Ninja 300 w/ QS drops down in gear

[kalleh]

Just came back from a great AFM weekend at Buttonwillow - it was a blast!

However, during the entire weekend I had problems with falling out of 5th and 6th gear (mostly 6th) - not into neutral but into one gear down. Needless to say, this made for some exciting fast corners, and brought be off the track once (because I was surprised by it, when it happened later I rode it out).

I'm using a Dynojet QS, I'm not sure if that's related or not. "Double-pushing" down the lever seemed to help a lot (while keeping the lever down to not trigger another QS shift), but certainly didn't make it disappear.

Any thoughts here? Anyone experienced something similar on the track and solved it? I can certainly just ride it and be prepared for it to happen, but it would be nice if that mental capacity could be spent going faster.

[csmith12]

[kalleh]

Uh oh, what did I step in to.

[alex.s]

[garth285]

Are you running your shifter in reverse? Meaning to go from 1st to 2nd you have to push the lever down?

Or to go from 1st to 2nd do you have to pull up? Give us as much info as you can about your setup!

[alex.s]

is the timing for the QS adjustable per gear? maybe you can simply set the kill for 5 and 6 higher? they make aftermarket shift hub locker springs that make it lock in a bit better. alternatively you can simply shim the current spring. another option is an aftermarket shift star, or even simply grinding your oem shift star to be steeper.

[garth285]

Not saying this could be your issue but I have had a "lazy" shifter before where it took a little bit of pushing to get into gear, cause was a worn out shift detent sping.

The shifter detent spring keeps pressure on the detent arm... the detent arm keeps the shift star which is connected to the shift drum which decides which gear to throw... ** Sorry if I lost you there**

Basically if that spring looses its tension it could fall out of gear. Factory pro makes a replacement arm and spring and their stuff has worked great for many many years. You may want to check it out but I just looked and its $100 bucks for their kit or you can buy a new spring from the factory MSRP is $1.37 lol... part number 92145-0895

[garth285]

Originally Posted by alex.s

alternatively you can simply shim the current spring

The spring shim is for a 250, the ninja 300 went to a different design where you cant shim anything.

[alex.s]

ah. nevermind then! i need to buy a 300.

[garth285]

Originally Posted by alex.s

ah. nevermind then! i need to buy a 300.

I'm with ya on that!

I'm about to scrap my turbo 250 project... maybe I should just turbo a 300

[alex.s]

just buy an h3 :P

[kalleh]

Thanks for all the great replies! I was a bit worried I had entered a mine field by the initial popcorn, but this thread is turning out great.

I'm running Woodcraft rearsets, GP-shift, and a Dynojet QS unit attached to a Power Commander V. I have not attached the speed pickup to the PCV, so I can't do per-gear timing at the moment.

I'll certainly look into the options suggested above, I've also heard racers putting on the "Pro Shift Detent Arm and Spring Kit " from Factory Pro which seems to work in line with what people are suggesting above.

Edit: And the factory pro kit has already been suggested, thank you garth and sorry for missing that part when reading through the thread

[garth285]

Good info.... question for ya.... does it happen immediately when you are shifting or will it do it only at say part throttle or something like that?

I'd say if you can spare the $100 go for the shift kit, factory pro kits are great, a little pricy for a spring and a arm but their ball bearing roller in my opinion is the best part of the upgrade.

[garth285]

Oh also forgot to ask, do you know what the kill time is set to?

[alex.s]

i would think it would solve your issues if you got the speed sensor so you can set the cutoff time for 5 and 6 higher

[kalleh]

Originally Posted by garth285

Good info.... question for ya.... does it happen immediately when you are shifting or will it do it only at say part throttle or something like that?

I'd say if you can spare the $100 go for the shift kit, factory pro kits are great, a little pricy for a spring and a arm but their ball bearing roller in my opinion is the best part of the upgrade.

No, it's usually slipping out a couple of seconds after the shift. Sometimes only a couple of moments after, sometimes a few secs.

Kill time is 65ms.

Originally Posted by alex.s

i would think it would solve your issues if you got the speed sensor so you can set the cutoff time for 5 and 6 higher

Would that be a shorter or a longer kill time that is required?

[garth285]

you normally shorten up the shift kill time as you go up in gear, most people will shorten it by 5ms per gear after 2nd.

1 - 65
2 - 65
3 - 60
4 - 55
5 - 50
6 - 45

[garth285]

If its doing it after you shift though I dont think its your quick shifter, I'd say if the shift detent spring.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by kalleh

Thanks for all the great replies! I was a bit worried I had entered a mine field by the initial popcorn, but this thread is turning out great.

Yep!!!

Sorry about the popcorn giving you the wrong impression. I like learning stuff.

Great info thus far!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by kalleh

........... Any thoughts here?..........

Before going into major surgery, I would check the easy probable cause first: the external mechanism.

Ask a friend switch gears while the tire can rotate and pay attention to the extreme positions of the mechanism regarding hitting some solid part or simply adopting a position of poor leverage at the end of the stroke.

If you find nothing wrong, post some pics later.

[kalleh]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Before going into major surgery, I would check the easy probable cause first: the external mechanism.

Ask a friend switch gears while the tire can rotate and pay attention to the extreme positions of the mechanism regarding hitting some solid part or simply adopting a position of poor leverage at the end of the stroke.

If you find nothing wrong, post some pics later.

Will do that too next time the bike is out of the van - thanks!

[kalleh]

Originally Posted by garth285

you normally shorten up the shift kill time as you go up in gear, most people will shorten it by 5ms per gear after 2nd.

1 - 65
2 - 65
3 - 60
4 - 55
5 - 50
6 - 45

If its doing it after you shift though I dont think its your quick shifter, I'd say if the shift detent spring.

