Budget HP

[Dave Wolfe]

Im just sort of daydreaming here and probably wont go thru with any of this but I was sorta trying to figure the best bang for the buck with HP mods. So far I have about 2 cents invested in power increasing tricks (idle mixture, shims, snorkel) and otherwise its a bone stock '09

Im not racing but my main purpose for the bike is track days. I also told myself when I got the bike that I wouldnt hop up the engine...

Full pipe - should be good for ~ 4-5 hp for $400-$650 (tyga or areap) or $100/hp

Knock out catalytic converter from stock pipe - any hp gain? Im guessing $50 at a muffler shop? Might be worthwhile if it got a 2hp gain at $25 per hp.

300 crank swap - figure ~5 hp? $300 (guess) for used 300 crank and rods. Would stock 250 pistons work? Or woulds used 300 pistons work in the stock 250 cylinders? If the stock 250 pistons dont work, then the cost of doing all this would go up a lot. $60 per hp if stock pistons could be used.

+2mm bore & 12.5:1 pistons - figure 1 hp for addl displacement and another 2 for the increased CR - so 3 hp for $400 or $133 per hp.

Any other ideas? Convert to methanol or E85?

[adouglas]

You'll need a jet kit if you do the full exhaust.

Jetting, exhaust, snorkel delete and Kleen Air delete, plus a K&N panel filter will get the newgen into stock Ninja 300 territory, more or less. Definitely a noticeable difference and worth it IMHO. PS: The AreaP Quiet Core sounds fantastic. Not loud but sexxxxaaaaayyyy

[Dave Wolfe]

Heck that reminds me I still have stock air filter and that bugger looked pretty restrictive. I probably see a UNI filter in my future for $15. Im too cheep to spring for the K&N

[Triple Jim]

Uni filters outperform K&N for keeping dirt out in every test I've seen.

[bruce71198]

If you can do the labor you can build one on the cheap. As soon as I get to the dyno I'll let you know how much HP and how cheap.

[choneofakind]

Cheapest reliable power upgrade per dollar: late 90's 600cc supersport. Maybe go early 2000's if you want fuel injection. Could probably pay an additional $1000 for another 70-80 hp.


I know it's not the answer you wanted... but seriously.

[JohnnyBravo]

Power costs money...
Turbos
Big bore kits
Zx6 pistons
Nitrous
You checked out the max horsepower thread yet? Bunch of crazy builds and broken bits... Maybe one day it will be figured out; I'm watching Bruce pretty close

[Racer x]

I would take a bone stock bike add a full exhaust and eliminate the clean air system. Then add a K&N 9009 air filter. This makes jetting a snap.
Get hold of an ignition modual from a 1988-2007 250 ninja. This will increase the ignition timing seven deg. The wiring is pretty simple.
With some minor jetting changes and a couple hotter plugs . Not a jet kit just the proper Keihn pilot and main jets you will be at or about 30-32 hp. With a nice fat power band.

Thats a couple hundred for the exhaust. And maybe fifty for the modual on eBay. And another hundred for the rest. Do it all at one time and it's a weekend project. Plus some time doing a couple jet changes.

You will probubly want to change the rear sprocket also but that can wait until it is time for matinance.

[Dave Wolfe]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I know it's not the answer you wanted... but seriously.

I think you misunderstood - I dont actually want to go fast! Im too old for that.

Who knows, Ill probably be happy with just the snorkel delete, it sure seemes to pull better at high revs. 2 weeks to go till i get to try it on the track. Im hoping those pesky pre-gens dont leave me on the straights this time.

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by adouglas

You'll need a jet kit if you do the full exhaust.

Jetting, exhaust, snorkel delete and Kleen Air delete, plus a K&N panel filter will get the newgen into stock Ninja 300 territory, more or less. Definitely a noticeable difference and worth it IMHO. PS: The AreaP Quiet Core sounds fantastic. Not loud but sexxxxaaaaayyyy

31 HP with a full Tyga system and everything you mentioned here.

[nickjpass]

My one hundred and five horsepower 2fiddy

[AwDang]

good tires and great suspension will lower lap times faster than HP

[Z1R rider]

Originally Posted by Dave Wolfe

2 weeks to go till i get to try it on the track. Im hoping those pesky pre-gens dont leave me on the straights this time.

Are you heading to RPM over Labor Day? If so we'll see you there! I'm really looking forward to Sunday's no sessions open track!

[Dave Wolfe]

Originally Posted by Z1R rider

Are you heading to RPM over Labor Day? If so we'll see you there! I'm really looking forward to Sunday's no sessions open track!

RPM Baby!!! Im planning on Saturday only.

