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Old March 13th, 2019, 10:40 AM   #1
Misti
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Body Position and Stability

In one of Keith Code's articles titled, Body position, he talks about his first "law" of body positioning which is "Stability Comes in Pairs. Bike and rider stability are always paired―rider instability transfers directly to the bike."

What do you think he means when he says that rider instability transfers directly into the bike? What kinds of things can show up in someones riding if they are unstable on their bike?

The full article can be found here:
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Old March 13th, 2019, 02:14 PM   #2
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I heart Misti's posts. Always thought-provoking.

I'd say that if you're unstable on the bike, you'll be putting unwanted inputs into it and upsetting the chassis.

It's not good to upset the chassis, for it will bite thee and could very well ruin thy day.

Or in plain English, when you're unstable, you'll cause the bike to be unstable.
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Old March 13th, 2019, 06:36 PM   #3
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I got sent pretty far down the rabbit hole with this post

From the newbie rider standpoint, the article drove home what I had already found I was going to have to dive into in the next week or so as it is starting to warm up.

The five distinct ingredients of body position. Number 1 and 5 are linked together for me. Putting on my adjustable levers asap so I have a better wrist position, finding the right rearsets (Lightech is supposed to be top notch, has oodles of adjustment options, is compatible with the ABS, and is cheaper than Vortex) so my lower body is more comfortable and locked on to the bike, and getting back to a workout routine after being lazy since Christmas. All of that will help with number 4, mastering the core skills of riding well.

I have had way too much time to think and read these last two weeks....
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Old March 19th, 2019, 12:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
I heart Misti's posts. Always thought-provoking.

I'd say that if you're unstable on the bike, you'll be putting unwanted inputs into it and upsetting the chassis.

It's not good to upset the chassis, for it will bite thee and could very well ruin thy day.

Or in plain English, when you're unstable, you'll cause the bike to be unstable.
Awwwwww, thanks!!! That's always the idea, to create thought provoking posts to get riders to really think about their own riding and how to make it better.

Sounds like a perfect explanation to me....when the rider is unstable you cause the bike to be unstable too.

So then the next question, is how to create rider stability? What kinds of things can you do to ensure that you as the rider is the most stable on the bike?
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Old March 19th, 2019, 12:49 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Koala View Post
I got sent pretty far down the rabbit hole with this post

From the newbie rider standpoint, the article drove home what I had already found I was going to have to dive into in the next week or so as it is starting to warm up.

The five distinct ingredients of body position. Number 1 and 5 are linked together for me. Putting on my adjustable levers asap so I have a better wrist position, finding the right rearsets (Lightech is supposed to be top notch, has oodles of adjustment options, is compatible with the ABS, and is cheaper than Vortex) so my lower body is more comfortable and locked on to the bike, and getting back to a workout routine after being lazy since Christmas. All of that will help with number 4, mastering the core skills of riding well.

I have had way too much time to think and read these last two weeks....
Sounds like you have lots to work on too!
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Old March 19th, 2019, 01:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misti View Post
So then the next question, is how to create rider stability? What kinds of things can you do to ensure that you as the rider is the most stable on the bike?
Use repeatable reference points on the bike. I do this when talking to new riders about BP at the track all the time. It's one of the few little contributions I can make.

For me it's a checklist that happens almost by muscle memory:
  • Outside forearm on outside edge of tank.
  • Outside titty on inside edge of tank.
  • Visualize the gas cap under your armpit.
  • Outside knee in solid contact with frame/tank (my legs are too short to drive that knee up into the tank recess).
  • Screwdriver grip on inside hand.
  • Visualize back of inside hand brushing your cheek or ear.
  • Visualize sternum pointing at centerline of bike (drop the inside shoulder).
  • Inside toe on the end of the peg, heel driven into the heel guard/on the swingarm.
  • Instep of outside boot on the peg.
  • Inside edge of seat in the center of your unmentionables area.

Not all of this happens at once, of course.

Approaching the corner, the butt shifts and feet get positioned in keeping with need to shift.

