05 Ninja 250 won't start on its own - help!

[AmyF]

I was really hoping to find someone in the Northeast Ohio area that's familiar with the Ninja 250's. I bought mine last week It rides great - recently put brand new battery in when it stalled and wouldn't start on its own without being jumped. It rode fine for two days that way, until today during a ride I slowed down for a light and it just stalled out and wouldn't start again. It sounds like it wants to start the first couple times, then it makes that "rapid fire" ticking noise instead. When I was stuck where it died today, someone stopped and jumped it with his truck - it started immediately and ran strong. I rode the 8 miles home, turned it off. I tried to start it again - no luck. I checked the battery with a battery meter thinking maybe it could be the alternator/stator but the battery was showing full charge.

I'm not mechanically inclined and was hoping I could find some information out before bringing it into the shop to have a CLUE what might be wrong.

Now, I could see where the spark plugs are - and they actually felt "Loose" but I can't get to the plugs enough to remove them because I don't have the right tools. My thoughts are those boots and plugs are supposed to be very tight.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by AmyF

........recently put brand new battery in when it stalled and wouldn't start on its own without being jumped. It rode fine for two days that way, until today during a ride I slowed down for a light and it just stalled out and wouldn't start again. It sounds like it wants to start the first couple times, then it makes that "rapid fire" ticking noise instead. When I was stuck where it died today, someone stopped and jumped it with his truck - it started immediately and ran strong. I rode the 8 miles home, turned it off. I tried to start it again - no luck. I checked the battery with a battery meter thinking maybe it could be the alternator/stator but the battery was showing full charge..........

Welcome to Ninjette.org, Amy !!!

It seems that your engine is using the electricity stored in the battery but without replenishing it.

Something may be wrong with the charging system and just a battery meter cannot diagnose that problem.

A shop where a good electrician works could help you; your spark plugs have nothing to do with this.

[csmith12]

Welcome Amy!

Bummer luck ya got going on there. Check the rectifier, stator and starter. To test the starter (assuming you still have a good battery), give it a few light taps with a small hammer. Sometimes starters that are going out need a "bump". If that works, you found your problem. If not, then the diag continues....

Possible issues;
Loose battery connections
Fouled plugs (unlikely)
Bad battery (batteries can read a full charge and fail under load)
Weak coil (unlikely)
Bad rectifier
Bad stator
Bum starter

And for sure! Get those spark plugs torqued to spec. Loose is NOT GOOD, but then again, too tight can strip the threads and then you got much, much, much bigger problems. So don't over tighten them.

There are a couple of ninjette members in NE Ohio, maybe one can help you out. If not, I venture up that way for races from time to time. If you could get the bike to Nelson Ledges, there are about 100 cats that can fix ya right up in the paddock, some with enough tools to rebuild then engine. lol

[csmith12]

With the bike running, what does the voltage measure at the battery? You should start there, because it's easy, it should measure higher than 12v. I forgot the exact measure, but it should be more than 12.

Let us know!

[AmyF]

I'm hoping I can find someone nearby that can look it over and help me figure it out. I don't know where the stator or other things are on it and i don't want to hit or tap it - for fear I'd break something lol...

[csmith12]

@choneofakind - go fix her up! I am guessing stator, they can be ohm tested with your meter.

[choneofakind]

Is the battery good under load? Put a multimeter on the battery terminals, keep them there. While hitting the starter to put some load on the battery (easier with a helping set of hands), check the multimeter. If the battery sinks to ~10V while under load, it's in need of replacing.

Even with a battery that's dead enough to not show 10V while cranking and is unable to start the bike, the bike will still run if you can jump start it from another battery. Been there done that. Just don't let it stall, and hope your carbs are clean enough that it will idle without stalling.

Since we're talking about jumping the battery, remember to never jump the motorcycle from a running car. Just the car battery (non-running car) is fine. However, the alternator on an idling car puts out too much voltage and can fry the hardware in charge of regulating and smoothing the voltage going into the ninja's battery. No bueno.

[AmyF]

I just bought the motorcycle battery two days ago - brand new battery. I can go back out there now and see if it dips when I try to start the bike. Frustrated.

[csmith12]

Now, that you're giving your new battery a tough way to go, do yourself a favor... Go to your local wal-mart and get a Battery Tender Jr. and hook it up. Those little guys will save your battery and extend the life of the battery a few seasons or more, you will need it for the winter anyway.

Grand total: $25 bones.

