HELP! Cleaned carbs, fixed ninja, now broken again!!

[synapsekiller17]

I THOUGHT I fixed my ninja by cleaning the carbs. It ran for 30 minutes, I parked it, then rode it ten minutes to the gas station to fill up with premium. Bike wouldn't start and when it did, I had to keep it at 6K rpm to keep it running. I recleaned the carbs, replaced plugs and cleaned the filter, but it won't run for more than a minute (and I have to hold throttle half open) before dying. Then it drops a ton of gas on the ground. I found out the gas was coming from the airbox drain when I opened the airbox and found the filter was soaked!
The carb has been completely cleaned because the previous owner let it sit. I even measure float heights and blew all the lines clean with air.

Can anybody with experience or a similar problem please help?

Thank you,
Camron

[bdavison]

Sounds to me like either its set to "prime" and flooding the engine, or you have a float valve that isnt closing.

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by synapsekiller17

Then it drops a ton of gas on the ground. I found out the gas was coming from the airbox drain when I opened the airbox and found the filter was soaked!

Sounds like a needle/seat problem.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by HKr1

Sounds like a needle/seat problem.

+1

It's the float needle.

[synapsekiller17]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

+1

It's the float needle.

I cleaned the float needles though! One of the float needle springs was sticking slightly so I cleaned it with carb cleaner and it worked fine. The rubber needle tips are perfectly cone shaped and I cleaned the float needle seats.

Even if the needles aren't seating correctly why would it dump so much fuel UP into the airbox???

[synapsekiller17]

Also, I noticed my petcock drips slowly in the ON position. What can I do to fix it?

[kkim]

Originally Posted by synapsekiller17

Also, I noticed my petcock drips slowly in the ON position. What can I do to fix it?

replace it.

I take it your gas mileage sucks, too?

[bob138]

Also a quick side question: Why premium gas? Is the timing advanced?

Bob

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by synapsekiller17

I cleaned the float needles though! One of the float needle springs was sticking slightly so I cleaned it with carb cleaner and it worked fine. The rubber needle tips are perfectly cone shaped and I cleaned the float needle seats.

Even if the needles aren't seating correctly why would it dump so much fuel UP into the airbox???

Cleaning the float needle doesn't solve the issue if in fact that's the cause. If the needle floats are rounded you HAVE to replace them. Trust me...I've been there.

How old is your bike anyways? How many miles?

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by bob138

Also a quick side question: Why premium gas? Is the timing advanced?

Bob

At the name-brand stations, premium typically comes with more additives to clean out your fuel system (detergents/cleansers, etc). It's still a rip off (nothing Seafoam won't do), but when he's specifically troubleshooting a fuel system issue, I can't say I blame him.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by CZroe

At the name-brand stations, premium typically comes with more additives to clean out your fuel system (detergents/cleansers, etc). It's still a rip off (nothing Seafoam won't do), but when he's specifically troubleshooting a fuel system issue, I can't say I blame him.

according to the chevron site, all their grades of gas come with techron.
http://www.chevron.com/products/prod.../gasoline.aspx

as long as he's using a top tier brand gasoline, he can be sure their are detergent/cleaning additives in the gas he's using, no matter what the grade.

nowhere can I find anything about the higher grades having more cleaning additives.

[g21-30]

Originally Posted by CZroe

At the name-brand stations, premium typically comes with more additives to clean out your fuel system (detergents/cleansers, etc). It's still a rip off (nothing Seafoam won't do), but when he's specifically troubleshooting a fuel system issue, I can't say I blame him.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...nd-regular-gas

Here is an excerpt from the above line:

In most of the U.S., regular gas has an octane rating of 87, midgrade gas is 89, and premium is 91 or 92. (Octane ratings are lower in the mountain west due to the effects of thin air on internal combustion.) Contrary to widespread belief, the octane rating doesn't indicate how much power the fuel delivers; all grades of gasoline contain roughly the same amount of heat energy. Rather, a higher octane rating means the fuel is less likely to cause your engine to knock or ping. Knock, also known as detonation, occurs when part of the fuel-air mixture in one or more of your car's cylinders ignites spontaneously due to compression, independent of the combustion initiated by the spark plug. (The ideal gas law tells us that a gas heats up when compressed.) Instead of a controlled burn, you get what amounts to an explosion--not a good thing for your engine. To avoid this, high-octane gas is formulated to burn slower than regular, making it less likely to ignite without benefit of spark.

The majority of cars are designed to run on regular gas, and that's what the manuals tell the owners to use. Higher-performance cars often require midgrade or premium gas because their engines are designed for higher compression (higher compression = more power), and regular gas may cause knock. If your car needs high-octane gas, the manual will say so.

Using high-octane gas in a car designed for regular accomplishes little except more rapid combustion of your money. Some refuse to believe this, claiming, for example, that premium gives the family Toyota better mileage or more power. These people are in dreamland. Others say premium is purer or contains detergents that will cleanse your engine of uncouth deposits. Likewise misguided thinking--government regulations require detergents in all grades of gasoline. (BP Amoco, I notice, asserts that its premium gasoline contains more detergents than legally required; if you think that's worth 20 extra cents a gallon, be my guest.) Some automotive types claim that using premium in a car designed for regular will make the engine dirtier--something about deposits on the back side of the intake valves. I've also heard that slower-burning high-octane gas produces less power when used in ordinary cars. Believe what you like; the point is, don't assume "premium" means "better."

