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Old February 25th, 2014, 12:30 PM   #1
tkessler
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Question 2007 Ninja 250 wont start...any suggestions?

Hi folks, new here but been lurking for a while...

I've got a 2007 Ninja 250 that's got 800 miles on it, but was stored for about 4-5 months and recently would only start up when the choke is on full, after which it would rev to ~5000RPM and then go down and up between that and ~3000RPM.

I could eventually nudge the choke off a little and reduce the RPMs to ~1000-2000, but it would still rev up and down randomly, sometimes going to 3000, and then down under 1000.

At any point, if I turned off the choke, it would die. Additionally, if I gave it throttle it would die. However, if I gave it throttle when at ~5000RPM it would sometimes catch up and rev to higher RPMs, responding to throttle normally.

I also found that if I milked it slowly at lower RPMs, that I could sometimes slowly lift the RPMs to higher values where it would then respond normally, but more often when doing this it would just die.

I figured this was from dirty carbs from being stored, so I took them out and sprayed them out with Seafoam. I didnt completely disassemble them, but exposed the jets and sprayed the seafoam through, seeing it squirt out through the main jet holes, pilot jets, and other openings and crevices, etc.

I then reassembled the thing, but now it wont start at all...just turns over until the battery dies (it was nearly dead already, and only gives me a few revs before clicking). Granted I need to charge the battery and give it a go, but are there any suggestions for what to do besides this? I've opened the petcock to the prime position, but the thing simply does not fire.

Could it be that the battery is so low that all the juice is going to the starter and not firing the spark plugs (I doubt this, but its what's going through my mind right now). I successfully push-started the thing after taking it out of storage, which is when I found it would only start on full choke, etc.

I did somewhat soak the carbs with seafoam, so could having residual seafoam covering things be a cause?

Thanks for any suggestions you might have.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 12:58 PM   #2
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The jets, especially the pilot jet, are still partially plugged.

The jets and jet holders need to be removed and cleaned thoroughly by inserting a small brass or copper wire through the jet and all the holes in the holder. Spray carb cleaner through them and spin the jet around the wire to make sure they are fully open.

Also make sure the battery is fully charged and in good condition. A fully charged 12V battery should read 12.7V after any surface charge is gone. 12.0V is only about 25% charged. Cranking voltage should stay very close to 12.0V if the battery is strong.

Make sure the gas is very fresh, and dump any in the tank if there's a chance it's not. Use Ethanol-free gas if you can get it.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 01:20 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkessler View Post
Hi folks, new here but been lurking for a while...

Thanks for any suggestions you might have.
Welcome to our site, Topher !!!

Besides the above good advise, please verify that the carbs are being supplied with a good flow of fuel.

There is a tiny fuel filter inside the end of the supply hose, which may be clogged.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 01:46 PM   #4
tkessler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
The jets, especially the pilot jet, are still partially plugged.

The jets and jet holders need to be removed and cleaned thoroughly by inserting a small brass or copper wire through the jet and all the holes in the holder. Spray carb cleaner through them and spin the jet around the wire to make sure they are fully open.

Also make sure the battery is fully charged and in good condition. A fully charged 12V battery should read 12.7V after any surface charge is gone. 12.0V is only about 25% charged. Cranking voltage should stay very close to 12.0V if the battery is strong.

Make sure the gas is very fresh, and dump any in the tank if there's a chance it's not. Use Ethanol-free gas if you can get it.
Would having residual Seafoam in the jet cause a problem? The spray goes through the holes perfectly fine, so they dont appear to be obstructed at all.

I'll take the thing apart again, but kinda dont want to if it can be avoided.

Is the copper wire just for pushing through the jet from the float side, or are their any hidden holes to deal with, or things to scrape around?

I'll try for now to charge the battery fully (its basically dead right now), and then see if fresh gas will work, ensuring the carbs are properly drained and then primed with fresh fuel. Do you think I should put any Seafoam in the new fuel before filling the tank, to ensure the seafoam mixture is in the carbs when it initially starts up, or leave it without seafoam for starters?
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Old February 25th, 2014, 01:49 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
Welcome to our site, Topher !!!

Besides the above good advise, please verify that the carbs are being supplied with a good flow of fuel.

There is a tiny fuel filter inside the end of the supply hose, which may be clogged.
Thanks! Is the fuel pulled in under different pressure through the pilot jets vs through the main jets? I wonder if when choked its simply sucking harder, pulling past any obstructions, including fuel filter and clogged jets.

I've turned it on for a good 15 minutes with the choke on (as close to idle as possible). I was hoping that after it warmed up it would be better, but that was a no-go. However, it does say the fuel in the carbs was getting replaced...though since it was on choke it might have been simply sucking harder and replacing the fuel that way?

