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Old August 26th, 2016, 05:40 AM   #1
Lazarus
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So.much.gravel

Well it finally happened. I was on my way to work this morning and realizing it had rained very hard the previous night I was being extra cautious until I came upon a bend with so much gravel washed onto it I mistook it for some ones driveway and I low sided at about 20mph maybe 30mph. My bike was unfortunate enough to meet with a large rock in the front yard I went into and flipped several times into the air before landing in a ditch that had to have been about 7ft deep.

I didn't grab to much brake or swerve excessively but if I had kept my set course to avoid turning at all on the gravel I would have ended up in the woods somewhere as the turn became increasingly sharp where the washout was.

My bike is toast. This was at 5:20am so I couldn't asses all the damage properly but initial findings are my controls on the throttle side are toast along with the front brake lever which was missing (literally just installed cnc shorty levers last night ) and the handlebar itself being bent like a pretzel. My rear brake level is bent 90 degrees along with most of my plastics and fuel tank being broken and dented respectively. There is plenty of other damage I'm sure but I wont know till I get pictures in the daylight.

Now for the bright side!! I was GEARED up!! helmet, gloves, boots, jeans with workpants underneath, and jacket, ATGATT ftw. All I received was a very small scrape on my knee that is maybe the size of a silver dollar and that's it! Also, the bike still had the clutch lever, the shifter wasn't bent/broken/ mangled in any visible way and the bike would still shift gears and the lever pull the clutch in. all the dash lights stayed on and the headlight was still on after the crash. Should the bike be totaled (I feel that's how they will call it) I should be able to salvage at least the engine, carbs, wheels, brakes, etc, etc and part her out.

Ripping into her for parts and such is about all I have left to look forward to in our relationship together. I only had her for 8 months, she didn't even have 10k miles and we always had a blast together! ahhh im so sad and going to miss her. I haven't really decided if I will get a 250 again or a larger bike but for now I'm done for the season as my finances do not allow for frivolous spending on a new-ish bike and parts to indulge my excessive hobby.

Last paragraph I promise, thanks for reading this far lol. I am in PA and was wondering what the adjuster will say about my bike not being inspected since 2012... I was just about to put some tires, brakes, etc on her and get her inspected, now I don't need to... Will they say they aren't obligated to pay me due to my bike not being inspected? (never had to deal an out of inspection vehicle involved in an accident before)
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Old August 26th, 2016, 05:57 AM   #2
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Sorry to hear Rj but was this today? Keep an eye on yourself for the next 24-48h your soreness/other issues may not show until later.

Sorry about the bike but glad you are good.
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Old August 26th, 2016, 06:43 AM   #3
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Very sorry, and very glad you're OK. The bike doesn't sound totaled to me, but I'm not an insurance guy. I do have a friend who is, and in the states I've live in, I don't think not being inspected would hurt your claim. It might cause your policy to be canceled after they pay though, but that's a wild guess and might be wrong. You'll know soon enough.
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Old August 26th, 2016, 08:22 AM   #4
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yes, this was today 8/26/16. My right hip (the one I fell onto) is a little sore and I'm sure I will have some nice bruising and soreness tomorrow. Luckily I have the rest of today and my day off tomorrow to make sure I'm am at least alright. Thanks for the well wishes guys!

Ill update once I hear from the claims adjuster. I also just realized that in the post crash mania of it all I got some pictures of the bike, will post a little later today.
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Old August 26th, 2016, 09:00 AM   #5
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Sorry to read this, RJ

Hope all will come out OK.
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Old August 26th, 2016, 01:15 PM   #6
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^thank you. Got the bike back to the house and it is looking like I will need at minimum a new gas tank, right side hand and foot control, and a new radiator along with coolant. This is just to see if the engine will turn over and didn't sieze due to no coolant and possibly running for an unknown period of time at an awkward angle.