At tip-in, torso and shoulder drop and the other stuff falls into place.
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Old March 29th, 2019, 10:34 AM   #7
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Quote:
Bike and rider stability are always paired...
Quote:
...how to create rider stability?
When I think of 'stability' I tend to repeat the mantra "Fast is smooth, smooth is fast."
To me, a stable rider (and bike) is one that does not make movements that abruptly start or stop - being smooth.
For example, if a rider is transitioning their body position through an S shaped turn, where you move from one side of the bike to the other, your goal should be (if possible) to make the movement in the most gradual and consistent way so that the bike could ideally lean from one side to the other at a constant rate - as a variable rate of lean angle change would be more unstable.
One common instability situation I notice in my own riding is adjusting the bike throughout a corner. Adjusting the bike to turn more or less sharply after the turn begins leads to more instability. If you continue to move your body, and not remain stationary, you end up using your own 'instability' to correct the turn, therefore making you, and the bike, as a pair, more 'unstable'.
The best way to avoid instability is to try to move the least amount necessary :P
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Old April 1st, 2019, 02:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
Use repeatable reference points on the bike. I do this when talking to new riders about BP at the track all the time. It's one of the few little contributions I can make.

For me it's a checklist that happens almost by muscle memory:
  • Outside forearm on outside edge of tank.
  • Outside titty on inside edge of tank.
  • Visualize the gas cap under your armpit.
  • Outside knee in solid contact with frame/tank (my legs are too short to drive that knee up into the tank recess).
  • Screwdriver grip on inside hand.
  • Visualize back of inside hand brushing your cheek or ear.
  • Visualize sternum pointing at centerline of bike (drop the inside shoulder).
  • Inside toe on the end of the peg, heel driven into the heel guard/on the swingarm.
  • Instep of outside boot on the peg.
  • Inside edge of seat in the center of your unmentionables area.

Not all of this happens at once, of course.

Approaching the corner, the butt shifts and feet get positioned in keeping with need to shift.

At tip-in, torso and shoulder drop and the other stuff falls into place.
So awesome. Love all these points you have touched on and yes, having these done will help you be nice and stable on the bike with your lower body which allows you to keep your upper body nice and relaxed.

One thing you mention is short legs that done reach the tank recess....have you experimented with sitting back in the seat a little bit and pressing the ball of your foot into the peg and lifting your calf up (like a calf raise on the peg?). This small little movement often allows those of us with short legs to drive our knee up a little higher so that it does fit into the tank recess. Give it a try and let me know if it changes anything. I do this to get a more secure lock on....

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Old April 1st, 2019, 08:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
Use repeatable reference points on the bike. I do this when talking to new riders about BP at the track all the time. It's one of the few little contributions I can make.

For me it's a checklist that happens almost by muscle memory:
  • Outside forearm on outside edge of tank.
  • Outside titty on inside edge of tank.
  • Visualize the gas cap under your armpit.
  • Outside knee in solid contact with frame/tank (my legs are too short to drive that knee up into the tank recess).
  • Screwdriver grip on inside hand.
  • Visualize back of inside hand brushing your cheek or ear.
  • Visualize sternum pointing at centerline of bike (drop the inside shoulder).
  • Inside toe on the end of the peg, heel driven into the heel guard/on the swingarm.
  • Instep of outside boot on the peg.
  • Inside edge of seat in the center of your unmentionables area.

Not all of this happens at once, of course.

Approaching the corner, the butt shifts and feet get positioned in keeping with need to shift.

At tip-in, torso and shoulder drop and the other stuff falls into place.
is the screwdriver grip a thing of the past, with race orgs requiring lever guards?
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Old April 1st, 2019, 09:59 PM   #10
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You can still do screwdriver grip with lever guard.
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Old April 2nd, 2019, 06:22 AM   #11
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You can still do screwdriver grip with lever guard.
i must envision the grip wrong, or i hold the screwdriver wrong,
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Old April 2nd, 2019, 07:30 AM   #12
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I'd be interested in your thoughts about something, @Misti. About ten years ago I went to Deals Gap for the first time. I had ridden since 1978, always on public roads in the east. I was not used to moving around on a motorcycle, only maybe occasionally shifting inward a little in places like entrance ramps.

The Dragon was something I was not used to, but was immediately tons of fun for me. The first day I was there I learned that moving my body inward on turns made me feel a lot more confident than staying aligned with the centerline of the motorcycle. In just a few miles I was dragging the little side stand deployment lever on my '72 H2.

Since then, by taking my little DT100 roadracer to the Supermoto track, I suddently became aware that when a knee puck touches down, I get another whole step increase of relaxed confidence. Once that third contact patch is working, any anxiety about the turn disappears.

