interesting things.
You can disregard my previous measurements as the leakage % changes as the air pressure does. I think more air pressure = greater accuracy. Tell me if I've done something stupid. I unscrewed the intake valve adjusters on cyl 1 and backed them all the way out in order to eliminate the possibility of air leaking because the valves were not seating. I am right in thinking this correct? Every time cylinder 1 is either at 1F or 1T it says the engine is fine (low leak ~20%) but air is pouring out of the petcock vacuum. Is this ok? I think the valves are fully seated so therefore the only escape is through the petcock vacuum hose correct? If the above is true ( engine at 1F and 1T both seal air) is my cylinder fine? Did I just do the adjustment out of spec? The above post (#169) where I state the leakage changes can be explained by the change in air compression. Each time I am running the test air is leaking and draining the tank on my air compressor. So the less air available will show a higher leak rate, or at least I'm pretty sure of it. |
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October 19th, 2012, 03:31 PM | #171 |
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Looks like with the rocker lobes facing away at 1T the air holds, with the rocker lobes facing inward at 1T their is a moderate leak.... it might just be the exhaust advancing a little bit......
Whatever the case I am going to try and start her now..... crossed fingers |
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October 19th, 2012, 04:48 PM | #172 |
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Won't start with new valve adjustments + new plugs.
Won't start with fresh gas + new plugs. I am done working on this for today. Looks like I'll be taking it apart sometime this weekend. Wee let the fun begin. I just want the problem to be totally recognizable. It seems one of the valves has gone bad, coincidentally right as I plan to do the alignment. |
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October 19th, 2012, 04:50 PM | #173 |
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Does anyone have a link to the flywheel diagram with explanations? I just realized how close 1F and 1T were today.....
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October 19th, 2012, 08:49 PM | #174 | |
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Quote:
However, the timing for the valves is as follows: Inlet valves open at 30 degrees before Top Dead Center Inlet valves close at 70 degrees after Bottom Dead Center Exhaust valves open at 70 degrees before Bottom Dead Center Exhaust valves close at 30 degrees after Top Dead Center All valves are open during 280 degrees in a symmetrical way. http://www.cdxetextbook.com/engines/...ngdiagram.html
Link to original page on YouTube.
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October 20th, 2012, 06:03 PM | #175 |
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Can I remove/replace the valves without taking the engine out??
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October 20th, 2012, 06:27 PM | #176 |
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Yes; the tank and radiator need to be removed and the coolant needs to be drained.
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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October 21st, 2012, 10:10 AM | #177 |
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Is it ok to replace just one valve or do they need to be as a set?
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October 21st, 2012, 10:39 AM | #178 |
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One is OK.
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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October 21st, 2012, 02:12 PM | #179 |
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Make sure you don't drop any small parts into the engine. That can be a real pain in the butt to have to fish parts out of your engine.
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October 28th, 2012, 06:08 PM | #180 |
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I dropped a rocker arm down into the chain funnel. I can't seem to see it anywhere. Can I just drop the oil filter down and have it fall out?
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October 28th, 2012, 06:13 PM | #181 |
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Ok, so I finally took my cylinder head off. I don't know what to look for exactly so I'm hoping these pics will help. Feel free to browse the photobucket album for the other pics. http://s799.photobucket.com/albums/y...90/Motorcycle/
I also found red gasoline when I drained the fuel from the tank going into the carbs. Is this rust? The fuel in the carb bowls were normal color.... |
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October 28th, 2012, 06:15 PM | #182 |
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I am letting the oil drain out of the head before I disassemble the valves...
The cylinder walls are smooth and shiny as can be. The piston rings all seem to be just fine..... |
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October 28th, 2012, 06:21 PM | #183 |
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October 28th, 2012, 06:36 PM | #184 |
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Can I take a wire brush to these piston heads? Is it safe to turn the engine over at this point?
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October 28th, 2012, 07:55 PM | #185 |
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Yes.