Factory Pro is pretty local to me, so I'll talk to them about their spring/shift kit- I saw that they do dyno work too and my bike is still on a stock map so I can probably kill two birds with one stone.

[ithaca00]

Originally Posted by kalleh

Just came back from a great AFM weekend at Buttonwillow - it was a blast!

...and brought be off the track once (because I was surprised by it...

was that you in Cotton Corners in one of the later Saturday practice sessions?

[kalleh]

Originally Posted by ithaca00

was that you in Cotton Corners in one of the later Saturday practice sessions?

I went off (but not down) after cotton corners but it was on Friday afternoon. Thankfully I stayed on track sat/sun btw I'm twistybits on BARF (AFM#977).

[kalleh]

To be specific went off in club corner.

[ithaca00]

That must have been Friday I was thinking of. I think you had just passed me on the front straight or out of #2 then I saw you in the dirt.

And I'm always confused where Cotton starts and ends. Ha! I spent 10 minutes talking to people about coming over the wheelie bump there (and me not knowing what it was called) before everyone came to an agreement as to what we were talking about.

I'm me on BARF. lol

Good luck with the QS. I've got the standard issues of popping out of gear at the wrong times...

I'll see you at Sonoma!

[kalleh]

Here's the video of me dirt tracking (of course on the gopro the downshift looks like a complete non-event, in real life the rear end felt pretty messed up! Anyway, had I been mentally prepared I wouldn't have gone off)

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155331248235414

[ithaca00]

Originally Posted by kalleh

Here's the video of me dirt tracking (of course on the gopro the downshift looks like a complete non-event, in real life the rear end felt pretty messed up! Anyway, had I been mentally prepared I wouldn't have gone off)

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155331248235414

Oh, THAT corner! I definitely remember that now. I was the white/black bike behind you.

[Somchai]

@kalleh, allow me to ask a silly question please.
When I look at the PC-Website I can see they offer the push type sensor 4-114 for the 300 only and while you have gp-shift, do you have the right sensor since for gp-shift you need the pull type sensor?
If you have the right one please forget about my question.

[kalleh]

Originally Posted by Somchai

@kalleh, allow me to ask a silly question please.
When I look at the PC-Website I can see they offer the push type sensor 4-114 for the 300 only and while you have gp-shift, do you have the right sensor since for gp-shift you need the pull type sensor?
If you have the right one please forget about my question.

Yes, for gp shift you need a pull sensor. If you want a push I have one in a box to sell you...

[GregS]

Some of the CMRA guys are having the same problems on the 300

http://www.cmraracing.com/showthread...Shifting-Issue

I'm also having a problem, but only on hard braking/deceleration. Coming into a corner after hard braking, I'll let off the brakes and while under engine braking start turning in and it will seem to pop out of gear, it will them re-engage a second or two later which has almost caused me to high side a couple of times.

[kalleh]

Originally Posted by GregS

Some of the CMRA guys are having the same problems on the 300

http://www.cmraracing.com/showthread...Shifting-Issue

I'm also having a problem, but only on hard braking/deceleration. Coming into a corner after hard braking, I'll let off the brakes and while under engine braking start turning in and it will seem to pop out of gear, it will them re-engage a second or two later which has almost caused me to high side a couple of times.

I guess this is what we bring on ourselves for racing cheap, ****** bikes. But god are they fun on the track

I have a factory pro spring kit on the way, will make a point to make sure the entire mechanism is working optimally as well. I'll report back after the next race which is 2-3 May.

edit: wow, s h i t t y is a banned word?

[Hero Danny]

Link to original page on YouTube.

[GregS]

Originally Posted by kalleh

I guess this is what we bring on ourselves for racing cheap, ****** bikes. But god are they fun on the track

I have a factory pro spring kit on the way, will make a point to make sure the entire mechanism is working optimally as well. I'll report back after the next race which is 2-3 May.

Are you doing just the spring or the shifter star as well?

[bruce71198]

Originally Posted by kalleh

Here's the video of me dirt tracking (of course on the gopro the downshift looks like a complete non-event, in real life the rear end felt pretty messed up! Anyway, had I been mentally prepared I wouldn't have gone off)

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155331248235414

did that short cut improve your lap time?

[bruce71198]

all 3 of my track bikes down shift from 6 to 5 regulary. one has a quick shifter, 2 have the factory spring and the 3rd is all stock,

[kalleh]

Originally Posted by bruce71198

all 3 of my track bikes down shift from 6 to 5 regulary. one has a quick shifter, 2 have the factory spring and the 3rd is all stock,

I've noticed mine doesn't do it if I clutch-shift. I've decided to do the next race round as-is and do clutch-shifts in critical corners where a downshift might cause harm to me or fellow racers.

Sad to hear that the factory pro kit doesn't seem to work for this issue

[kalleh]

Originally Posted by bruce71198

did that short cut improve your lap time?

Sadly those are two going-through-with-throttle-pinned corners, so no...

[kalleh]

Originally Posted by GregS

Are you doing just the spring or the shifter star as well?

The spring and the arm-thing, not the star.

[bruce71198]

Originally Posted by kalleh

I've noticed mine doesn't do it if I clutch-shift. I've decided to do the next race round as-is and do clutch-shifts in critical corners where a downshift might cause harm to me or fellow racers.

Sad to hear that the factory pro kit doesn't seem to work for this issue

The spring helped but didn't cure the problem. I am a big fan of that spring. It makes a noticeable improvement in gear engagement as I had problems in other gears. It eliminated the jump in the lower gears and reduced it in 6 to 5. Some have complained of the added shift effort but honestly after the first couple sessions it was a non issue for me.
I will try the clutch shift for 5/6 upshift this weekend and see if it helps.