I've never heard anyone else describe the mental boost of weight shifting or knee dragging this way, but I can't believe that it doesn't happen to others.
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Old April 2nd, 2019, 08:03 AM   #13
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i must envision the grip wrong, or i hold the screwdriver wrong,
Do you actually put your palm over the end of a screwdriver?

I don't.

Here's the standard photo... but remember that your bike's grips are longer. The end sticks out beyond the heel of your palm.

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Old April 2nd, 2019, 12:45 PM   #14
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adouglas gotcha. i do that, but i do hold a screwdriver with the end of the handle in my palm.
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Old April 2nd, 2019, 12:51 PM   #15
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here you go , screwdriver grip
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Old April 5th, 2019, 02:14 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
I'd be interested in your thoughts about something, @Misti. About ten years ago I went to Deals Gap for the first time. I had ridden since 1978, always on public roads in the east. I was not used to moving around on a motorcycle, only maybe occasionally shifting inward a little in places like entrance ramps.

The Dragon was something I was not used to, but was immediately tons of fun for me. The first day I was there I learned that moving my body inward on turns made me feel a lot more confident than staying aligned with the centerline of the motorcycle. In just a few miles I was dragging the little side stand deployment lever on my '72 H2.

Since then, by taking my little DT100 roadracer to the Supermoto track, I suddently became aware that when a knee puck touches down, I get another whole step increase of relaxed confidence. Once that third contact patch is working, any anxiety about the turn disappears.

I've never heard anyone else describe the mental boost of weight shifting or knee dragging this way, but I can't believe that it doesn't happen to others.
I understand what you mean. When you move your body over to the inside of the corner, you are then able to lean the bike over LESS so there is increased available traction and with that, a more stable bike. When you get your body position dialled and the knee touches the ground, its like having a little lean angle gauge. You know exactly where you are in terms of how much you are leaning, and that in itself can give you confidence.

There is often a misunderstanding of how and why riders hang off. Many think that you want to lean the bike over MORE (hence the desire to rid the tires of "chicken strips") when in actual fact you want to lean the bike over as little as possible for a given turn.

Does that fit with what you were trying to explain?

I know that when I'm railing around a corner in good form with knee down I can feel pretty darn confident too!!
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Old April 5th, 2019, 02:42 PM   #17
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Does that fit with what you were trying to explain?

I know that when I'm railing around a corner in good form with knee down I can feel pretty darn confident too!!
Yes exactly, thanks. And yes, "lean angle gauge" is a good description. That supermoto track at VIR has a horrible uphill way-off-camber left turn, and the lean angle gauge really helps keep me from overdoing it and sliding out.

As far as body position, I'm not sure the only thing that's making me more comfortable is the less-leaning motorcycle. There seems to be something in my head that likes the position better. Maybe it's a visual thing, with a clearer view of the plane of the road in my peripheral vision. In any case, I'm amazed when I see someone taking corners well, but staying in line with the centerline of the bike.
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Old April 17th, 2019, 10:10 AM   #18
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Yes exactly, thanks. And yes, "lean angle gauge" is a good description. That supermoto track at VIR has a horrible uphill way-off-camber left turn, and the lean angle gauge really helps keep me from overdoing it and sliding out.

As far as body position, I'm not sure the only thing that's making me more comfortable is the less-leaning motorcycle. There seems to be something in my head that likes the position better. Maybe it's a visual thing, with a clearer view of the plane of the road in my peripheral vision. In any case, I'm amazed when I see someone taking corners well, but staying in line with the centerline of the bike.
Maybe it's a visual thing for sure. Head position and how well you can see with your peripheral view has a huge impact on how comfortable you feel when riding.

What do you notice about the following pic (Etechphoto.com)
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Old April 17th, 2019, 08:57 PM   #19
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One thing is that the leader has his head nearly vertical and is hanging off, and the follower pretty much has his body and head in line with the motorcycle.

