Having some troubleshooting issues...

Cloud Strife · March 27th, 2011, 05:16 PM

Hello all! Been snooping the boards and must tip my hat the the extremely knowledgeable personnel here. Now I need some personal guidance...

I went away last fall for a few weeks and when I got back, it was winter. I didn't do any winterizing and now I am obviously paying the price. After pullin it out a couple weeks ago, she wouldn't turn. I charged the battery which fixed that. It would then turn, but wouldn't catch. Swapping the spark plugs solved that problem.

Then, I was able to have her idling with the choke on, but would die if I turned it off. I took out the old gas and filled it up with premium and added some SeaFoam. Then I was able to get it idling with the choke off, although somewhat choppy.

Then I was faced with the problem of the engine dying the moment I opened the throttle. I though that maybe the fuel lines may have been kinked or something so I pulled off the tank and checked the lines to make sure they weren't kinked or depressed by anything. I put the tank back on and now it won't even start.

I know what my next step will likely be but I wanted some more experienced assistance before pullingthe carbs and cleaning them. Does this sound like the problem or could it be something else?

It's a 2010 250 and has 600 miles on it.

I appreciate the feedback!

kkim · March 27th, 2011, 05:24 PM

Chad,

Sorry to say, but it does sound like you'll need to pull the carbs to clean them at at this point.

have you seen this thread?
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65198

may I also suggest if do end up pulling the carbs out that you remove the plug caps on the mixture screws and shim the needles while you're in there?

Alex · March 27th, 2011, 05:25 PM

If the bike was a-ok when put away, but is having starting and running issues months later, dollars to donuts it's carb-related. Step-by-step details on what to do next from kkim's thread here. Good luck!

edit: I clearly didn't hit post quite quick enough.

kkim · March 27th, 2011, 05:27 PM

clearly...

Cloud Strife · March 27th, 2011, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

Chad,

Sorry to say, but it does sound like you'll need to pull the carbs to clean them at at this point.

have you seen this thread?
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65198

may I also suggest if do end up pulling the carbs out that you remove the plug caps on the mixture screws and shim the needles while you're in there?

That's actually the thread that made me decide to join the forum. Great stuff in there! The DIY help is seriously priceless.

I probably will do that while I have the carbs out. I might as well take care of everything that I can so I don't have to rip them out again. Simply a mistake that I won't make again but at the very least, I've learned a great deal about motorcycles in the last two weeks which I wouldn't have learned otherwise.

kkim · March 27th, 2011, 05:32 PM

the shimming and removing the plug caps are so much easier when the carbs are removed. I highly recommend you buy some JIS screwdrivers if you are going to be doing carb work.

you have a PM.

Cloud Strife · March 27th, 2011, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

the shimming and removing the plug caps are so much easier when the carbs are removed. I highly recommend you buy some JIS screwdrivers if you are going to be doing carb work.

you have a PM.

And those can be purchased at most tool / hardware stores, I assume?

I was going to pull the carbs and clean them once I took the tank off but when I saw the airbox assembly, I totally chickened out...

kkim · March 27th, 2011, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud Strife

And those can be purchased at most tool / hardware stores, I assume?

I was going to pull the carbs and clean them once I took the tank off but when I saw the airbox assembly, I totally chickened out...

most likely not. here's a source if you can't.
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=49003

do your homework before tearing into the bike. there are threads around which show how to pull the carbs out when you still have the airbox.
http://www.kawiforums.com/ninja-250r...ll-re-jet.html

Cloud Strife · March 27th, 2011, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

most likely not. here's a source if you can't.
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=49003

do your homework before tearing into the bike. there are threads around which show how to pull the carbs out when you still have the airbox.
http://www.kawiforums.com/ninja-250r...ll-re-jet.html

Yeah, I saw that thread but it wasn't until after I put the tank back on. All good though; I now know where to go once I get to that step. I'm not about to dive into something that I'm not comfortable with so I've read the info a few times over and now have another source for information thanks to you.

Cloud Strife · March 28th, 2011, 01:51 PM

Ok so I've made it up to the point where I'm supposed to pull the air box back so as the allow the carb room to be pulled out. I double checked to make sure that I unscrewed everything but the air box doesn't seem to want to move back at all. It wiggles, but not enough to clear the carbs. How much is it supposed to be able to move?? Seems like there's no where for it to go...

Halp! Lol

kkim · March 28th, 2011, 02:06 PM

did you get the one in the lower right hand in this pic?

did you remove the battery case?

