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Old May 15th, 2018, 09:54 AM   #1
tgold
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MOTM - Nov '15
Dropped a 300 Motor into my 250

I found a 300 Ninja motor with 1300 miles on it and I put it in my 250 racebike. I decided to keep it simple and use the carbs and the ignition rotor from the 250. Went to bigger main jets on the carbs. One thing of note: it is necessary to the ignition pickup from the 300 and splice it into the 250 wiring. This is because the 250 pickup winds up being just a little too close to the rotor if you try to use the 300 Ninja engine cover.

Carburetion seems to be in the ballpark with a 115 or 120 main jet. Maybe a litte fat, but I'll see when I do the tuning at Pittrace on Sunday.

Not sure if I like the clutch on the 300. Feels way too light at the lever. I'm considering throwing the whole assembly from my 250 motor in it. No need for a slipper clutch with this bike anyway and I'm skeptical of the 3 spring clutch being up to the job.

I'm also trying out some 125 slicks to see how they work on the bike. They save 6 pounds of weight over a set of A-13's in just about the best place possible. I have a set of A-13's waiting in the wings is the slicks don't work.

If I replace my several-times-repaired heavy-a** fairing I could get the total bike weight under 280lbs.
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Old May 15th, 2018, 12:13 PM   #2
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Wow... 280-lbs... Great work!!!
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Old May 15th, 2018, 12:17 PM   #3
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all engine mounts line up/ drop in?
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Old May 15th, 2018, 01:28 PM   #4
tgold
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MOTM - Nov '15
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick9611 View Post
all engine mounts line up/ drop in?
Piece of cake with the mounts.

The hardest thing was modifying my Area P exhaust to clear the oil filter. I had to cut the exhaust head pipes where they attach to the head and weld in a 3/4" section of tubing and reweld it back on to the header to get enough clearance. I also wrapped that section of the pipe with exhaust insulation wrap. Fortunately I have a TIG welder and the tubing in the right size at hand.

My advice would be to save a bunch of hassle and just buy a good aftermarket exhaust (like the Area P) that's made for the 300. That way you don't risk screwing up the tuning. I'll find out if I did whenever I put it on the dyno

All of the rest of the issues were very minor. I'll list them when I get a chance.
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Old May 15th, 2018, 05:08 PM   #5
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That is just awesome!
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Old May 15th, 2018, 05:11 PM   #6
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Great work, but man... The best part of the 300 was the fuel injection.
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Old May 15th, 2018, 05:13 PM   #7
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MOTM - Nov '17
Yeah, let’s see a dyno chart with AFR.
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Old May 16th, 2018, 05:44 AM   #8
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Nice work! Can't wait to see it.
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Old May 16th, 2018, 06:16 AM   #9
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is it possible to keep the FI?
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Old May 16th, 2018, 06:32 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by cbinker View Post
is it possible to keep the FI?
Yep, requires additional parts from 300 that didn’t come on 250:

- ECU
- harness
- throttle-bodies w/injectors
- fuel-pump
- tank conversion
- MAP, air-temp, coolant-temp, TPS sensors
- etc...

I made shopping list to convert pre-gen to EFI with Microsquirt and it’s quite extensive.
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Old May 16th, 2018, 05:46 PM   #11
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I love fuel injection . I work on it everyday as a technician. But carbs just plain old work. If you have FI keep it. Definilty better than carbs . But to convert to it. But a bike with it and go from there. Just my 1 cent. Maybe two.

Dying to see the dyno on this setup.
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Old May 16th, 2018, 10:32 PM   #12
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MOTM - Feb '18
but carbs have been around a long time. still amazed all it does. the real challenge is with pods trying to get the combo. great write up.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 10:29 AM   #13
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I'd like to compare dyno results when your done. I have 2 of these conversions, both carbureted. Your jetting sounds close.
Also, you can use the 250 flywheel and side cover if need be.