The red gas is most likely rust. What does he inside of the tank look like? What does the gas in the carb bowls look like? Rusty gas will not will not ignite correctly and is part of the problem. Make sure to flush the fuel lines and clean the carbs before reassembly. Make sure that tank is clean, and think about sealing it with red kote or a similar product. I have had success with por15 as well, my roommate swears by kream.. Also, before reassembly make sure the gasket surfaces are completely clean!! Use some paint stripper on the stuck on gasket and wait a couple of minutes then scrub with a nylon brissled brush. No matter what you do, do not score these mating surfaces. |
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October 28th, 2012, 08:34 PM | #186 | |
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Quote:
I think the inside of the tank has flakes of rust floating I'm not sure. I will def. get the tank cleaned out once I have her running again. The fuel in the carbs was fine. How do I clean the piston heads? Is it too sensitive to use a wire brush? |
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October 29th, 2012, 09:00 AM | #187 |
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You can use a wire brush to clean the piston heads. Just be careful and remember it is way easier to take off more carbon than to put back some metal. I would suggest soaking the bores/piston tops with seafoam to help break up the carbon if you do decide to remove it.
I'm not totally familiar with the internals of this motor, but it should be safe to turn the engine with the tensioner removed. Just don't let the cam chain fall into the block. Cleaning the tank is easy!. Check out this method. |
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October 29th, 2012, 12:07 PM | #188 |
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Learning how to use the valve spring compressor tool now.....seems way harder than I thought it would be... I put it on (fit over two, but not over one) compressed it many times with much resistance, and nothing happened.
So far the carbon is coming off decently well. |
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October 29th, 2012, 12:52 PM | #189 |
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Look real good. While you've got the pistons out you mine as well check if they're within spec. You should do new rings and hone the cylinders before reassembly as well.
When using the valve compressor are you able to push the valve up towards you while the spring is compressed? That is the only way the colletes will come out.. Got some pics? |
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October 29th, 2012, 04:43 PM | #190 | |
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I'm on a budget and doing this strictly to get the bike back up and running as I am lowwww on cash and in need of a job. |
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October 29th, 2012, 04:45 PM | #191 |
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New set of rings are $41...
Is it possible my low compression was mostly due to the carbon buildup on the pistons? |
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October 29th, 2012, 04:48 PM | #192 | |
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Quote:
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October 29th, 2012, 04:54 PM | #193 |
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Update: Ok looks like I'm not gonna be ordering much since everything is ridiculously expensive. I may try to reseat the valves I have at the bike shop but I cannot afford all new valves at the moment.
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October 29th, 2012, 06:48 PM | #194 | |
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However, carbon can build up between the rings and their piston's seats, compromising their elasticity to press against the walls of the cylinder and to slide up and down within the seats. Did you put some fuel inside the chambers to see what valve leaks? "Last thing. We want to test our work. Turn the head so the combustion chamber is up and level. Fill the chamber with solvent or gas. Let it set a minute or two and then shine a light up the exhaust and intake ports. Look for leaks or wetness. There should be none. If there is, take the offending valve back apart and relap it. Then put it together and test it again. The solvent will find the slightest leak. We want NO leaks." http://www.dansmc.com/valve.htm http://www.dansmc.com/pistons.htm http://www.dansmc.com/hone_cyl.htm
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October 29th, 2012, 07:19 PM | #195 | |
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Should I lap all the valves? |
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October 29th, 2012, 07:31 PM | #196 |
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I would do only what is needed, based on your current situation.
Follow the old principle: If it is working, don't fix it. Rather than putting a lot of money on an old bike, I would bike a newer bike with minor problems, or just find a replacing used engine. The strong carbon build up comes from using non-synthetic oil and running the bike for short periods and low speeds, not reaching and keeping high temperatures. How did you clean the pistons?
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October 29th, 2012, 07:35 PM | #197 |
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Right side is front(exhaust), left side is rear (intake)
The gunk exhaust side Cylinder 1 intake valve (1) Cylinder 1 intake valve (2) |
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October 29th, 2012, 07:36 PM | #198 | |
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Hoping this will fix it |
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October 29th, 2012, 07:51 PM | #199 |
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Wow, you have a lot of cleaning to do.
Check that those rings are loose in the pistons. Try not scratching the aluminum surfaces, especially the valve's seats. Great work, Justin !
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October 29th, 2012, 08:00 PM | #200 |
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