where do I start to see if it starts?

[Finesse]

hey guys

I have a 1988 that's been sitting for 3 years. I want to see if the engine is potentially worth saving. it has 37,000 miles on it and the last owner said it was running before it went into storage for 3 years. no idea if he's telling the truth or not. there is a lot of rust and cruddy stuff on the top of it.

I know I need a fuel source and an ignition source to test it... but I honestly have no idea how to go about getting these things together and hooking them up properly to see if the engine will turn over. can someone point me in the right direction...?

can I just use the battery from my (running) '99 250 for my ignition source? how and where do I hook that up? and how do I get fuel into the engine without it being attached to the bike?

I'M SUCH A NOOB any help is much appreciated

I have a friend who's gonna help me with this who conveniently did an associates in auto tech so I'm not on my own with this but we haven't had a chance to look at it yet and I just wanna know the basic simplified steps of what I'm looking at ... any basic info on how the fuel system works in laymans terms..

cheers

[Motofool]

Is the engine in the bike?

[Finesse]

right now yes.

but assume NOTHING works on this bike. it's trashed. when we took the fuel lines apart we saw that they were all cracked and frayed. the tank is covered in a very thick layer of rust inside.

I think today we are going to take the engine out of the bike so I can take apart everything and drive the pieces home in my car (it is in a storage unit that we are going to stop leasing in April)

should I leave the engine in the bike, would that make it easier even assuming that nothing on the bike works? it may as well just be sitting on the ground considering the condition of this bike..

**the fuel tank is not on the bike now

[alex.s]

i don't know how the best way to transport it is, i would just use a truck and not bother disassembling.


drain the oil and look at it. disgusting is fine, but you want to check for random things like nuts and bolts, sparkley bits, squirrels, etc. everything look ok and nothing shiny came out?

same thing with the coolant.

everything good so far?

take off the left side stator cover and crank the engine over by hand a few times. does it rotate? do you hear messed up grinding sounds? do you hear the swooshing compression sound? if it is too easy to rotate it might have no compression.

still good? take the spark plugs out and check on them, replace them if they are too far gone. did the spark plugs come out without breaking off? is there still a head on the spark plugs?

ok so if its still good put the covers back on, fluids back in the bike, but leave the plugs out, check on the battery and make sure it has a good charge (you'll probably have to replace it), now with the removed spark plug inserted into the plug boot, hold the plug against a piece of uncoated metal on the frame and crank the bike over a few times and watch the spark plug to make sure it sparks.

still good? put some new gas in, put the plugs back in, make sure gas is getting into the carbs (open a carb drain to check) then crank it over with the choke and see if it will fire up. chances are the carbs are clogged so it wont do much. if so try spraying some carb cleaner in the intake and crank it a couple times and see if it fires that up. if so you know you just have clogged carbs. if not maybe something else is wrong.


the carbs have a valve in them so you just need to have fuel going to the carb fuel inlet... a funnel with a hose maybe?

[jkv45]

I wouldn't take the engine out at this point.

What are your plans for it?

I would make sure the tank is completely clean on the inside before installing it. If there are rust issues I'd take care of it now.

Chances are you'll need to remove the carbs to clean them. If there was fuel left in the bowls when it was parked it has turned to varnish and gummed-up the jets and floatbowls. Follow the instructions on carb cleaning very closely or you won't do everything that's needed - and you'll have to start over. Read through this section before you start working on the carbs - http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Intake

A new set of plugs (NGKs) wouldn't hurt, and you could check for a spark before installing them by cranking it over with the plug resting on the engine. You should see and hear a strong arc.

The battery you have should work. Be sure it's fully charged (12.6V) before trying to start it. When you get everything back together and ready to go you'll need a strong battery. It will take some cranking to get fuel to flow from the petcock, so don't expect it to light right up with dry floatbowls.

I'd personally do a quick oil/filer change before starting it if the oil looks anything but very good. Even if it looked pretty good I'd still change it pretty quickly after getting it running. At least check the level before trying to start it.

You'll need to do other things once it running. Tires will most likely need to be replaced, fluids changed, chain adjusted, valves adjusted, carbs synced, etc... but concentrate on getting it going first.