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by g21-30

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...nd-regular-gas

Here is an excerpt from the above line:

In most of the U.S., regular gas has an octane rating of 87, midgrade gas is 89, and premium is 91 or 92. (Octane ratings are lower in the mountain west due to the effects of thin air on internal combustion.) Contrary to widespread belief, the octane rating doesn't indicate how much power the fuel delivers; all grades of gasoline contain roughly the same amount of heat energy. Rather, a higher octane rating means the fuel is less likely to cause your engine to knock or ping. Knock, also known as detonation, occurs when part of the fuel-air mixture in one or more of your car's cylinders ignites spontaneously due to compression, independent of the combustion initiated by the spark plug. (The ideal gas law tells us that a gas heats up when compressed.) Instead of a controlled burn, you get what amounts to an explosion--not a good thing for your engine. To avoid this, high-octane gas is formulated to burn slower than regular, making it less likely to ignite without benefit of spark.

The majority of cars are designed to run on regular gas, and that's what the manuals tell the owners to use. Higher-performance cars often require midgrade or premium gas because their engines are designed for higher compression (higher compression = more power), and regular gas may cause knock. If your car needs high-octane gas, the manual will say so.

Using high-octane gas in a car designed for regular accomplishes little except more rapid combustion of your money. Some refuse to believe this, claiming, for example, that premium gives the family Toyota better mileage or more power. These people are in dreamland. Others say premium is purer or contains detergents that will cleanse your engine of uncouth deposits. Likewise misguided thinking--government regulations require detergents in all grades of gasoline. (BP Amoco, I notice, asserts that its premium gasoline contains more detergents than legally required; if you think that's worth 20 extra cents a gallon, be my guest.) Some automotive types claim that using premium in a car designed for regular will make the engine dirtier--something about deposits on the back side of the intake valves. I've also heard that slower-burning high-octane gas produces less power when used in ordinary cars. Believe what you like; the point is, don't assume "premium" means "better."

Yup. This is all exactly what I have read before and exactly why I said that it's a rip off even with extra detergents.

[synapsekiller17]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Cleaning the float needle doesn't solve the issue if in fact that's the cause. If the needle floats are rounded you HAVE to replace them. Trust me...I've been there.

How old is your bike anyways? How many miles?

My point is that they are NOT round. I said they were perfectly cone shaped. Like they're supposed to be, they have no scratches or dents.

Same bike as my description, 2009 ninja 250. Mileage: 1,064 miles

[tapdiggy]

Originally Posted by kkim

replace it.

I take it your gas mileage sucks, too?

This might be the biggest clue and the soundest advice. Even if it isn't the main problem, it can't hurt. Leaking fuel isn't a desirable condition.

[synapsekiller17]

Originally Posted by kkim

according to the chevron site, all their grades of gas come with techron.
http://www.chevron.com/products/prod.../gasoline.aspx

as long as he's using a top tier brand gasoline, he can be sure their are detergent/cleaning additives in the gas he's using, no matter what the grade.

nowhere can I find anything about the higher grades having more cleaning additives.

Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the Premium gas, I didn't that side topic would blow up. Truth is, I didn't buy the premium for any detergent/ additive benfits. It was almost like a chritening/ gift to my baby for finally running (so I thought). I already had some Gum-Out in the tank and aside from maybe anti-knock benefits, shelling out an extra buck or two seemed fitting for the time.

The point is, premium gas shouldn't have had ANY adverse effects. If anything, it could've helped a little.

Side note: I used to always put premium in my RM-Z250 because I loved her and the way she was jetted made her run a little lean and pop when I was coming down off high revs.

Can we address the real issue please?
1. My float needles look and work (spring) perfectly.
2. The jets had residue (from long storage) that I cleaned with a bath of cleaner and a brass brush and water jet till they shined.
3. The bike ran perfectly after I did the carb work.
4. After the fill up, she hasn't been the same. Won't run for more than a minute idling with choke. I turn the choke off and have to hold half throttle to keep her running for another minute. After that, she dumps fuel out the airbox drain and won't start.

[tapdiggy]

I suspect the vacuum hoses are connected incorrectly. I remember that if you disconnect the (bigger) main fuel line from the petcock and leave the smaller one connected, the petcock will spew fuel if you crank the engine. Check that the lines are all hooked up where they should be.

[kkim]

Can we address the real issue please?
1. My float needles look and work (spring) perfectly.
they can look perfect and still leak. is there a ring around the rubber part where the needles seats? if so, replace them.


2. The jets had residue (from long storage) that I cleaned with a bath of cleaner and a brass brush and water jet till they shined.

did you blow out the jets (mains and pilots after removing them from the carbs to make sure they are completely clean?

3. The bike ran perfectly after I did the carb work.

hmmm... good point.

4. After the fill up, she hasn't been the same. Won't run for more than a minute idling with choke. I turn the choke off and have to hold half throttle to keep her running for another minute. After that, she dumps fuel out the airbox drain and won't start.

bad tank of gas? have you drained the fuel tank and refilled with some fresh gas?

what airbox drain?

[bob138]

Originally Posted by kkim

what airbox drain?

Doesn't the airbox have a drain in the bottom that pours out a tube?

Bob

[kkim]

AFAIK, on the newgens, it has a clear plastic piece over a drain looking thing. I do believe it's to be able to allow you to see if there is something there, but yet not have anything spill out of the airbox onto the road, which is a nono.