Cloud Strife · March 28th, 2011, 02:09 PM

Yep, got that one and the battery case is gone as well. I have it wiggled back about a quarter inch...I could probably force the thing out if I had to but it'd be impossible to wedge back in. I'm just checking again to see if it's hung up on something.

Cloud Strife · March 28th, 2011, 02:33 PM

Managed to get the carbs out w a little strength. Time for a cleaning

kkim · March 28th, 2011, 02:39 PM

if things were a bit tight getting them out, it will be a chore getting them back in. A trick that works for me is to lube the rubber pieces with a light coat of rubber protectant like Armorall when reassembling any rubber pieces. It makes installation a breeze and parts simply slide into place.

remember to blow/clean out the passages that the jets screw into as well as cleaning out the jets themselves.

be very careful with the diaphragms when shimming the needles. they are delicate and expensive.

headshrink · March 28th, 2011, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

if things were a bit tight getting them out, it will be a chore getting them back in. A trick that works for me is to lube the rubber pieces with a light coat of rubber protectant like Armorall when reassembling any rubber pieces. It makes installation a breeze and parts simply slide into place.

This make ALL the difference! Think of it like lubing a tire when you install it on the rim.... you sure wouldn't get it on there without lube.

Cloud Strife · March 28th, 2011, 03:36 PM

Update: Opened up the carbs and checked the jets. They were clean. One was arguably a little dirty so I sprayed sone cleaner into it then rinsed it off. I still have to blow out the passages that the jets screw into before I put it all back together. Also, I shimmed the needles with two washers each and was very careful not to damage the diaphragms.

Anything else you recommend me doing so that I have all my carb-related bases covered?

kkim · March 28th, 2011, 04:11 PM

did you remove the cap plugs over the mixture screws? if not, do that, too. it will ease carb tuning in the future if you can access them.

Cloud Strife · March 28th, 2011, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

did you remove the cap plugs over the mixture screws? if not, do that, too. it will ease carb tuning in the future if you can access them.

Yes, I did indeed do that as per your suggestion! I don't have access to compressed air; is there another means by which to clean out the lines within the carbs (ie manual blow) or is that really the only way to clean them?

kkim · March 28th, 2011, 04:39 PM

many use carb cleaner in an aerosol can and stick the red plastic tube to direct the cleaner through those passages. That will work, but watch out for the carb cleaner... it's nasty stuff and you don't want that flying all over the place. A rag over the carb when you use that would be a good idea.

Cloud Strife · March 28th, 2011, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

many use carb cleaner in an aerosol can and stick the red plastic tube to direct the cleaner through those passages. That will work, but watch out for the carb cleaner... it's nasty stuff and you don't want that flying all over the place. A rag over the carb when you use that would be a good idea.

Perfect. Will the carb cleaner itself damage the fuel lines (the rubber ones leading to the carb)? I know it can do a number on the diaphragm so should the lines be removed prior to sending carb cleaner through the unit?

kkim · March 28th, 2011, 04:57 PM

I can't say... I don't use that stuff on my carbs, but just test it out on a small portion of tubing and see if it deforms/eats it. I would think it would be relatively safe if you work fast and don't leave it soaking on the rubber parts for very long.

just to be clear... this kinda stuff or something similar is what I'm talking about...

Cloud Strife · March 28th, 2011, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

I can't say... I don't use that stuff on my carbs, but just test it out on a small portion of tubing and see if it deforms/eats it. I would think it would be relatively safe if you work fast and don't leave it soaking on the rubber parts for very long.

just to be clear... this kinda stuff or something similar is what I'm talking about...

Yep, that's the kind of stuff I have. Came with a nifty red tube for spraying. Should I rinse the units out afterwards before putting them back together?

kkim · March 28th, 2011, 05:33 PM

if everything is relatively clean after you spray, wiping it down with a clean cloth should suffice.

with carb work, the cleaner you are with your work, the less chance of something getting stuck in one of those little holes you just cleaned out. cleanliness is essential.

clean out you jets with the carb cleaner too, while you're at it.

Cloud Strife · March 28th, 2011, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

if everything is relatively clean after you spray, wiping it down with a clean cloth should suffice.

with carb work, the cleaner you are with your work, the less chance of something getting stuck in one of those little holes you just cleaned out. cleanliness is essential.

clean out you jets with the carb cleaner too, while you're at it.

