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Old November 28th, 2022, 04:20 PM   #1
MikeCL
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Question Fixing up the 250

Forgive me if this is not the right section my little backstory was back when I was working very little lol I wanted a 250.. then kinda fell out of it and now I'm back into it (full time now lol) and I pass a blue one everyday.. I'm looking at getting one but I kinda wondering like what's a good deal and what's going to be a hassle? I don't mind working on it (I've rebuilt two Subaru motors) So this should be really simple, right?

Anyways I saw online a 2007 that's in rough shape for $300 motor has 523 miles on it it cranks but does not run.. turn signal broken.. looks like the fuel tank might be in a rough shape it might leak? The seat looks like a animal attacked it.

But it has no title.. Has anyone had to deal with that before?

Last futzed with by MikeCL; January 6th, 2023 at 05:58 PM. Reason: Thread title fits better
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Old November 28th, 2022, 04:47 PM   #2
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no title = boat anchor IMHO
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Old November 28th, 2022, 04:54 PM   #3
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I was given a motorcycle in terrible shape and without a title. In NC, you need to jump through a few hoops that aren't too bad, and I was able to get it on the road in about 3 days from when I started the process.

Lots of guys use the Vermont method of getting a title. Here's one of the many descriptions of how to do it: https://cartitles.com/how-to-use-the...vehicle-title/

The so-called title services that charge a couple hundred bucks just do the Vermont method and charge a big markup.

It might be wise to check the engine's compression to uncover possible major problems like a broken piston before you buy the motorcycle, unless you're OK with doing that kind of work or replacing the engine. Also get the VIN and be sure the bike isn't stolen. Your local DMV or police station should be able to at least verify that it wasn't stolen in your state. A phone call to Vermont would be a good idea too, if you want to use that title method.

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Old November 28th, 2022, 09:34 PM   #4
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I was given a motorcycle in terrible shape and without a title. In NC, you need to jump through a few hoops that aren't too bad, and I was able to get it on the road in about 3 days from when I started the process.

Lots of guys use the Vermont method of getting a title. Here's one of the many descriptions of how to do it: https://cartitles.com/how-to-use-the...vehicle-title/

The so-called title services that charge a couple hundred bucks just do the Vermont method and charge a big markup.

It might be wise to check the engine's compression to uncover possible major problems like a broken piston before you buy the motorcycle, unless you're OK with doing that kind of work or replacing the engine. Also get the VIN and be sure the bike isn't stolen. Your local DMV or police station should be able to at least verify that it wasn't stolen in your state. A phone call to Vermont would be a good idea too, if you want to use that title method.

Welcome to the board, Mike!
Thanks!

Wow this is the first Iíve ever heard of this Iím still debating on this but the price makes it kinda hard to pass up but how does a bike with that low of miles end up in that condition?
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Old November 29th, 2022, 05:59 AM   #5
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It happens all the time, and the reasons vary from the owner crashing and getting scared, to a minor problem like a broken wire that prevented spark, to a major mechanical problem inside the engine.

Since you mentioned some crash damage, it might be that the owner crashed, parked the bike, and it sat there for 15 years. In that case you can expect to repair the crash damage, and then deal with the entire fuel system that's now full of corrosion and/or the remnants of fuel that have turned into a gooey varnish-like mess. The carburetors on these 250s are unusually difficult to get clean, so you should probably plan on a hundred or two bucks to pay Ducatiman to restore them to new condition. The petcock can be replaced or disassembled for cleaning. Lacquer thinner or acetone can dissolve the varnish from the tank, but you indicated that it might need to be repaired too.

Of course if the crash explanation is true, then you have to wonder why there is no title. Could it be possible that the nearly new bike was stolen and crashed, and then hidden?

You have to decide if you have the time and skill to bring this bike back to running condition, or if it might be better to find a used running 250 with a title for a couple thousand. I got a rough but running 2005 for $1,150 a few years back.

