250R NA Build - Ultimate

[tubarney]

Originally Posted by mgentz

Pic? Are you talking about the idle adjustment screw that contacts the drum or an actual slide adjustment at this point? If the latter, that seems odd but not unlikely.

Hope the dynos go well. And are you all healed up yet?

The screw and nut is located on the throttle linkage under the top cover (where needle jet is). Must of confused the hell out of you with 'near'. I don't think its meant to adjust slide height but if you make the screw too tight it raises the slide.

My leg is still f***ed, calf muscle don't work atm. I think I might be able to ride though, going to try and get it down the dyno on friday. Should be interesting.

[mgentz]

@tubarney any news?

I finally got my parts in, but I am going to redo some mechanical checks before putting it back together.
@Racer x have you done any work with slotted sprockets and cam timing? I am greatly considering moving my numbers but since I do not have unlimited dyno time I was hoping to get a good beginning number.

[Racer x]

Adjusting can timing is something I have not done. I have the sprockets and tried moving the cams around a little. All I got was detonation or major power loss. So I took them off. The problem is my experience is with single cam engines. Having seperate intake and exhaust cams means you can not only change the over all timing but change the camshaft centerline.

I spoke with Brandon about this. He could tell from my videos I need to adjust this.
I have all the parts but need to fabricate two things. First I need to mount a degree wheel to the crankshaft. I can weld a fixture to the bolt on the left side of the crank to mount the degree wheel.
Second is a dial indicator. I need to drill a small hole in the cam covers. A pin to the dial indicator will go through the hole and measure the cam or valve spring top. Honestly I don't know. Also I don't hava a clue where to set the cams.

Once I get all the components together I will start a thread. Brandon has generously agreed to help me learn this black art.

[tubarney]

Valve guide seals getting replaced. Dyno should be on Monday

[mgentz]

Let me know what you come up with.

Drilling the cam caps should not be a big deal, but mounting the degree wheel will be fun. from there you can check piston to valve clearance and cam timing numbers. Knowing/finding the best number is the hard part. I was hoping to work with brandon on this as well.

[tubarney]

Back together and working.

Just got to sort out the lean condition, popping out of exhaust. I'll try and get it on a trailer to the dyno. Really don't want to melt a ring or some bs while riding it down there.

[mgentz]

I currently have mine at 65 pilots, Y50 needles, 120 mains and 230 main airs. I also bought one up/down on the mains right away.

What are you at?

[mgentz]

@tubarney how is the build coming along? I have made no progress so far with the holidays. ..

[tubarney]

Not sure which jets are in there atm. Will find out once its done.

Now kawasaki have changed the valve cover gasket ( or Nev has given me the wrong one) because spark plug gaskets are not sealing. I mean they arent even close. Once I figure out whats wrong ill get it tuned and post some results.

[tubarney]

65 pilot, 118 main, YY5 Jet needle (7 clip) on 2nd clip from bottom

Its starts and runs ok, Good enough to get to dyno (10 mins away).

Rolls Royce's Hylomar couldn't seal the spark plug gaskets but Threebond 1211 did. Just going to be a massive pain in the ass removing the valve cover.

As soon as Dyno re-opens I'll take it down and see what this thing can do.

[mgentz]

Good luck. Cant wait to hear the results.

[mgentz]

@tubarney any news?

[mgentz]

So...I am re-evaluating my motor. Couple questions in my mind:

1) do I change up to JE 13.5:1 pistons, still 265mm (+2) bore?
2) with that change do I run stock cams as I do not believe that I will have the p/v clearance?

decisions...decisions....I am contemplating this due to my last dyno run, @cuong-nutz problems with the wiseco pistons and recommendations from Brandon.

Thoughts?

[Racer x]

I have run higher than that. Go for it. This aint the really nice 250 ninja build . Its the ultimate.

[mgentz]

LOL

I suppose you're right. I wonder about the clearances at that point so I think that I will buy the stock cams and throw those in first. I run pump 93 all the time anyways so the comp will make no $$$ difference to me.

[Racer x]

I had to shim my spark plug up some. But other than that I had no problem with 13to1 JE with.010th off the top of the block. I ran 110 octane fuel with that and went 112 mph.

[subxero]

A few pages back there was this talk about using exhaust valves for the intake? or other way around to get some performance gains or something? What ever happened with that? Can someone give some info on if it is worth it? problematic? ect...

[quarterliter]

Without paging thru all the text, I thought I remembered it being about using an exhaust cam for the intake, not the exhaust valve?