Thanks to both of you so far for your advice.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 01:53 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkessler View Post
Would having residual Seafoam in the jet cause a problem? The spray goes through the holes perfectly fine, so they dont appear to be obstructed at all.

I'll take the thing apart again, but kinda dont want to if it can be avoided.

Is the copper wire just for pushing through the jet from the float side, or are their any hidden holes to deal with, or things to scrape around?

I'll try for now to charge the battery fully (its basically dead right now), and then see if fresh gas will work, ensuring the carbs are properly drained and then primed with fresh fuel. Do you think I should put any Seafoam in the new fuel before filling the tank, to ensure the seafoam mixture is in the carbs when it initially starts up, or leave it without seafoam for starters?
I don't the Seafoam is causing the problems - unless there's way too much of it. It should be 1oz per gal IIRC.

Jets can appear clean, but have build-up on the inside that will cause problems. Running a fine copper wire through the opening and spinning the jet around it makes sure there's no deposits on the sides. Then spray with carb cleaner. When you remove the jet holder you'll see there are small cross-drilled holes that get plugged easily. The Pilot has similar holes.

I wouldn't add anything to the fresh gas at this point.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 02:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
I don't the Seafoam is causing the problems - unless there's way too much of it. It should be 1oz per gal IIRC.

Jets can appear clean, but have build-up on the inside that will cause problems. Running a fine copper wire through the opening and spinning the jet around it makes sure there's no deposits on the sides. Then spray with carb cleaner. When you remove the jet holder you'll see there are small cross-drilled holes that get plugged easily. The Pilot has similar holes.

I wouldn't add anything to the fresh gas at this point.
Great! Will do. Last question for now...what gauge wire do you recommend? I dont have much around the house, and will likely need to go to the hardware store for it.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 02:22 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by tkessler View Post
Thanks! Is the fuel pulled in under different pressure through the pilot jets vs through the main jets? I wonder if when choked its simply sucking harder, pulling past any obstructions, including fuel filter and clogged jets...........
Thanks to both of you so far for your advice.
No, I didn't explain myself correctly.
I referred to the tank-petcock-fuel filter, which may be limiting the amount of fuel that reaches the bowls of the carbs (about 2 cc per second is plenty).

The fuel is pulled up through the different jets by the same low pressure created by the engine suction.
The choke is not such for this carburetor, it gives an additional fuel injection (enricher).
When you pull that "choke", you are opening a plunge that controls a fuel by-pass passage.

The specified level of the fuel inside the bowls is critical for a good functioning.

You are welcome.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 02:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkessler View Post
Great! Will do. Last question for now...what gauge wire do you recommend? I dont have much around the house, and will likely need to go to the hardware store for it.
If you have any standard home wire of the "stranded" type, you can remove 1 wire from the twisted strand and use that for the main jet and holes in the holder. The Pilot jet is smaller, so you'll need a smaller gauge - but i don't recall the exact size.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 04:02 PM   #10
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14-18 gauge copper wire.
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Old February 26th, 2014, 07:31 AM   #11
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Haven't messed with Ninja carbs yet, but have cleaned many other motorcycle carbs. In my experience, spray type carb cleaners only remove visible crud. They do almost nothing to clean the tiny passages within the carb, and these are critical for proper operation. Soaking only the metal parts (rubber and plastic will be destroyed) of the carb in Berryman's Chem Dip for 24-48 hours will usually get the carb clean. However, I know folks who had to soak their carb three or more times to get it clean. Sonic cleaners with the right solvent get the carb clean the first time, and in less than an hour. That's why I bought a sonic cleaner.

SeaFoam is not an aggressive carb cleaner. It takes time to remove deposits, and isn't suitable for really dirty carbs.

If a strong carb cleaner is used, there's no need to push wires through jets; they will already be clean. If a wire is needed to clean a jet, more than likely the rest of the carb isn't clean either.
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Old February 26th, 2014, 10:36 AM   #12
tkessler
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Hi folks, thanks for your excellent advice and feedback. The situation was definitely some sort of blockage in the carbs. I initially tried a quick and dirty cleaning, by only spraying in the carb cleaner and waiting an hour or so. Following the advice here, I took it apart again and did a thorough cleaning of the jets and ports, and let it sit overnight while I charged the battery.

Even though most of the parts looked clean and spotless, there must have been some small thing somewhere causing a problem 'cause after I popped it back in this morning, the thing lit up nicely, and with a few adjustments we're now purring like a kitten.

Thanks again for the tips, and I hope this helps someone else out there...nothing beats a thorough cleaning.
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