Last futzed with by Triple Jim; November 29th, 2022 at 01:34 PM.
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Old November 29th, 2022, 06:31 AM   #6
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my apologies go to @MikeCL for being so short, direct with my opinion above, leaving out a warm welcome to ninjette community.
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Old November 29th, 2022, 08:46 AM   #7
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I am a firm believer that you get what you pay for. The first-gen is my favorite, and I have picked up a few in that price range (one w/o title). Nowdays I wouldn't consider getting one that wasn't really nice. The nice ones aren't that expensive anyway, and it's worth putting that money up to start with a better project. I see nice ones in the LA market going for $2,500 - which is a lot for an old 250 - but once you start trying to restore these, you pay that and then some without having the nice bike to begin with.
Another thing to consider is the new-gen and the 300 (the 400 is a new bike and I don't consider it a real ninjette anyway, plus it's still $$$). The new-gen 250 has slight improvements throughout and is newer, meaning you may have a chance finding a nice example still. The 300 is a big step forward in tech with the fuel injection, but that's up to you. I like carbs on my 250 and FI on my SV, so I can go either way there. The 300 is portly though.
Either way, good luck hunting and I hope you find something fun. You cannot beat the ninjette for fun on a twisty road, they're just the best!
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Old November 29th, 2022, 11:44 AM   #8
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my apologies go to @MikeCL for being so short, direct with my opinion above, leaving out a warm welcome to ninjette community.
Itís ok! Iíve been reading up on things to look for and general maintenance it seems the carb is somewhat prone to getting stuck?
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Old November 29th, 2022, 11:49 AM   #9
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I am a firm believer that you get what you pay for. The first-gen is my favorite, and I have picked up a few in that price range (one w/o title). Nowdays I wouldn't consider getting one that wasn't really nice. The nice ones aren't that expensive anyway, and it's worth putting that money up to start with a better project. I see nice ones in the LA market going for $2,500 - which is a lot for an old 250 - but once you start trying to restore these, you pay that and then some without having the nice bike to begin with.
Another thing to consider is the new-gen and the 300 (the 400 is a new bike and I don't consider it a real ninjette anyway, plus it's still $$$). The new-gen 250 has slight improvements throughout and is newer, meaning you may have a chance finding a nice example still. The 300 is a big step forward in tech with the fuel injection, but that's up to you. I like carbs on my 250 and FI on my SV, so I can go either way there. The 300 is portly though.
Either way, good luck hunting and I hope you find something fun. You cannot beat the ninjette for fun on a twisty road, they're just the best!
Lol Iím a bit partial but I still prefer the old style I donít mind the carbs thatís the whole point of feeling in touch with the bike.
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Old November 29th, 2022, 01:33 PM   #10
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Itís ok! Iíve been reading up on things to look for and general maintenance it seems the carb is somewhat prone to getting stuck?

Check out post #5 again for a little carb info.
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Old November 29th, 2022, 04:11 PM   #11
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Lol Iím a bit partial but I still prefer the old style I donít mind the carbs thatís the whole point of feeling in touch with the bike.
Agreed, carbs are good
And like TJ said, send em to Ducman. Totally worth letting him deep clean then all you gotta do is maintain as normal. I still get in there and clean, but he gets rid of stuff guitar strings and copper wire can't get to.
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Old December 1st, 2022, 11:22 AM   #12
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It happens all the time, and the reasons vary from the owner crashing and getting scared, to a minor problem like a broken wire that prevented spark, to a major mechanical problem inside the engine.

Since you mentioned some crash damage, it might be that the owner crashed, parked the bike, and it sat there for 15 years. In that case you can expect to repair the crash damage, and then deal with the entire fuel system that's now full of corrosion and/or the remnants of fuel that have turned into a gooey varnish-like mess. The carburetors on these 250s are unusually difficult to get clean, so you should probably plan on a hundred or two bucks to pay Ducatiman to restore them to new condition. The petcock can be replaced or disassembled for cleaning. Lacquer thinner or acetone can dissolve the varnish from the tank, but you indicated that it might need to be repaired too.

Of course if the crash explanation is true, then you have to wonder why there is no title. Could it be possible that the nearly new bike was stolen and crashed, and then hidden?

You have to decide if you have the time and skill to bring this bike back to running condition, or if it might be better to find a used running 250 with a title for a couple thousand. I got a rough but running 2005 for $1,150 a few years back.
That could be the case the fuel tank has a pretty dee gash on the right side god only knows how long itís been sitting I think they even dropped the price to $400 The price range of the bike is close to the new gen the 2008 Iíd still keep my eyes open.
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Old December 1st, 2022, 11:47 AM   #13
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That could be the case the fuel tank has a pretty dee gash on the right side god only knows how long itís been sitting I think they even dropped the price to $400 The price range of the bike is close to the new gen the 2008 Iíd still keep my eyes open.
In your first post you said the seller is asking $300.
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Old December 1st, 2022, 12:10 PM   #14
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In your first post you said the seller is asking $300.
Oops sorry yeah $300
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Old December 1st, 2022, 12:53 PM   #15
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Uploaded the photos like I said pretty rough shapeÖ
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Old December 1st, 2022, 01:19 PM   #16
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You should figure out how you would get a usable fuel tank. They're not easy to come by, and that one would take some work by someone who is experienced in repairing thin steel tanks. There's a dented but apparently usable one on eBay now for $200.