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by subxero

A few pages back there was this talk about using exhaust valves for the intake? or other way around to get some performance gains or something? What ever happened with that? Can someone give some info on if it is worth it? problematic? ect...

I think it was running two intake cams

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by EMSRacer07

I think it was running two intake cams

Yes, run two intake cams.

Go big! I think the troubles I'm having might be my fault or just my bad luck. Hindsight, I would have probably just went with JE.

[mgentz]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I had to shim my spark plug up some. But other than that I had no problem with 13to1 JE with.010th off the top of the block. I ran 110 octane fuel with that and went 112 mph.

If at 13:1 you had to shim the plug it makes me wonder about 13.5:1.

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by mgentz

If at 13:1 you had to shim the plug it makes me wonder about 13.5:1.

Does anyone have a their squish measurements?

What if you threw a EX300 crank in....

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by mgentz

If at 13:1 you had to shim the plug it makes me wonder about 13.5:1.

At what point (ratio) do you have problems with high RPM flame travel?

[mgentz]

That varies based on many things.
@Racer x what plug were you running?

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

What if you threw a EX300 crank in....

What if you just threw an entire EX300 motor and fuel system in instead!

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

What if you just threw an entire EX300 motor and fuel system in instead!

Just about there Chone

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

What if you just threw an entire EX300 motor and fuel system in instead!

But where is the fun in that?

[Racer x]

I use NGK CR10E. I used a .020 th copper washer. Not a big deal.

Yes 2 intake cams gives 1mm more lift on the exhaust. But according to Brandon the timing is off. I am working on putting together the parts to adjust can timing.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

But where is the fun in that?

The fun comes with the factory EFI and moar displacement to start with.

[Racer x]

How much adjustability can you get from the factory EFI system?

[choneofakind]

No idea. Never used it. Biggest benefit to factory fuel injection over aftermarket in my eyes is replacement parts.

I mean there's people who use power commanders to adjust for exhaust/intake/engine mods on loads of bikes. At some point, the limits are your injectors (minimum pulse length and flow rate). I don't know specifics on the 300's FI system though.

[Racer x]

I need to be able to adjust ignition timing and fuel mixture. If the factory stuff can't than it goes in a box with the turn signals.

[quarterliter]

Originally Posted by jkv45

At what point (ratio) do you have problems with high RPM flame travel?

I think it was in the neighborhood of 16:1, depending on combustion chamber design.

[mgentz]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I use NGK CR10E. I used a .020 th copper washer. Not a big deal.

Yes 2 intake cams gives 1mm more lift on the exhaust. But according to Brandon the timing is off. I am working on putting together the parts to adjust can timing.

I had a lengthy discussion with a tech at je. He confirmed that the piston reliefs are the same for the 12.5:1 & 13.5:1 pistons. The difference is in the dome height. The 13.5:1 piston is .100 taller. This means that I should be ok with piston to valve clearance. However the plug still haunts me...but I think that if a run a Cr8e plug as the stock motor intended I would be ok.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I need to be able to adjust ignition timing and fuel mixture. If the factory stuff can't than it goes in a box with the turn signals.

Power commander 5.

[mgentz]

13.5:1 pistons on their way. I will need to replace all the bearings so I am upgrading. This is due to the piston dome clearance issue just like @cuong-nutz had.

[cuong-nutz]

@Racer x, do you have the APE adjustable cam gears? http://ape-store.com/shopsite/page34.html

[Racer x]

Yes. And I have a dial indicator and a deg wheel. I have a way of attaching the degree wheel to the crank using the flywheel puller. But I have to work that out.
There will be a need to drill a hole in the cam cap to allow the dial indicator to measure the cam movement. Once I get this stuff all together. I will ask Brandon to help me learn about
split cam timing. With out all this they are useless.

[cuong-nutz]

Totally understand. I was thinking of scribing/etching degree marks on the stock cam gears to learn when the valves are lifting and closing. As for the degree wheel on the crank, I thought about using a magnet to hold the wheel to crank bolt but your flywheel puller idea sounds better.

http://www.factorypro.com/tech/tech_...ning_proc.html
http://www.iskycams.com/degreeing.php

[Racer x]

The deg wheel must be fixed very securely. And I still need to turn the engine over. So a bolt is not good.

The difference between good and bad is so slight. Just forget about fudging it. This is where then power is going to come from. We need to retune this engine to make power above 13000 to get 40 + HP.