Of course it's possible the follower is so skilled that the leader is holding him back and he's just sitting it out until he passes.
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Old April 17th, 2019, 09:10 PM   #20
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the leader is looking for his next mark, the man behind seams more concerned about what his front tire is running over.
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Old April 18th, 2019, 06:40 AM   #21
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True, probably watching the motorcycle in front of him.
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Old April 19th, 2019, 02:36 AM   #22
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Stability all comes from lower body positioning. You don’t need to worry about a screwdriver grip or how low your head is till lower body timing and positioning is spot on. There’s tons of good videos from Troy Corser and Simon Crafar about this. Aggressive upper body positions will help you carry a touch more mid corner speed but at our level it’s not super important.
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Old April 19th, 2019, 05:07 AM   #23
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Stability all comes from lower body positioning. You don’t need to worry about a screwdriver grip or how low your head is till lower body timing and positioning is spot on. There’s tons of good videos from Troy Corser and Simon Crafar about this. Aggressive upper body positions will help you carry a touch more mid corner speed but at our level it’s not super important.
ALL? That's a pretty absolute statement. I don't see it that way. It's not a binary thing, where one part exists in isolation. It's all connected... because your body is connected.

I do agree that the lower body movement is the foundation of good body position... but "stability all comes from lower body positioning" can be a bit misleading. Stability of the bike comes from not poking it unnecessarily... putting in unwanted inputs for whatever reason. Those unwanted inputs can have a variety of sources, such as too much tension.

If your lower body is properly positioned but you're so bound up and crossed up that you're wrestling the bars, then you're making steering inputs that you shouldn't. Fair? If you agree with this, then the rest of the body must matter too.

Let's build the case from the ground up to see why things like placement of your head and how you hold the grips do in fact matter. I'd never say the lower body doesn't matter. It's part of the picture too. But only part.

Let's take it as a given that we start with the lower body. I agree with you, as far as your statement goes.

So, premise: The reason why we hang off is to shift the center of gravity of the bike-plus-rider system to the inside of the turn. Agreed?

The effect of this is to allow the bike to be more vertical for a given corner radius at a given speed.

The question to answer: What's an efficient way to achieve this center of gravity shift? Lower body, yes, but....

Consider this: The human head weighs about as much as a bowling ball. Add a couple of pounds for the helmet.

Ask yourself: If you were to take a bowling ball and hold it a couple of feet to one side of the bike's centerline, do you think that would have a significant effect on the placement of the bike-plus-rider center of gravity? I sure do.

Therefore position of the head matters. And by extension, so does position of the torso.

Next question: What do we do on the bike to allow us to shift all that meat, bone and fat over to one side? We reorient our body to allow us to move. Agreed?

Yes, it does start with the lower body. Moving your butt over does two things. First, it moves the mass of your a$$ to the inside, so you're partway there already. But keep going. It also sets you up to move the body above the waist to one side.

So what else besides moving in the seat? Well, if you keep both legs clamped to the bike once you move your butt, you'll find that it's really difficult to move your torso to one side. Swinging your leg out and rotating your foot opens up your pelvis and makes it a lot easier. So that matters.

Okay, so what about the grip? Once you move your torso over, the angle of your wrist starts to get pretty severe. Tension builds up in your forearm and that leads to unwanted inputs. To relieve this, you can straighten the wrist joint by using the screwdriver grip. So grip matters too.
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Old April 19th, 2019, 04:25 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
ALL? That's a pretty absolute statement. I don't see it that way. It's not a binary thing, where one part exists in isolation. It's all connected... because your body is connected.

I do agree that the lower body movement is the foundation of good body position... but "stability all comes from lower body positioning" can be a bit misleading. Stability of the bike comes from not poking it unnecessarily... putting in unwanted inputs for whatever reason. Those unwanted inputs can have a variety of sources, such as too much tension.

If your lower body is properly positioned but you're so bound up and crossed up that you're wrestling the bars, then you're making steering inputs that you shouldn't. Fair? If you agree with this, then the rest of the body must matter too.

Let's build the case from the ground up to see why things like placement of your head and how you hold the grips do in fact matter. I'd never say the lower body doesn't matter. It's part of the picture too. But only part.

Let's take it as a given that we start with the lower body. I agree with you, as far as your statement goes.

So, premise: The reason why we hang off is to shift the center of gravity of the bike-plus-rider system to the inside of the turn. Agreed?

The effect of this is to allow the bike to be more vertical for a given corner radius at a given speed.

The question to answer: What's an efficient way to achieve this center of gravity shift? Lower body, yes, but....

Consider this: The human head weighs about as much as a bowling ball. Add a couple of pounds for the helmet.