Reupholstering the seat won't be cheap, but there's one that looks OK on eBay for $55.

It'll need tires, just because of their age, so another couple hundred there.

As a wild guess, $150, give or take, for restoring the carbs.

In NC, a bonded title cost me $100 plus the usual title DMV fees. I don't know what what cost will be for you if you go the Vermont title route, but I can't imagine the total will be under $50.

So just from the obvious stuff, you're up to $950 so far, and assuming the frame isn't bent, you have to start assembling everything and diagnosing problems that have come up just from sitting around for many years.

I just trying to give you an idea of the real cost and labor involved. It may be worth it to you despite all this.
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Old December 2nd, 2022, 04:11 AM   #17
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You should figure out how you would get a usable fuel tank. They're not easy to come by, and that one would take some work by someone who is experienced in repairing thin steel tanks. There's a dented but apparently usable one on eBay now for $200.

Reupholstering the seat won't be cheap, but there's one that looks OK on eBay for $55.

It'll need tires, just because of their age, so another couple hundred there.

As a wild guess, $150, give or take, for restoring the carbs.

In NC, a bonded title cost me $100 plus the usual title DMV fees. I don't know what what cost will be for you if you go the Vermont title route, but I can't imagine the total will be under $50.

So just from the obvious stuff, you're up to $950 so far, and assuming the frame isn't bent, you have to start assembling everything and diagnosing problems that have come up just from sitting around for many years.

I just trying to give you an idea of the real cost and labor involved. It may be worth it to you despite all this.
Yeah I definitely understand what you mean given I would be waiting awhile it would be in no rush I would assume the worst

*edit I ended up buying that tank not too sure about maybe a leak by the front mount means.

Wow.. I ordered the tank today and it should arrive tomorrow lol

Last futzed with by MikeCL; December 2nd, 2022 at 04:21 PM.
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Old December 2nd, 2022, 11:35 AM   #18
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From my understanding the Ninja 750 sear fits as well? Ok well it looks like the mount points are a little different.

Looks like I’m going to change the fairing the color I’m looking for it was pretty hard to find the LH side panel cover so I started with that. The fuel tank comes in today I have a tiny bit of fuel that might allow me to check for any leaks.

Last futzed with by MikeCL; December 3rd, 2022 at 08:10 AM.
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Old December 3rd, 2022, 06:07 PM   #19
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This tank is definitely going to need good cleaning with evap-rust from
What I could get out by tilting the tank I saw some pretty large flakes.

Would be good to have a coating as well.
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Old December 3rd, 2022, 08:42 PM   #20
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That tank doesn't need to be coated. It just needs some pea gravel and lacquer thinner shaken around in it. Acetone works too. A pleated paper inline filter will trap any remnants that try to get through.
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Old December 4th, 2022, 03:58 AM   #21
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That tank doesn't need to be coated. It just needs some pea gravel and lacquer thinner shaken around in it. Acetone works too. A pleated paper inline filter will trap any remnants that try to get through.
That’s the tank I got on eBay the $200 one it came next day it was the only one at the time in decent shape. The petcock will get changed looks like someone had a leak they tried to seal they used grey RTV on it and it’s a bit messy.

I do have flakes of rust coming out the largest I saw was 1/2” the acetone or lacquer thinner would it get rid of the rust? I only ask because I won’t be putting fuel in the tank right away.
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Old December 4th, 2022, 05:52 AM   #22
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It's hard to tell from the photos, but the big flakes looked like varnish to me. If they're rust, they that's a different matter, but I've cleaned out tanks from what I thought was a lot of rust, and it was really a hardened layer of varnish that lacquer thinner slowly dissolved.

If you end up needing to line the tank, use Caswell's phenol novolac epoxy. It's the material that is used to line the big oil company storage tanks, and is resistant to all the junk in current gasoline.
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Old December 5th, 2022, 05:39 PM   #23
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I will keep that in mind I not sure when I will have time with the tank for it to soak. I had a few other things come in today I didnít know I got the wrong front sprocket it was for the Ď08 model. So now I have to return that.
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Old December 7th, 2022, 12:39 PM   #24
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Man so I tried to take the petcock out and looks like someone stripped the screw looks to be about a 10 mm head? I did vinegar about 2.4gal and put in about 40 screws.. man what a pita to get out lol.. I think I have about 6 left (I kept count)

