Discovered something scary about my Ninjette today...

[kjohng]

I bought my 2010 Ninja 250R about a year ago and had my bike serviced solely by that dealer I bought it from (was an idiot and was suckered into maintenance plan). It's my first bike and I love it. I dropped it once while learning at like 3 miles an hour. I lost my footing while taking off somehow...

Anyway, while on the highway today, I ran over a tumbleweed and pulled over to reach it out of the header area. While doing this, I realized that my chassis is disconnected from my engine crankcase!!! I'm missing the large bolt (part #92154A) and it's nut (part #92105). I called my dealer mad as hell because I just realized my safety was severely compromised for the past year. They said they'd look into the matter, but that it may have just vibrated out of place. I call bullshit on that because it's like an 8 inch long bolt held in by the opposing forces of the chassis and crankcase.

Really hoping to get damages and repairs paid for because this has caused my side fairings to rip. :-(

[alex.s]

if it vibrated lose, your mechanic didn't do their job correctly. checking the torque on those bolts is part of scheduled maintenance. if you paid for a service package, they should be the ones to pay for their own mistake.

[Old Lemon]

got a pic of where it should be? id like to check mine

[jhunter]

Without lock-tight (sp?) or some type of locking washer, those things will come right off. When I replaced the engine in mine, the nuts were tightened down really good, but they still vibrated right out. I was fortunate and caught them doing it, so I was able to remedy the problem before my engine fell off.

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by kjohng

I bought my 2010 Ninja 250R about a year ago and had my bike serviced solely by that dealer I bought it from (was an idiot and was suckered into maintenance plan).

Guess you weren't so much of an idiot after all?

[kjohng]

I'll post pics tomorrow. I suppose getting a maintenance plan in this instance could be my saving grace, but time will tell. I just find it absolutely ridiculous that the mechanic missed this after it's been in the shop three times (one time for break-in maintenance). If it did vibrate loose when it was indeed there, then I agree, the mechanic messed up. In doing so, compromised my safety. I can only imagine in what condition other people's bikes are in if they purchased theirs from that same dealer...

[kjohng]

By the way, my bike only has 6000 miles on it. I can't see how that bolt would vibrate out after that many miles. (5400)

[Bassman]

Just an fyi, no body will care about your bike like you will. It's good to give it a once over before you ride.

[klewi]

Originally Posted by kjohng

I'm missing the large bolt (part #92154A) and it's nut (part #92105).........it's like an 8 inch long bolt:-(

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think you are describing the long engine mounting bolt? I've had this bolt out before, that is however another story about factory defects and poor Kawi service but I digress.

If I have the right bolt in mind it doesn't come out easy. You are correct the force of the frame and motor make it difficult to remove. That said even if it could vibrate loose I don't think the bolt can come all the way out without the fairing being off. There just isn't enough room because of the bolt length.

I'd say the bolt had to have been removed when the fairings were off. If I'm right it then poses the question of why someone would remove it unless you had a significant repair issue.

[kjohng]

Yes you are correct. I had the same thoughts. I don't see how this could've happened. The only thing that comes to mind is that they forgot to put it in? I don't know. What ever the cause may be, I don't believe I am at fault for this and I should have this problem corrected at no cost to me. Agree?

[Domagoj]

Originally Posted by kjohng

The only thing that comes to mind is that they forgot to put it in.

As @Bassman has told you, you are the only one that really cares about the bike. I realize it can be tedious (if you don't have the space), but changing oil, spark plugs, air filters, brake pads & fluid, taking wheels off and stuff, really isn't that difficult.
Adjusting your valves is a bit harder, but there are great DIYs on this site, and if you can get a friend to help out, you can be done with it in 2 days time with no hurry and no stress, even if you have never done it before.

Just get your bolt back and forget about them.

[Redgeneral]

Originally Posted by jhunter

Without lock-tight (sp?) or some type of locking washer, those things will come right off. When I replaced the engine in mine, the nuts were tightened down really good, but they still vibrated right out. I was fortunate and caught them doing it, so I was able to remedy the problem before my engine fell off.

With the vibration caused by the road and engine, 99% of bolts will wiggle out over time if you don't use any thread-lock (lock-tite). Ask me how I know.

[flynjay]

Originally Posted by Redgeneral

With the vibration caused by the road and engine, 99% of bolts will wiggle out over time if you don't use any thread-lock (lock-tite). Ask me how I know.

If you properly torque the bolts this is not true.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think you are describing the long engine mounting bolt? I've had this bolt out before, that is however another story about factory defects and poor Kawi service but I digress.

If I have the right bolt in mind it doesn't come out easy. You are correct the force of the frame and motor make it difficult to remove. That said even if it could vibrate loose I don't think the bolt can come all the way out without the fairing being off. There just isn't enough room because of the bolt length.

I'd say the bolt had to have been removed when the fairings were off. If I'm right it then poses the question of why someone would remove it unless you had a significant repair issue.

It is generally necessary to remove that bolt for valve adjustments since the valve cover is difficult/impossible to get off with the mounts attached. Common procedure is to remove long mount bolt and the four bolts above it to let the radiator float forward a bit, then work the cover out.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by flynjay

If you properly torque the bolts this is not true.