Ask yourself: If you were to take a bowling ball and hold it a couple of feet to one side of the bike's centerline, do you think that would have a significant effect on the placement of the bike-plus-rider center of gravity? I sure do.

Therefore position of the head matters. And by extension, so does position of the torso.

Next question: What do we do on the bike to allow us to shift all that meat, bone and fat over to one side? We reorient our body to allow us to move. Agreed?

Yes, it does start with the lower body. Moving your butt over does two things. First, it moves the mass of your a$$ to the inside, so you're partway there already. But keep going. It also sets you up to move the body above the waist to one side.

So what else besides moving in the seat? Well, if you keep both legs clamped to the bike once you move your butt, you'll find that it's really difficult to move your torso to one side. Swinging your leg out and rotating your foot opens up your pelvis and makes it a lot easier. So that matters.

Okay, so what about the grip? Once you move your torso over, the angle of your wrist starts to get pretty severe. Tension builds up in your forearm and that leads to unwanted inputs. To relieve this, you can straighten the wrist joint by using the screwdriver grip. So grip matters too.
Very good breakdown. Can you like posts on this forum? Lol
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Old April 19th, 2019, 05:03 PM   #25
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Very good breakdown. Can you like posts on this forum? Lol
You can in a way. I believe you have to have 1,000 or more posts. I wish I could as well. @adouglas your comments, as always, were entertaining and informative!
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Old April 19th, 2019, 09:38 PM   #26
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Adouglas I’ve never seen anyone so crossed up they can’t make steering or brake inputs. Hell look at Mick Doohan. If you build a good foundation with proper foot and hip placement and timing you can make it work very well.
If your lower positioning isnt right you’ll end up hanging on the bars too much or just exhausting yourself trying to stay balanced. You’ll cause more problems by trying aggressive head down motogp like positioning before you have built a good solid foundation. Good solid well timed lower body movements and positioning will always lead to more stability. Aggressive Márquez like upper body positioning will only work if you have a great foundation for it. Otherwise you’ll just create more problems.
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Old April 20th, 2019, 04:01 AM   #27
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The way I read it he made a point to say that lower body was a very important part of a larger picture. Like most things, it isn't just one part of positioning that's going to save the day. In all my racing schools, they taught simply sliding your ass over in the seat isn't going to be the fastest way, but to also work on getting your head towards where the mirror was as well.
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Old April 20th, 2019, 05:27 AM   #28
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Adouglas I’ve never seen anyone so crossed up they can’t make steering or brake inputs. Hell look at Mick Doohan. If you build a good foundation with proper foot and hip placement and timing you can make it work very well.
If that's the message you got then I didn't communicate clearly enough. What I said was that if your body is all torqued and tense, you're more likely to put UNWANTED inputs into the bike.

People point to Doohan as if his highly unusual crossed-up style somehow invalidates what everyone else does. There are always exceptions. That does not make the exception a best practice.

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If your lower positioning isnt right you’ll end up hanging on the bars too much or just exhausting yourself trying to stay balanced. You’ll cause more problems by trying aggressive head down motogp like positioning before you have built a good solid foundation. Good solid well timed lower body movements and positioning will always lead to more stability. Aggressive Márquez like upper body positioning will only work if you have a great foundation for it. Otherwise you’ll just create more problems.
Agreed.. Lower BP is essential but it's not ALL about that. Which is what I was responding to.

I would point out that if you're hanging your a$$ way off and struggling to keep your chest and head over the bike's centerline, you're going to be hanging off the bars too. That's my point.

Saying that stability is all in the lower body and the rest of it doesn't matter doesn't ring true to me. Saying that the lower body is a critical element of a larger whole is spot on IMHO.

When you look at current fast racers, you'll see that they're quite relaxed and almost hugging the bike. No tension in the arms, loose shoulders... and that means no undesirable bar inputs.

When I started riding track five years ago I struggled with tenseness, arm pump, all of that... so I went to school by really watching racers closely (love those super-slo-mo shots). It struck me that they weren't wrestling the bike into submission so much as hugging it. This mental image helped me relax. And when I relaxed, the bike was happier and everything got smoother.

If you're playing along at home go try something. Hop on your bike and get one butt cheek off. Grasp the bars and put your head and chest over the centerline of the bike... get crossed up. You'll feel tension in your torso because you have to contort yourself to get into that position. You'll probably also feel tension in your arms and hands because it's likely you're actually pulling on the bars to get yourself into that position.