Thanks Kelly! I'll get to all that tomorrow morning and will post updates

kkim · March 28th, 2011, 05:45 PM

looking forward to good news.

gl...

cwb48 · March 29th, 2011, 06:56 AM

Chad;
No one else seems to have mentioned this, but make sure that you have removed and cleaned the pilot jets as well as the main jets while you have the carbs apart. They are easy to miss, as they are in a well at the top of the float bowls, and must be removed with a small straight blade screwdriver to be cleaned properly. Clean them until you can see daylight clearly through the tiny hole that is the actual jet. Check Kelly's other posts linked above for photos.

Chris

Cloud Strife · March 29th, 2011, 09:55 AM

Update: cleaned out the carbs an the interior components. Carba finally back in and hooked back up. Just about to put the tank back on. Fingers crossed...

randomwalk101 · March 29th, 2011, 10:13 AM

good luck. after the bike is running good, make sure you synch the carb too.

Cloud Strife · March 29th, 2011, 10:14 AM

Alright, so I got the tank back on and hooked up the battery. Turned the petcock to prime and let 'er rip...

It's turning over very readily and it wants to start but She's showing no signs of catching. This is reminiscent of earlier in the process when I had to replace the spark plugs in order to make that happen.

EDIT: Success! Adjusting the idle speed nozzle seemed to do the trick!!

CZroe · March 29th, 2011, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud Strife

Alright, so I got the tank back on and hooked up the battery. Turned the petcock to prime and let 'er rip...

It's turning over very readily and it wants to start but She's showing no signs of catching. This is reminiscent of earlier in the process when I had to replace the spark plugs in order to make that happen.

EDIT: Success! Adjusting the idle speed nozzle seemed to do the trick!!

Awesome. No reason to suspect foul play from Shinra or Sephiroth.

headshrink · March 29th, 2011, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud Strife

EDIT: Success! Adjusting the idle speed nozzle seemed to do the trick!!

Cool, glad you got it. Idle speed nozzle?.... you are talking about the black thumbscrew idle adjustment you can reach with your fairing on.... I assume.

Cloud Strife · March 29th, 2011, 12:02 PM

Haha well you never know...they might be responsible for the carbs being plugged up anyway!

On a side note, and I assume this is a result of the shimming, she sounded SO much better when I was revving her. Lots more throttle response right off the bat : )

Cloud Strife · March 29th, 2011, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by headshrink

Cool, glad you got it. Idle speed nozzle?.... you are talking about the black thumbscrew idle adjustment you can reach with your fairing on.... I assume.

Yeah, that's the one. giving it a bit of a twist allowed her to get running. I then had to readjust after it started warming up to keep it in the proper range.

kkim · March 29th, 2011, 12:10 PM

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...55&postcount=5

congrats!

Cloud Strife · March 29th, 2011, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...55&postcount=5

congrats!

Now it's time to actually put my work through the paces

Just ordered some Protons and an integrated tail light to spruce things up. Any good sources for solo seat cowls? The cheapest one I am able to find is $99.99 + shipping.

kkim · March 29th, 2011, 12:56 PM

go ride the damned thing and have some fun with it before sinking money into it.

Cloud Strife · March 29th, 2011, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

go ride the damned thing and have some fun with it before sinking money into it.

Haha touche, but it'll be a few weeks before any packages arrive for me anyway!

Away I go : D Thanks for your help!

Cloud Strife · March 29th, 2011, 03:59 PM

So, took her for a nice rip and am reporting back. Overall I'm thrilled to have her back on the road and zipping about. My only concern with anything is some hesitation below 4000 rpm. I can take her off the line quick without a problem but if I want a slow start (ie like when I'm stuck in traffic) then there seems to be some choppiness up to about 4000 rpm.

Oh, and it's still a bit cold

kkim · March 29th, 2011, 04:08 PM

sounds like it's running better... is it?

bring me back up to date. any mods to the intake or exhaust other than the 2 shims added to the needles? the shims should have made the lower rpms a lot smoother/fatter than they had been.

did you have any riding time on the bike to find out what the low rpms were like prior to you having your recent problem?

Cloud Strife · March 29th, 2011, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

sounds like it's running better... is it?

bring me back up to date. any mods to the intake or exhaust other than the 2 shims added to the needles? the shims should have made the lower rpms a lot smoother/fatter than they had been.

did you have any riding time on the bike to find out what the low rpms were like prior to you having your recent problem?

Oh it's definitely running better than it was since before this carb cleaning I couldn't get it moving! No mods done besides the needle shims.