+1

Originally Posted by flynjay

It is generally necessary to remove that bolt for valve adjustments since the valve cover is difficult/impossible to get off with the mounts attached. Common procedure is to remove long mount bolt and the four bolts above it to let the radiator float forward a bit, then work the cover out.

he shouldnt have had any valve checks yet. in fact according to service schedule that bolt shouldnt have been removed yet. it should have been checked twice already by the mechanic per the service schedule. it obviously was not torqued correctly and first time setup as well as the 600mi check require checking torque on those bolts. it seems close to impossible for that bolt to come all the way out with the fairings on. i think in pretty much any of the possible cases of how it happened, the mechanic is still responsible for the repairs.

[kjohng]

After about a month of arguing with the dealer I bought the bike from, I convinced them to replace the chassis, rebuild the bike on that new chassis, and supply me with new side fairings at no cost to me. Life is good. I'll be riding again soon!!

[Jono]

[Dragonracer76]

^^ +1

[EsrTek]

Grats on getting them to fix their own screw up...hope it all works out for you w/ minimal amount of headaches.

[johncrist1988]

Originally Posted by kjohng

After about a month of arguing with the dealer I bought the bike from, I convinced them to replace the chassis, rebuild the bike on that new chassis, and supply me with new side fairings at no cost to me. Life is good. I'll be riding again soon!!

Hot damn O.O

I do have to agree, though. Valve adjustments are about the only pain in the ass to do the first time, though my first time didn't take two days, just a long afternoon.

Even with the service plan on my new 2010 this Friday, I still plan on doing my own plugs, oil changes (though it seems kinda dumb because they're giving me free oil changes... what am I gonna do, give it an oil change immediately after their oil change? lol), brakes, tires, etc. It's just not worth it to me to no know all these things are being done right.

That's a DAMN good compromise, though. Holy cow.

[Rifleman]

"extra" parts in the belly pan, is bad.

large extra parts, doubly so.


I will tell you this, cleaning and waxing the bike once a month when riding will give you that quality time with the bike to find things that are wrong. Washing the bike gives you a nice clean bike but also gives you ... "hey, there was a bolt in that hole the last time I did this"

[ForceofWill]

ZOMBIES!!!!!!!

[wendyjboss]

My guess is you just lost it that moment or moments before. That happened to me with my old Yamaha scooter. I'm surprised you were able to ride without it. I never figured out how that happened but I will say that I got a lot more respect for not riding off curbs and such. Locktite -- I'm starting to get it.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by ForceofWill

ZOMBIES!!!!!!!

Indeed. Reviving a year-old thread that was a revival from 3 years before that...

[JasonJ]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

Indeed. Reviving a year-old thread that was a revival from 3 years before that...

Ya gotta get your post count up there somehow....

[1wardogusmc]

That's a crazy situation. Glad to know you didn't have anything too catastrophic happen and after a little pressure they took care of it for you.

[wendyjboss]

Originally Posted by JasonJ

Ya gotta get your post count up there somehow....

And I quote that happened to me on a scooter and I still don't understand how you can ride a bike that's disconnected from the chassis cause the back just don't follow the front ....

And I give a hoot about my post count -- I just got a lot more active on the forum and saw this for the first time. Still scratching my head....

[Bob KellyIII]

Originally Posted by kjohng

After about a month of arguing with the dealer I bought the bike from, I convinced them to replace the chassis, rebuild the bike on that new chassis, and supply me with new side fairings at no cost to me. Life is good. I'll be riding again soon!!

Why in Gods green earth would you demand a new chasse when there was nothing missing but a silly bolt !?!?!? you didn't wreck, you didn't die
your feelings were hurt because you discovered they didn't care for your bike the way you hoped they would..... If that had happened in my shop I would
have replaced the bolt and the cracked fairings if it looked like the bolt caused it and not the rider,
( which I seriously doubt a missing bolt there could crack any part of the fairing anywhere)
and if that wasn't good enough I'ed tell'em to go fly a kite ! and in the future take your business elsewhere !
....
all you guys cheering that YAH he got results, must realise he just raised the cost of repairs for you next time you take your bike to that shop !
the mechanic is probably looking for a job, just because someone complained
that he forgot a bolt..... no body died !.... but this guys screaming cost him his job..... it's real hard to feel sorry for a guy like that !
....
you act like they owe you a new bike.... they don't ! they owe you a bolt...that's all, but good business practices says they should repair any damage that bolt caused.... it didn't ruin your chasse... geez !
Bob.....



And I got sucked right into it didn't I ? too old of a post to bother with and I saw a new post so I read it all and never looked at the dates ! LOL
oh well.....
Bob.........

[DannoXYZ]

Well, sometimes it's good to revive a zombie to remind people of simple matters rather than start new thread.

FWIW, it's not possible to tighten these engine-bolts to normal torque because it would break off mounting-ears on engine case and head (no spacer in between). Torque specified in manual is only 1/2 of standard torque for that size fastener, so it's possible for them to vibrate nut off over time.

Blue Loctite and star-lockwasher is all you need to keep them secure. Split-lockwashers have been proven to not be effective and no major OEM manufacturer uses them any more. Honda uses very nice belleville spring washers... especially on their SSSA applications.

[Bob KellyIII]

I've always used the split /regular type lock washer and Yes i have had some things on the old 305 come loose anyway.... I want to buy a assortment of the star washers so I have them at hand... rather than trying to find anything that will do in the "Hell-box" LOL....
Bob......