Iím still going to do rust 911 but I wanted to kind of see how bad it was which was not as bad as it seemed. The outside of the tank not within view has a large amount of paint taken away almost looks chemical.. Iíd have to prep that area
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Old December 7th, 2022, 01:00 PM   #25
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Is the screw really stripped, or is it just the hex head that's stripped? If it's just the head, Vise Grips should be able to remove it.
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Old December 7th, 2022, 01:56 PM   #26
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Is the screw really stripped, or is it just the hex head that's stripped? If it's just the head, Vise Grips should be able to remove it.
The phillips head is messed up but then again like I said someone got messy with the grey RTV on the petcock
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Old December 7th, 2022, 02:05 PM   #27
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Oh, a Phillips. Still, a Vise-Grip should be able to turn it. Or use a 1" cutoff wheel in a Dremel tool to make a slot in the head.
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Old December 8th, 2022, 11:06 AM   #28
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Oh, a Phillips. Still, a Vise-Grip should be able to turn it. Or use a 1" cutoff wheel in a Dremel tool to make a slot in the head.
Yeah I tried to use these Milwaukee channel locks but the neck of the petcock is in the way.. not really in a rush for it since I still have to do some more cleaning.

Also I’ve seen printed service manuals on eBay does it have decent info in them?
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Old December 9th, 2022, 03:32 PM   #29
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Finally got it off pretty nasty looking btw those big flakes you might be right about some thinner of some kind it still stinks pretty strong the last run cleaning the tank will be rust 911 it seems like itís only sold on Amazon.

At least 3 bolts have to be replaced for the tank one for the bracket and two for the petcock.

And 106 link 520 chain The wrong JT front sprocket came in it was my fault should of saw it was for the Ď08 model so I sent it back.
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Old December 9th, 2022, 05:02 PM   #30
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Your petcock missing both mesh filters.

Note I've still got 2 refurbed petcocks for sale.

search "FS refurbed pregen TAIYO GIKEN OEM PETCOCKS"
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Old December 9th, 2022, 05:14 PM   #31
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It took me a minute to find that post. To save others the trouble:

Refurbished petcocks by Ducatiman:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=374240
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Old December 9th, 2022, 11:15 PM   #32
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Thanks! Probably will send it to Ducatiman after I get my storage space hopefully a space to store the bike and work on it.
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Old December 12th, 2022, 12:10 PM   #33
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Sorry guys I have a lot of questions and I can't really find any answers anyplace else.. but the flush mount turn signals the signals I have been seeing are 3 wire and my understanding is the stock are 2 wire? Plus the fixture does not really mount direct to the bike but a mounting plate has to be made for it?
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Old December 15th, 2022, 07:27 AM   #34
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Well I havenít spent that much on eBay in like 10 years.
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Old December 15th, 2022, 11:05 AM   #35
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Man, that is gonna be a clean looking pregen when you're all done! Bit of $$ but I'm sure you'll love it when it's dialed.

As far as the 2 and 3 wire turn signals: either works. 3-wire gives you a running light is the only difference.
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Old December 15th, 2022, 12:10 PM   #36
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Man, that is gonna be a clean looking pregen when you're all done! Bit of $$ but I'm sure you'll love it when it's dialed.

As far as the 2 and 3 wire turn signals: either works. 3-wire gives you a running light is the only difference.
Yeah it was a bit of money lol someone brought the lower chin fairing that matches so It was kinda rare to get all the stuff I needed in a not so hard to find way.

I like this color combo

As for the lights I’ve heard of some tapping into the lights for the gauges not too sure about that.
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Old December 15th, 2022, 12:36 PM   #37
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If you swap to LED turn signals, you will need the digital turn signal relay and to wire in some diodes to make them flash properly (one at a time). I did this recently in this thread.

That is a really nice color combo; much better than the original blue that bike came with. I'm sure you will find the right chin fairing, but Airtech Streamlining still makes all the fiberglass reproductions for these bikes.
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Old December 15th, 2022, 01:21 PM   #38
MikeCL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedrewski86 View Post
If you swap to LED turn signals, you will need the digital turn signal relay and to wire in some diodes to make them flash properly (one at a time). I did this recently in this thread.

That is a really nice color combo; much better than the original blue that bike came with. I'm sure you will find the right chin fairing, but Airtech Streamlining still makes all the fiberglass reproductions for these bikes.
Sweet thanks I was going to ask about the LED turn signals but that's better they have a turn signal relay for it do you have a link of where you got them from?
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Old December 15th, 2022, 02:40 PM   #39
thedrewski86
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Relay
4709 Diode kit
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Old December 16th, 2022, 12:59 PM   #40
MikeCL
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Finally the guy got back to me said tomorrow someone might come by to look at the bike but heís not sure.. if itís still available then Sunday it is. However I have a feeling Iím going get told I can swing by Saturday if free.

I have a bore scope cam I just need to find it lol.. I ordered the led relay and kit however Iím sure that kit is pretty easy to make I have a feeling itís a zener diode .
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