When I rode the bike last year, I didn't really have any problems with hesitation in the low RPM range. Seemed to pick up as fast as I would ease off the clutch and open the throttle. At least I never noticed any hesitation. I didnt have much power in this range last year in terms of being able to accelerate quick off the line so it seems to be better in that regard now however she seems to be struggling, even 'putting'' at times with slow acceleration from the low range...strange.

March 27th, 2011, 05:16 PM	#1
Cloud Strife Hot Wheels Name: Paul Location: Niagara Falls Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Kawi Ninja 250R Posts: 64	Having some troubleshooting issues... Hello all! Been snooping the boards and must tip my hat the the extremely knowledgeable personnel here. Now I need some personal guidance... I went away last fall for a few weeks and when I got back, it was winter. I didn't do any winterizing and now I am obviously paying the price. After pullin it out a couple weeks ago, she wouldn't turn. I charged the battery which fixed that. It would then turn, but wouldn't catch. Swapping the spark plugs solved that problem. Then, I was able to have her idling with the choke on, but would die if I turned it off. I took out the old gas and filled it up with premium and added some SeaFoam. Then I was able to get it idling with the choke off, although somewhat choppy. Then I was faced with the problem of the engine dying the moment I opened the throttle. I though that maybe the fuel lines may have been kinked or something so I pulled off the tank and checked the lines to make sure they weren't kinked or depressed by anything. I put the tank back on and now it won't even start. I know what my next step will likely be but I wanted some more experienced assistance before pullingthe carbs and cleaning them. Does this sound like the problem or could it be something else? It's a 2010 250 and has 600 miles on it. I appreciate the feedback!

March 27th, 2011, 05:25 PM	#3
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE, '15 CRF110F, '13 TT-R50E Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	If the bike was a-ok when put away, but is having starting and running issues months later, dollars to donuts it's carb-related. Step-by-step details on what to do next from kkim's thread here. Good luck! edit: I clearly didn't hit post quite quick enough. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

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March 27th, 2011, 05:24 PM	#2
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	Chad, Sorry to say, but it does sound like you'll need to pull the carbs to clean them at at this point. have you seen this thread? http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65198 may I also suggest if do end up pulling the carbs out that you remove the plug caps on the mixture screws and shim the needles while you're in there?

March 27th, 2011, 05:27 PM	#4
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	clearly...

March 27th, 2011, 05:32 PM	#6
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	the shimming and removing the plug caps are so much easier when the carbs are removed. I highly recommend you buy some JIS screwdrivers if you are going to be doing carb work. you have a PM.

March 28th, 2011, 01:51 PM	#10
Cloud Strife Hot Wheels Name: Paul Location: Niagara Falls Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Kawi Ninja 250R Posts: 64	Ok so I've made it up to the point where I'm supposed to pull the air box back so as the allow the carb room to be pulled out. I double checked to make sure that I unscrewed everything but the air box doesn't seem to want to move back at all. It wiggles, but not enough to clear the carbs. How much is it supposed to be able to move?? Seems like there's no where for it to go... Halp! Lol

March 28th, 2011, 02:06 PM	#11
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	did you get the one in the lower right hand in this pic? did you remove the battery case?

March 28th, 2011, 02:09 PM	#12
Cloud Strife Hot Wheels Name: Paul Location: Niagara Falls Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Kawi Ninja 250R Posts: 64	Yep, got that one and the battery case is gone as well. I have it wiggled back about a quarter inch...I could probably force the thing out if I had to but it'd be impossible to wedge back in. I'm just checking again to see if it's hung up on something.

March 28th, 2011, 02:33 PM	#13
Cloud Strife Hot Wheels Name: Paul Location: Niagara Falls Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Kawi Ninja 250R Posts: 64	Managed to get the carbs out w a little strength. Time for a cleaning

March 28th, 2011, 02:39 PM	#14
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	if things were a bit tight getting them out, it will be a chore getting them back in. A trick that works for me is to lube the rubber pieces with a light coat of rubber protectant like Armorall when reassembling any rubber pieces. It makes installation a breeze and parts simply slide into place. remember to blow/clean out the passages that the jets screw into as well as cleaning out the jets themselves. be very careful with the diaphragms when shimming the needles. they are delicate and expensive.