Question: when I low sided I was in gear and let the clutch out. Theoretically my bike should have cut out seconds after the slide started, correct? This leads me to believe the engine may still be okay if the previous presumption is indeed correct.
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Old August 26th, 2016, 01:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
Question: when I low sided I was in gear and let the clutch out. Theoretically my bike should have cut out seconds after the slide started, correct? This leads me to believe the engine may still be okay if the previous presumption is indeed correct.
This is not always the case. When a rear tire is no longer in contact with something that offers resistance, the wheel may freely spin when the bike is laying on it's side with the clutch engaged. See it often enough at the track, bikes running while down. Since the ninja is not equipped with a "tip over" safety switch, then all bets are off and purely situational. :\
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Old August 26th, 2016, 01:24 PM   #8
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Sorry bout your crash, happens to the best of us.
Sometimes they cut off, sometimes they run a while
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Old August 26th, 2016, 06:20 PM   #9
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Thanks for the responses. Guess I'll have to get a new radiator, do an oil change (most likely gas in the oil), and add some coolant to see if she will fire up. That won't be for a couple days (unless I get a 6 pack of motivation and go at it tomorrow)
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Old August 26th, 2016, 07:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
See it often enough at the track, bikes running while down.
Ha, one wipeout I had on the supermoto track, my Yamaha DT100 was still running on its side, and when I picked it up it almost took off without me. As one of the more experienced guys said, you learn to pull in the clutch lever before you pick it up.
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Old August 26th, 2016, 09:41 PM   #11
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Yikes. Glad you're ok and hopefully the bike will be repairable.
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Old August 27th, 2016, 12:25 PM   #12
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The bike's totaled, in an economic sense at least. Adjusters typically total at around 2/3 book value in damages. Book for that bike may be as high as $2K-2.5K, but just the fairing bits and gas tank will be over $2K.

There will be generally two paths here, one path has two options. Path one is that the bike is estimated and totaled, and the insurance company cuts you a check and takes the bike. The option here is that you can keep the bike and they deduct the salvage value (typically what they would get at auction) from the settlement check. That value would only be a few hundred dollars, the settlement check may be $2k or a bit higher. The bike would then have a salvage title, you could fix it or part it out and try to get back the deduction value (which you could do).

The second path is to negotiate a settlement with the insurance company to keep the bike with a clear title, and receiving a smaller cash settlement. The advantage to this path is that repairing the bike will leave it with a clean title which makes about every aspect of owning (and later selling) it far, far easier.

You need to see what's actually damaged on the bike mechanically, and explore what you can find replacement parts for. If the frame's tweaked then the bike's a gonner IMHO. If the forks are bent significantly then it's likely the frame's tweaked at the headset. Take a really good look at the bike, don't rely on the adjuster's estimate because they start with the expensive body parts first.

As an example, I got hit head-on by a Toyota pickup truck at a four way stop. The impact was in the 15mph range and she wound up parked on my bike. The insurance adjuster estimated over $4K damage to my pregen, far more than the book value then of around $2,600. They offered me I think around $3.5K that also covered doctor visits and damaged gear. It was the middle of winter and there were no pregens for sale, and I wanted to get back to riding right away. I looked at the bike and nothing structural other than the upper fairing brace was damaged, and I had a couple of parts bikes I'd accumulated that I could use to get mine back in good rideable (though color-mismatched) condition.

I negotiated a settlement for ~$2,700 with me keeping clear title on the bike with no salvage notation then I repaired it and had and ready to ride by the end of that weekend. Because the title is clear I could start riding it as soon as it was repaired, needing no salvage inspection, re-registration, none of that paperwork. That worked best for me.

BTW, make sure your gear that is damaged in any way is also paid for, including helmet. That's part of your coverage. You may also investigate placing a claim with your county as they have a duty to keep the roads in safe condition. That may not go anywhere but you ought to look into it anyway.

I'm glad you weren't injured. ATTGAT is so important, and hopefully your example will change someone's mind and inspire them to ride ATTGAT too.
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Old August 27th, 2016, 04:31 PM   #13
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Well I got the bike back and since I didn't have collision (my own fault) there won't be any settlement or cutting of checks. I have the bike in my possession (AAA reimburse d me for the tow from the scene) and the title hasn't been touched at all, the adjuster didn't even go look at the bike to total it. In my opinion its totaled but I'm very and I mean very mechanically inclined (its my job actually). The frame and forks aren't bent at all surprinsgly and the clutch lever still engages the clutch. Also, the shifter rod is 100% fine and I can shift through the first couple of gears no problem. No noises (wheel bearings, brake scrape, etc) when moving the bike in neutral.

I have already ordered about 85$ worth of parts in order to rebuild it to the point of seeing if the engine will turn over. I plan on replacing the radiator, hand controls on the throttle side, an oil change (which she needed anyways) and adding coolant. Should the engine turn over I will most likely rebuild her. I have priced out the rest of the parts (fairings, gas tank, etc) and it shouldn't be more than 500$.