[Dave Wolfe]

Originally Posted by Dave Wolfe

RPM Baby!!! Im planning on Saturday only.

DOH!! One of the schedules had a typo for the dates I was planning on the 10th but its actually the 4th. Ive just booked a new room & trailer.

[bruce71198]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

Power costs money...
Turbos
Big bore kits
Zx6 pistons
Nitrous
You checked out the max horsepower thread yet? Bunch of crazy builds and broken bits... Maybe one day it will be figured out; I'm watching Bruce pretty close

You will giggle when I tell you what I spent on this one.

Headed to Gratten in about an hour to see if I have it all ironed out.

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by bruce71198

You will giggle when I tell you what I spent on this one.

Headed to Gratten in about an hour to see if I have it all ironed out.

Hope it goes well!!!

[Z1R rider]

Originally Posted by Dave Wolfe

DOH!! One of the schedules had a typo for the dates I was planning on the 10th but its actually the 4th. Ive just booked a new room & trailer.

Glad you caught that!! Be a bummer to show up on the 10th and have the place to yourself.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Cheapest reliable power upgrade per dollar: late 90's 600cc supersport. Maybe go early 2000's if you want fuel injection. Could probably pay an additional $1000 for another 70-80 hp.


I know it's not the answer you wanted... but seriously.

I was going to say trade the 250 for a Ninja 500 & cash (because 500s are cheaper than 250s around here for some reason). You'll nearly double the horsepower and actually end up with more money. And it retains a lot of the 250's features, as opposed to switching to a true supersport.

The downsides are rolling back to '90s styling, it's a little heavier, and the redline is a little lower if you really like to wring it out.

[Dave Wolfe]

So I was stuck on my sofa over the weekend and did a little digging:
1) It seems Bruce has purchased all the 300 cranks on Ebay
2) the stock 300 pistons are nom. ~.001" larger in diameter than the newgen 250 stock pistons. Specs in the manual for ring groove width are equivalent for the 300 and newgen 250.
3) the cylinder dia spec is slightly smaller for the 300
4) the ring thickness specs are pretty equivalent. I think the 300 had a slightly higher ring endgap spec for one of the rings. The 250 and 300 stock ring sets have different part numbers and i have no idea if anything is really different between the two.

So if I were to do a cheap 300 crank swap, id try to use the stock 300 pistons and rods, have the 250 cylindrrs honed a touch if needed for piston to cyl clearance. Im not sure if the valves would clear or what kind of CR would result.

[DaBlue1]

Sounds like you have most of the basic stuff in mind except, ethanol free 87 octane gas, Iridium plugs and maybe this.

[bruce71198]

Originally Posted by Dave Wolfe

So I was stuck on my sofa over the weekend and did a little digging:
1) It seems Bruce has purchased all the 300 cranks on Ebay
2) the stock 300 pistons are nom. ~.001" larger in diameter than the newgen 250 stock pistons. Specs in the manual for ring groove width are equivalent for the 300 and newgen 250.
3) the cylinder dia spec is slightly smaller for the 300
4) the ring thickness specs are pretty equivalent. I think the 300 had a slightly higher ring endgap spec for one of the rings. The 250 and 300 stock ring sets have different part numbers and i have no idea if anything is really different between the two.

So if I were to do a cheap 300 crank swap, id try to use the stock 300 pistons and rods, have the 250 cylindrrs honed a touch if needed for piston to cyl clearance. Im not sure if the valves would clear or what kind of CR would result.

No.This will not work as stated above.
There are plenty of cranks on ebay, they just happen to be in complete engines. You can put one in you 250 frame easily and this would probably be the easiest on your budget. The 300 has nikasil cylinder wall requiring special low tension rings. also your pistons will end up sticking out the top of the cylinders, you will need to adjust for that. Search the forum for my 335cc build, you can do the same thing with stock bore=300cc, 2mm over=315cc (good choice, have built a few of these), or 4mm over=335cc ( a little finicky) or 5mm over=345cc this is kind of special and i'm not sure if the cylinder block is obtainable easily.

[Dave Wolfe]

Cant wait to see the dyno sheet! And so there is a difference in the rings after all, thats good to know.

At this point Im just gonna keep an eye out for a used full yoshi or areap pipe. I didnt like the sound of the tyga. Theres just not enough bang for the buck to make me want to open up my engine or pay retail prices on anything.

[Flying]

Another Area P group buy would be banging.

[subxero]

For real hp gains on a 250 a 300 engine swap or stroking the 250 to a 300 is probably the best bang for your buck. You would see real gains and still have room for an exhaust and other bits down the road.

Most non engine mods will give you small gains and barely noticeable if at all when out riding unless with other riders on 250's. JMO