[Finesse]

you guys are so optimistic.

the chain is dead, the sprockets are dead. the brake calipers are rusted and the brake pads are more rust than brake pad. the gas tank might be dead. the tires DEFINITELY need to go. the oil (that is currently leaking from the bike) is nearly black. I will drain it today and see what I get. there are about three tablespoons of coolant left in the reservoir and they are the color of seaweed. I am sure the plugs are done as well.

this is what the exhaust looks like (no worries I have exhaust from my '99 after I replaced it with 2 bros) and the hole where one side of the header goes...

[Finesse]

I bought it for the upper fairing and the red wheels but I ended up keeping the black wheels on my bike. I got it for $300 so I wouldn't say I paid too much lol. I just saw an 06 on craigslist for $400 with a blown engine but the rest of the parts are there and working. so if this engine works I might snatch up that 06, swap the engine and frame, get it labeled as a historic bike and skip the inspection process.

otherwise I just want to use it as a learning experience, and if it's not salvageable then that's fine, I'll just tear it apart even more.

[alex.s]

blown oil skirts or maybe bad valve guides

or it was hanging out in a swamp maybe.

probably a dead engine

[Finesse]

well I'm off to dig a little deeper, I'll try and take some pics and let you guys know what I find. thank you for the advice, very helpful!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Finesse

well I'm off to dig a little deeper, I'll try and take some pics and let you guys know what I find. thank you for the advice, very helpful!

Being in the bike, the engine may be easier to manipulate, level (for oil level) and test, even when the peripheral systems are not working.

All that external rust that you see over the bike could be superficial and not affecting the internals of the engine; how much water has penetrated into the engine (oil side and coolant side) is the key.

Rotating the crankshaft and the gear selector by hand will tell you if some parts are hitting each other.
Some drops of oil into the open holes of the spark plugs may help detach frozen rings from cylinders' walls (where some rust may be present).

Opening the valve cover is a must, in order to see how the valves slide and the cams rotate and to lubricate those parts by hand before attempting any start up.

The cam chain tensioner will need service and lubrication.

Carburetors cannot work as they are now, that is another deep surgery to perform.

If plugs, bolts and nuts are too hard to be removed, some soaking time with Marvel Oil+Acetone will be needed.
Especially the spark plugs and any thread into aluminum may have developed a molecular corrosion and aluminum will be easy to damage if excessive force is applied.

The electrical parts on the left side may be OK, or not if humidity or water have done some damage to them.

[alex.s]

you can tell hernan lives in florida... all that rust!!

[Finesse]

we have florida weather in the summer. 90s and very humid.

so I worked on the bike a little bit today but I didn't end up draining the oil because I didn't have a container large enough for all 2 liters (assuming there are 2 liters in there). I took off all the wiring and some other odds and ends... I drained the coolant and then got distracted chatting with my buddy so not a lot happened today. I worked on getting the front sprocket and front brake and swing arm off but was unsuccessful in all of these endeavours. I'll get a bigger container for the oil and keep at it (this time with a leverage bar, because apparently my entire weight of 105lb isnt enough to break some bolts loose...)

I'm thinking the engine is not repairable. it looks worse every time I see it. the coolant actually looked okay though.

[jkv45]

I guess I'm not following - are you planning to ride it or part it out?

Why do you think the engine is junk? Does it spin over?

Why did you remove all the wiring? Don't you want to get it running?

Did you get a Title with it? If not, then it is a parts bike.

[Finesse]

so I drained the oil today...it was the consistency of a milkshake and it smelled like the very depths of hell.

pretty sure the bike is trashed. I'm going to tear the engine apart anyway just for fun and sell what parts are salvageable.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Finesse

so I drained the oil today...it was the consistency of a milkshake and it smelled like the very depths of hell...........

Do not dismay !!!

That milkshake is nothing but an emulsion of water and oil.
That can be simply rain water that managed to leak in during all that sad non-working time.
Internal parts do not have to be necessarily rusted or damaged because of that; oil still gave some protection.

Total disassemble may not be the best idea, if you hope making it work again.