Some will say its a waste of time but I have a weird bond with my bike and it will cost me far less to rebuild with me doing all the work than it would be to buy another 250 or larger bike, I only bought her for 1000$ so putting half or just above half of it back into her doesnt bother me, like i said earlier i do all my labor/fabrication and have gotten quite good at it (if i do say so myself) Should the engine not turn over you will see a part out thread quite soon.

I really appreciate all the responses and advice, it is very helpful and means a lot!
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Old August 27th, 2016, 04:55 PM   #14
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I don't know why there would be anything wrong with the engine, from what you described.
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Old August 27th, 2016, 05:17 PM   #15
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^^ I can't ascertain if the engine cut out soon after the low side due to not enough fuel/sufficient cooling or if the engine ran through the low side and continued to run until failure. When I got to the bike (probably no more than 30 seconds after I hit the ground) it was off, leaking fuel and had 0 coolant in it. So right now it is a guessing/waiting game.
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Old August 27th, 2016, 05:42 PM   #16
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It is highly unlikely that an engine running under light or no load and low throttle on its side for 30 seconds would be damaged because of it. It's not enough time to overheat, and even if the oil pump pickup sucked air, it's not enough time to damage bearings from lack of oil. It *is* likely that the engine quit because the carbs aren't designed to run while sideways. You're worrying too much.
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Old August 27th, 2016, 05:56 PM   #17
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Fair enough. Thank you for your advice. Just covering all my bases. I wouldn't say I'm worrying to much, just assessing a situation I have never dealt with before In the best way I know how.
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Old August 27th, 2016, 06:04 PM   #18
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That's understandable. I've had outboard motors get dunked under water while running, motorcycles running on their side like yours, a motorcycle that had a problem with its oil pickup and sucked air for at least a minute before I decided something must be wrong and found the problem, and probably other stupid engine abuses, and there was no permanent damage to any of them. I predict you'll find that your engine is OK.

Running under heavy load without oil, or running without cooling long enough to seize is another matter.
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Old August 27th, 2016, 07:14 PM   #19
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Fair enough. Thank you for your advice. Just covering all my bases. I wouldn't say I'm worrying to much, just assessing a situation I have never dealt with before In the best way I know how.
Metal particles or/and coolant in the old oil will tell you about any significant internal damage.
I also believe you will find none.

Why do you have to replace the radiator?
What made you think that the bike "had 0 coolant in it"?
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Old August 28th, 2016, 12:24 AM   #20
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Thanks jim, i hope that you are right.

Hernan, I'll try to post a picture today when I get done with work. There is a massive hole in the upper right side of the radiator and the overflow tank has a nice puncture mark in it. There may be some coolant left in the passages but when I pulled the cap off the radiator she was dry as the Sahara.
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Old August 28th, 2016, 08:34 PM   #21
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Yep, not having collision sort of limits the possibilities.

My thoughts on the bike so far: The motor's fine. Typically you have to break a side case cover or crash hard on the shifter side to end up with a bad motor, or maybe drop it into a lake while it was running.

I wouldn't worry about replacing the tank for now unless it has a hole in it. Get the mechanical bits replaced and fluids topped up and air bled out of the cooling system then get it started back up. I'm not that familiar with the newgens but parts seem to be plentiful for them, so you're lucky in that respect.

Make sure the forks aren't bent nor is the triple clamp, and check that the rear wheel is still aligned properly. One thing odd that happened to me was that even though it was a head-on, my rear wheel got knocked forward and loosened up the chain, as well as knocking it crooked a bit. It bent the chain adjusters. I didn't notice that while riding it back to work because I was more focused on the various bits of glass and plastic that were falling off with every bump I ran over.

You'll be fine, and you'll just have an ugly bike for a while. Most of us have been there to one extent or another. Also, don't forget to take a really good look at your helmet. If there are impact marks on the outside then likely the EPS liner is crushed and the helmet is no longer usable.
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Old September 16th, 2016, 06:01 AM   #22
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^^ just reading this now
Great advice! Thank you. The tank has a nice hole in it and leaks bad. I have ordered parts to get her back in shape. Hopefully before the end of the month but with the way things are going for me that could turn into months...
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Old September 17th, 2016, 09:54 AM   #23
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Rj, I'm very sorry to hear about your crash . I'm glad you were wearing good protective gear and avoided serious injury. Your engine should be fine. Good luck with getting your Ninjette back on the road.
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Old September 17th, 2016, 11:15 AM   #24
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Thank you. I hope I can get her back together and running soon.
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Old September 17th, 2016, 03:05 PM   #25
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I'd pay $1500 for an '08 any day I had the money an somebody would sell it too me... Even with the crash an repair you are still doing well

When motors won't turn over anymore I just hear: rebuild, stroke, bore, port, Polish, relieve, moaaaaaaar powaaaaaaaaaaas
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Old October 1st, 2016, 07:30 AM   #26
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Alright .org members I'm at a loss here. I have put my bike back together enough to try and get her to start but she will not. I didn't want to start another thread so I just posted it here.