[AmyF]

I have a battery tender I just didn't think about trying to hook it up when it read full charge on the meter, and given the current weather. During the cold months I'll definitely bring the battery in from the garage and keep it monitored closely with the tender.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by csmith12

@choneofakind - go fix her up! I am guessing stator, they can be ohm tested with your meter.

Stator huh.

thinking out loud: the buzzing means the battery doesn't have enough oomph to engage the start relay and the starter motor. That says to me either a) bum battery or b) bum charging system. She just got the battery and is going to load test it for us, that should let us know about the battery.
The charging system is basically the stator, the Reg/Rec, and some diodes in the wiring harness, right? I've never had to replace a stator or R/R, thankfully. My experience ends at the battery.

@CZroe you've had some experience with bum electrical systems, right? Or am I thinking of someone else?

EDIT: if you've got a battery tender, let it do it's thing. Let the battery charge and see if that helps with the load test. It's good to have a solid baseline.

[csmith12]

Yea, the stator is the main charging component of the bike. The rectifier smooths out the power from the stator, not too much (high side), not too little (low side). Changing the stator is a .5 hour job with the proper tools. Basically, its in the same place in the engine as the clutch, cept on the other side.

If a new & charged battery keeps going dead (tick, tick, tick sounds when trying to start), something is not hooked up or the stator/rectifier is blown. Sadly, it's more of the more expensive parts on the lil bike. If you can hook up and configure an aftermarket EFI on your pregen Chone, you can change a stator without a second though. lol

[choneofakind]

Yeah, I thought that's where it was. So it would involve removing the left cover of the case, right? I don't see why that would be too hard. I've got the tools for it if it's something that needs done.

Relevant thread. Post #3 is a good tidbit of info for testing the charging system. It requires getting the bike running though. This can be done with a jump from any automotive (or even a lawn mower, ask me how I know ) 12V battery.

[AmyF]

Ok I went out to the garage with my battery voltage meter and with my portable charger/jumper. When I had the battery meter on and tried to start the bike (of course it wouldn't start it just tried), the meter dipped appx 7 Amps.

When I took my small portable jumper charger and attached it to the battery and attempted to start the bike it started right up no problem. I didn't take it for a ride, just wanted to see if it would start up.

[csmith12]

Cool! What was the voltage with the bike running? You still need a charger to get the battery up to 12v so it will start without a bump. Go get that Battery Tender.

[AmyF]

I'll go back out with my tender and hook it up on the battery here. But I just bought the battery and it showed fully powered on the meter. Should I still try to hook it up to that tender / maintainer?

[csmith12]

Sure, a fully charged battery is a happy battery.

[choneofakind]

This is a valid tidbit of info as well on testing it.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_to_...attery_is_dead

[AmyF]

I have a 1.5 amp battery charger maintainer. It's hooked up now and showing "charging" mode. It changes to "charged" when fully charged up so will see how long.

[AmyF]

I took two really tiny videos that show the sound it made when I tried to start it on its own. Not sure those can be attached on this site but I'll try once they uploade from my phone to my email.

[AmyF]

The videos I took with my phone and were only 4-5 seconds long. Apparently they're too large to load onto this message board so not sure how to relay those unless I can send them to someone else's phone

I'm going out now to check on the charging status - when it's fully charged what should I do next, try to start it on its own again and perhaps ride it around for a bit?

[csmith12]

Your next step is to get an "engine running" meter reading at the battery. If, it's less that 12v, it's gunna run your battery down as you ride it around and leave you stranded on the side of the road.

[AmyF]

Dumb question, but I'm pretty sure it won't start on its own, so I would have to jump it with my portable jumper - once it is running that way, then I check with the battery meter?

[Alex]

Originally Posted by AmyF

The videos I took with my phone and were only 4-5 seconds long. Apparently they're too large to load onto this message board so not sure how to relay those unless I can send them to someone else's phone

What format are they, what 3 letter extension does the file end with, and how large are they? Odds are we can get them loaded here.

But - it's typically easier to load them to a site made for videos (like youtube or vimeo), then just embedded them here with a link.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by AmyF

Dumb question, but I'm pretty sure it won't start on its own, so I would have to jump it with my portable jumper - once it is running that way, then I check with the battery meter?

Yes mam, jump it or wait until the battery is fully charged. If it starts when it's fully changed (without help) then that is more evidence that the problem is with the starter or charging system.

[AmyF]

They are mp4 files I believe.