Now try it this way: Get one butt cheek off. Lean forward onto the tank, drop your shoulder and relax your upper body. If your legs and core are supporting you properly you should be able to let go of the bars.

What position does your torso naturally take? Can you sit there without hanging onto the bars? Where's the tension in your body? Not in your shoulders and arms, right?

Bottom line: Lower body positioning is critical. Upper body positioning is also critical. Neither one exists in isolation.
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Old April 20th, 2019, 06:45 AM   #29
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@adouglas for those of us playing along at home, can we try out body positioning while the bike is resting on the kickstand? Or should it be on a rear stand, or need to be on front and rear stand? Don't wish to fall over
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Old April 20th, 2019, 07:16 AM   #30
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Rearstand at least, though that will pitch the bike forward. Both stands is ideal. You can get off quite a bit when on stands. If you're nervous set up near a wall, far enough that you can move to one side but close enough to put a hand on the wall if you feel things start to get unstable.

PS: When you come out here in August hit up the classroom sessions. One of them (usually after lunch) is always a BP session where they put people on a bike. Be sure to step up and volunteer to be a guinea pig. I can also give you some tips in the paddock if you like.

PPS: In the grand scheme of things this is NOT the most important aspect of riding. There's a tendency (sheepishly raising my hand here) to emphasize body position because it makes you look and feel racy... but vision, smoothness, consistency, throttle control and braking are ALL far more important than striking the perfect pose.

Having said that, it's part of the package. If you ignore any part entirely, ultimately you'll create problems for yourself. That goes back to the comment above... if you completely ignore the upper body in favor of the lower body, you're missing the point.

It's a matter of priority. Focus first on the fundamentals. That doesn't mean completely blow off the rest... it just means that you should solve for the most important aspects first.
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Old May 2nd, 2019, 04:56 AM   #31
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here you go , screwdriver grip
whoa! flashback!

That pic is my friend Melo, (back of leathers). Pic was taken at Mid-ohio turn 1. Good times back in 2015.... good times.
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Old May 7th, 2019, 02:16 PM   #32
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One thing is that the leader has his head nearly vertical and is hanging off, and the follower pretty much has his body and head in line with the motorcycle.

Of course it's possible the follower is so skilled that the leader is holding him back and he's just sitting it out until he passes.
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the leader is looking for his next mark, the man behind seams more concerned about what his front tire is running over.
Hahahah, actually I'm the follower, coaching the rider in front. The point I was trying to make is that different riding abilities will determine how much the rider needs to lean or hang off the motorcycle. So yes, I'm more skilled than the rider in front and can get away with sitting straight up and down on the bike going the same speed as him. If I left him and took off at my own pace I'd have to start hanging off.

Heehehe and it's funny about the comments on what the riders are looking at. For sure it appears as if I'm looking at what my front tire is running over but I'm not. I'm watching my student in front of me and if you look closely you can see I'm not right behind him but offset a little bit so that I have an out if he makes a mistake. I'm also looking past him and where I'm heading next and my vision is wide enough that I can see the entire track from side to side, but I see it could look like I'm watching the back of his tire.

Anyway, hahaha maybe not the best representation of what I was trying to explain. At higher speeds and certain ability levels, hanging off is required in order to reduce the amount of lean angle needed to safely get around the corner. I'll address the other comments about stability etc later on....gotta get the kiddos from school
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Old May 13th, 2019, 10:15 AM   #33
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Adouglas I’ve never seen anyone so crossed up they can’t make steering or brake inputs. Hell look at Mick Doohan. If you build a good foundation with proper foot and hip placement and timing you can make it work very well.
If your lower positioning isnt right you’ll end up hanging on the bars too much or just exhausting yourself trying to stay balanced. You’ll cause more problems by trying aggressive head down motogp like positioning before you have built a good solid foundation. Good solid well timed lower body movements and positioning will always lead to more stability. Aggressive Márquez like upper body positioning will only work if you have a great foundation for it. Otherwise you’ll just create more problems.
Both you guys are correct, just wording is different. YES, lower body stability is PARAMOUNT to being able to relax and not put unwanted pressure into the handlebars, BUT you can still mess up body position even with a stable and correctly placed lower body.... Good body position is a combination of correct and comfortable placement of lots of parts, but it does start with a solid lower foundation....
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