List of things I have done:
New battery
New cdi box (exact same part number as the old one)
Resistor wired into eBay ignition (100ohms 1watt)
Fresh plugs
New kill/starter switch
Checked all my fuses and grounds (they are good)

I have spark in both plugs (grounded threads against the engine and hit starter button while they were in the boots)
They (the plugs) smell of fuel when I pull them after trying to start it and if I hit the starter button with the plugs out a nice puff of fuel comes from each cylinder.

Am I missing something here? I have air, fuel, spark yet I can't get her to fire up. The tach doesn't even shutter up and down when I hit the starter.

Side note: I used the new battery to many times and now must hook my car battery up (not running of course) to try to start the bike. Would the dead battery have anything to do with it even though I have it hooked to a known good battery? I'm grasping at straws here trying to get her to run.

Thanks everyone
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Old October 1st, 2016, 09:45 AM   #27
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It seems that your engine is receiving too much fuel.
If carbs are not overflowing, try cranking the engine up for a while with the plugs out, the petcock closed and the throttle full open.
Then install the plugs and do not use choke.
I would also check the condition of the air filter, just in case it is siaked in fuel or too dirty/oiled.
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Old October 1st, 2016, 10:19 AM   #28
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Thanks Herman, I purged the fuel in the manor you suggested and checked the filter/airbox. The filter seems to be fine, slightly oily but not smelling of gas and the airbox has no residual oil or fuel that i can see.

I'll let her sit and try again in a little bit.
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Old October 2nd, 2016, 12:20 PM   #29
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So let her sit and tried to start her again with no choke and nothing. So just for laughs I tried push starting it and she fired up on the 3rd try. Battery to weak for a good spark? I didn't run her long enough to charge the battery (she is naked and missing some important pieces like new tires and brakes) and she wouldn't hold an idle but she does run.

Progress I guess.
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Old October 2nd, 2016, 12:45 PM   #30
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........Progress I guess.
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_to_...ike_from_a_car

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Old October 2nd, 2016, 04:09 PM   #31
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^ I tried that yesterday before I posted and the bike wouldn't start. Which is what puzzled me. Push starting worked but not hooking it up to a car battery while its off? Idk.
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Old October 31st, 2016, 12:36 AM   #32
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Old October 31st, 2016, 03:10 AM   #33
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I've been meaning to post my results but unfortunately life is getting in the way. She is back on the road and running, a little rough around the edges, but running none the less. Still have a few minor things to take care of but I have been slowly stretching her legs on rides farther and farther from my apt and even took her to work the other day.

Thank you to everyone who gave me advice and posted here! Its been a busy 2 months but I'm glad to be riding again. Should I ever get a second to myself I'll try and post some pictures (that's what I said 2 months ago after the crash and still no pictures lol)
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Old October 31st, 2016, 02:57 PM   #34
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Spoke to soon, discovered a leak in the radiator this afternoon. Ahhh the joys of riding.
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Old October 31st, 2016, 08:25 PM   #35
CaliGrrl
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Oh, no!
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Old November 3rd, 2016, 05:13 AM   #36
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Unfortunately i cant repair the radiator myself but i did pull it and am taking it to a radiator repair place today

Silver lining: the company I bought my radiator from is working with me to make sure the problem is solved at no cost to me. They offered to foot the bill at the radiator shop or if the repair exceeds the cost of the radiator (which I feel it will) they are going to work with me to find a solution. Guess we will see how it goes.
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Old November 3rd, 2016, 09:25 AM   #37
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Nice to have help keeping the costs in line and a radiator shop will likely do a good job on it.
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Old November 4th, 2016, 03:05 AM   #38
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I hope so lol supposed to hear back from them today. I missed all the good riding weather this week
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Old November 7th, 2016, 07:46 PM   #39
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I was correct, the repair of the radiator exceeded its initial cost. She is back on the road and I'm loving it.

Last futzed with by Lazarus; November 8th, 2016 at 04:02 AM.
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Old November 7th, 2016, 11:06 PM   #40
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Glad you're back on the road!
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