March 28th, 2011, 03:36 PM	#16
Cloud Strife Hot Wheels Name: Paul Location: Niagara Falls Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Kawi Ninja 250R Posts: 64	Update: Opened up the carbs and checked the jets. They were clean. One was arguably a little dirty so I sprayed sone cleaner into it then rinsed it off. I still have to blow out the passages that the jets screw into before I put it all back together. Also, I shimmed the needles with two washers each and was very careful not to damage the diaphragms. Anything else you recommend me doing so that I have all my carb-related bases covered?

March 28th, 2011, 04:11 PM	#17
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	did you remove the cap plugs over the mixture screws? if not, do that, too. it will ease carb tuning in the future if you can access them.

March 28th, 2011, 04:39 PM	#19
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	many use carb cleaner in an aerosol can and stick the red plastic tube to direct the cleaner through those passages. That will work, but watch out for the carb cleaner... it's nasty stuff and you don't want that flying all over the place. A rag over the carb when you use that would be a good idea.

March 28th, 2011, 04:57 PM	#21
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	I can't say... I don't use that stuff on my carbs, but just test it out on a small portion of tubing and see if it deforms/eats it. I would think it would be relatively safe if you work fast and don't leave it soaking on the rubber parts for very long. just to be clear... this kinda stuff or something similar is what I'm talking about...

March 28th, 2011, 05:33 PM	#23
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	if everything is relatively clean after you spray, wiping it down with a clean cloth should suffice. with carb work, the cleaner you are with your work, the less chance of something getting stuck in one of those little holes you just cleaned out. cleanliness is essential. clean out you jets with the carb cleaner too, while you're at it.

March 28th, 2011, 05:45 PM	#25
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	looking forward to good news. gl...

March 29th, 2011, 06:56 AM	#26
cwb48 Mature motorcyclist Name: Chris Location: Sykesville, MD Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R, blue Posts: 126	Chad; No one else seems to have mentioned this, but make sure that you have removed and cleaned the pilot jets as well as the main jets while you have the carbs apart. They are easy to miss, as they are in a well at the top of the float bowls, and must be removed with a small straight blade screwdriver to be cleaned properly. Clean them until you can see daylight clearly through the tiny hole that is the actual jet. Check Kelly's other posts linked above for photos. Chris

March 29th, 2011, 09:55 AM	#27
Cloud Strife Hot Wheels Name: Paul Location: Niagara Falls Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Kawi Ninja 250R Posts: 64	Update: cleaned out the carbs an the interior components. Carba finally back in and hooked back up. Just about to put the tank back on. Fingers crossed...

March 29th, 2011, 10:13 AM	#28
randomwalk101 self wrencher Name: john Location: houston Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 250r and 07 600r Posts: A lot.	good luck. after the bike is running good, make sure you synch the carb too.

March 29th, 2011, 10:14 AM	#29
Cloud Strife Hot Wheels Name: Paul Location: Niagara Falls Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Kawi Ninja 250R Posts: 64	Alright, so I got the tank back on and hooked up the battery. Turned the petcock to prime and let 'er rip... It's turning over very readily and it wants to start but She's showing no signs of catching. This is reminiscent of earlier in the process when I had to replace the spark plugs in order to make that happen. EDIT: Success! Adjusting the idle speed nozzle seemed to do the trick!!

March 29th, 2011, 12:02 PM	#32
Cloud Strife Hot Wheels Name: Paul Location: Niagara Falls Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Kawi Ninja 250R Posts: 64	Haha well you never know...they might be responsible for the carbs being plugged up anyway! On a side note, and I assume this is a result of the shimming, she sounded SO much better when I was revving her. Lots more throttle response right off the bat : )

March 29th, 2011, 12:10 PM	#34
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...55&postcount=5 congrats!

March 29th, 2011, 12:56 PM	#36
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	go ride the damned thing and have some fun with it before sinking money into it.

March 29th, 2011, 03:59 PM	#38
Cloud Strife Hot Wheels Name: Paul Location: Niagara Falls Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Kawi Ninja 250R Posts: 64	So, took her for a nice rip and am reporting back. Overall I'm thrilled to have her back on the road and zipping about. My only concern with anything is some hesitation below 4000 rpm. I can take her off the line quick without a problem but if I want a slow start (ie like when I'm stuck in traffic) then there seems to be some choppiness up to about 4000 rpm. Oh, and it's still a bit cold

March 29th, 2011, 04:08 PM	#39
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	sounds like it's running better... is it? bring me back up to date. any mods to the intake or exhaust other than the 2 shims added to the needles? the shims should have made the lower rpms a lot smoother/fatter than they had been. did you have any riding time on the bike to find out what the low rpms were like prior to you having your recent problem?