Last futzed with by bruce71198; May 18th, 2018 at 10:34 AM. Reason: left out info
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Old May 18th, 2018, 10:30 AM   #14
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Quote:
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I'd like to compare dyno results when your done. I have 2 of these conversions, both carbureted. Your jetting sounds close.
....and one nasty [good] 300+ cc custom right?
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Old May 18th, 2018, 10:46 AM   #15
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....and one nasty [good] 300+ cc custom right?
Yes, i've built several versions;315,335,346,354cc.
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Old May 30th, 2018, 09:12 AM   #16
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Any updates on the jetting?
I've got basically a 300 w/ carbs now. With K&N pods, 115 keihin MJ seemed good up top per but dyno. It was a bit off in the 7-10k range with 2 washers under the stock needles. I just changed to 3 washers and the ride around the neighborhood seemed a bit better.

I need to get mine to the dyno before Road America.
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Old May 30th, 2018, 11:14 AM   #17
tgold
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MOTM - Nov '15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Wolfe View Post
Any updates on the jetting?
I've got basically a 300 w/ carbs now. With K&N pods, 115 keihin MJ seemed good up top per but dyno. It was a bit off in the 7-10k range with 2 washers under the stock needles. I just changed to 3 washers and the ride around the neighborhood seemed a bit better.

I need to get mine to the dyno before Road America.
Worked ok at Pittrace. the bike doesn't need any choke to start. Throttle off the bottom is very abrupt, but it pulled fairly cleanly. I haven't done anything with the needle setting yet. I was bouncing off the rev limiter quite frequently in top gear, but a good part of the reason for that is the smaller diameter of the 125GP sized tires I used. However, I'm pretty sure my top speed was a good bit more than I've seen with the 250 motor. The endurance this weekend will be a good test.
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Old June 1st, 2018, 10:31 AM   #18
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@tgold,
Good luck with the endurance race! Please post more info on your 300 mod, my wife wants more power from her 250 and she does not fit well on larger bikes. Even the 300 ninja is a bit large for her and I have modified her 250 to her specs. Adding a 300 motor may be my next step so any further feedback is gold---TGOLD!!!

Thnak you
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Old July 4th, 2018, 11:52 AM   #19
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Soooo, with k&n 0990 pods and my 300 cc motor, pump gas (non ethanol), keihin 115s were way rich at Road America 1000 ft elevation 90 degree tenps and high humidity. I switched to 110s and it was better but still rich. Ive got leaner jets ordered .

Looking thru the jetting dbase thread, it seems a lot of 250s ended up with 108s when using the K&N pods. Im guessing air filters are the most important item when it comes to jetting and displacement matters not so much.
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Old July 7th, 2018, 06:37 AM   #20
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A quick google search showed thats its pretty typical to have to go leaner on the jets when increasing displacement. Hmmm. I sure guessed wrong about that!
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Old July 7th, 2018, 07:31 AM   #21
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Got to put some pictures man
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Old August 21st, 2018, 05:43 AM   #22
Dave Wolfe
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Update on my jetting- 105 keihin mj & 3 washers was down on power against the other 300s. 108 & 3 washers at the last round was pretty competitive. I may have to try the 110 again but with 3 washers and see how it does.
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Old August 21st, 2018, 02:09 PM   #23
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interesting results - keep us posted
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Old August 24th, 2018, 10:00 AM   #24
tgold
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MOTM - Nov '15
I had the bike out on the endurance and the throttle response is a bit too abrupt down low. We placed second in the endurance a couple hours after I crashed in a heat race and knocked myself silly for a minute. Then on Sunday I raced in the rain and had one of the best races of my life and placed second after starting from the back row. Even beat a TZ250

I'm going to go down at least one size on the jetting. Planning to do that when I go out for a play day this weekend.

I really have enjoyed the bike but I'm selling it. The competition is just too sporadic in the classes I race around here and track days can be a little frustrating around bigger bikes that park in the corners. The bike has been fantastic though. Probably going back to an SV650 or sticking a KTM 690 motor in my FZR400 chassis.
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Old August 24th, 2018, 10:35 AM   #25
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An FZR690 sounds nuts ..... DO IT
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