Here's the link from YouTube I just uploaded.
Watch "05 Ninja 250 2nd video" on YouTube
05 Ninja 250 2nd video: http://youtu.be/l4nQBf9up3M

Link to original page on YouTube.

[AmyF]

Interesting - it is still in the charging mode out there. I thought it would be charged up by now being it is a new battery. At any rate, once it's fully charged and if it starts on its own, should I ride it around a bit or just test with the battery meter and report the results on here first?

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by AmyF

Interesting - it is still in the charging mode out there. I thought it would be charged up by now being it is a new battery.

Sounds about right to me.

You can give it time to warm up sure, but you don't have to ride it around. In fact, it's best if you don't unless it's within 250' from your house or less than 10mins. Then take the measure.

[AmyF]

I'm not sure what everyone else's bike RPM's at on average, but on a typical ride I seem to stay right around 6000 RPM's. I haven't ridden the bike over 50 mph yet.

[csmith12]

RPMS is a function of the engine design and gearing (sprockets). No worries, that is not part of your current issues. Ride it as you're comfortable, the rest can work itself out later.

[AmyF]

Here's my other sound video file from trying to start the bike. It's still charging up on the maintainer but will report once it's charged and I do those tests

[AmyF]

Ok - I didn't wait for it to fully charge. I wanted to see what might happen. I unattached the maintainer and held my breath - the bike started on its own very strongly, just as if it had been jumped. I rode it around for about 10 minutes and brought it back. I shut it off and waited a moment, turned it back on and it started right up. Shut off and turned on again - started up again on its own. I had the battery meter on there when trying to start it those two times - it barely dipped at all in the Amps.

[AmyF]

I put it back on the maintainer for now since it said it wasn't fully charged yet.

Let me know what you guys think. Oh - when I rode it around town for that short time just a minute ago I brought the portable jumper

[AmyF]

Having issues posting on my phone so I'm sorry if this is duplicated


The new battery is an Auto craft part 7L-BS. The idle dial by the engine is set all the way clockwise

[choneofakind]

Sooooo... It was just a dead battery? Let it sit an hour and go try to start it again.

If it seems like it's starting alright, try riding it around town and maybe some 30+ min rides or so. Stay pretty close to home until you can trust it. The game now is seeing if the battery was just dead or if the charging system was being problematic.

[AmyF]

Where should the idle dial be set. I have mine at full clockwise.

[AmyF]

The battery is new but I got it a few days ago. The issues I had today. The maintainer seemed to really get the bike starting well on its own. It's still on the maintainer so I'll see how it is in a little bit when I try it out on a ride again.

[Klondike1020]

Originally Posted by AmyF

I just bought the motorcycle battery two days ago - brand new battery. I can go back out there now and see if it dips when I try to start the bike. Frustrated.

Did you charge the New battery before using it? You must fully charge a brand new battery before installing it!

You have to be careful about charging new batteries properly, it can effect battery life.

Also if the bike is running and you put the meter on it at idle the charging system should make the voltage at the batter greater than 12V so 14V is what I think is Ideal. If the voltage while the bike is running is 12v or lower then it is running off the batter and not charging at all.

You want to check the charging voltage while the bike is running! The voltage will tell you weather or not your bike is charging the battery.

Then you methodically check each electrical component until you find the guilty party.

[AmyF]

I didn't charge the new battery at all. The box claims it's Ready to go - sounds like that's not the case huh?

I don't like this tester unit but Eric says it works. This is what I use to test the battery. With the DCV set at 10when I test the battery and it shoots all the way to the right. When the DCV is set at 30 the needle goes to appx 14 amps (while bike is running).

The maintainer still says charging and I know it's charging because the bike starts right up when I try it. I'm going to take it out for a spin in a little while.

[Klondike1020]

Originally Posted by AmyF

I didn't charge the new battery at all. The box claims it's Ready to go - sounds like that's not the case huh?

I don't like this tester unit but Eric says it works. This is what I use to test the battery. With the DCV set at 10when I test the battery and it shoots all the way to the right. When the DCV is set at 30 the needle goes to appx 14 amps (while bike is running).

The maintainer still says charging and I know it's charging because the bike starts right up when I try it. I'm going to take it out for a spin in a little while.

Did you disconnect the battery tender while it was running and you used the Meter?

OFten - ready to use batteries are lest than full charge from sitting.

But if you are reading 14V while it runs - with no charger attached to it, Then your charging system on your bike should be fine!

Let use know how it handles being ridden and parked and ridden again.