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Old May 7th, 2017, 05:06 PM   #1
Dave Wolfe
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Race Tires 2017

Whatcha usin? Whats winning? Im gonna have to change out my S20 evo's after another weekend or two.
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Old May 8th, 2017, 06:31 AM   #2
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http://viets-performance.com/Tires/B...125cc-Slicks_3
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Old May 8th, 2017, 08:58 AM   #3
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Old May 8th, 2017, 03:09 PM   #4
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Old May 8th, 2017, 04:40 PM   #5
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Tires

I've been using the Dunlop Alphas, although I sometimes run the Michelin front with an Alpha on the back. The main advantage of the Alpha is the price, you can currently get a full set for $250

That being said I think I'm going to try a set of the new Michelin Power RS next time, especially now that they are making 110 Fronts and 150 Rears.
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Old May 8th, 2017, 05:12 PM   #6
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im running the bridgstones rs10. really like them. spendy 170 a tire.
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Old June 6th, 2017, 07:26 PM   #7
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has anyone run the 125cc slicks? these?
http://stickboyracing.com/index.php/bridgestone/


90 front and 120 rear.
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Old June 7th, 2017, 01:14 AM   #8
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has anyone run the 125cc slicks? these?
http://stickboyracing.com/index.php/bridgestone/


90 front and 120 rear.
didn't click my link did ya.
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Old June 7th, 2017, 01:20 AM   #9
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im running the bridgstones rs10. really like them. spendy 170 a tire.
if you are going to run b-stones go with the 125cc combo slicks, "the rs10s are garbage." quoted from my tire guy.

but if it duals as street, stick with street tires, possibly go with the Pirelli Diablo Rosso 2 140 rear and 110 front.
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Old June 7th, 2017, 06:12 AM   #10
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if you are going to run b-stones go with the 125cc combo slicks, "the rs10s are garbage." quoted from my tire guy.

but if it duals as street, stick with street tires, possibly go with the Pirelli Diablo Rosso 2 140 rear and 110 front.
on the rs10 watch your pressure front 23-25 rear 25-27 HOT right off the warmers.
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Old June 7th, 2017, 12:33 PM   #11
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didn't click my link did ya.
the link said a 120 for FRONT and REAR? is that right???

my bike is track only

http://viets-performance.com/Tires/B...00-Slick-Set_2
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Old June 7th, 2017, 04:05 PM   #12
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if you are going to run b-stones go with the 125cc combo slicks
That's great if you have a pregen with a 3.5" rear rim, but not working well for 300's.

I used Alpha 13's. But I did notice they were a better hot weather tire than a cool morning tire, regardless of what I set the pressure to. If I were doing early season racing I think I would use Supercorsa SC's. 115/70 and 150/60. But June/July up here in Wisconsin, A13's are decent up until september. (IMHO)

SoCal guys could probably use A13's year round.
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Old June 7th, 2017, 04:07 PM   #13
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That's great if you have a pregen with a 3.5" rear rim, but not working well for 300's.

I used Alpha 13's. But I did notice they were a better hot weather tire than a cool morning tire, regardless of what I set the pressure to. If I were doing early season racing I think I would use Supercorsa SC's. 115/70 and 150/60. But June/July up here in Wisconsin, A13's are decent up until september. (IMHO)

SoCal guys could probably use A13's year round.
I run the A13's and I am in Texas. Going to be 90 deg Saturday!
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Old June 7th, 2017, 05:12 PM   #14
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I really like the Alpha-13 tyres.
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Old June 7th, 2017, 06:19 PM   #15
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That's great if you have a pregen with a 3.5" rear rim, but not working well for 300's.

I used Alpha 13's. But I did notice they were a better hot weather tire than a cool morning tire, regardless of what I set the pressure to. If I were doing early season racing I think I would use Supercorsa SC's. 115/70 and 150/60. But June/July up here in Wisconsin, A13's are decent up until september. (IMHO)

SoCal guys could probably use A13's year round.
No-one likes dunlop, Pirelli or Bridgestone are the tires we run.
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Old June 7th, 2017, 06:20 PM   #16
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the link said a 120 for FRONT and REAR? is that right???

my bike is track only

http://viets-performance.com/Tires/B...00-Slick-Set_2
it is suppose to be a 90/120 combo.
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Old June 8th, 2017, 08:49 AM   #17
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I think i'm pretty set on getting a set of Pirelli SC's. For the 250, are folks using the 140 or 150 in back? How are the Pirelli's in the wet?
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Old June 8th, 2017, 09:16 AM   #18
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Running 140 sc2 medium compound on the back feels great, as for wet cant say haven't ran in a rain day yet with them.
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Old June 8th, 2017, 09:22 AM   #19
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I think i'm pretty set on getting a set of Pirelli SC's. For the 250, are folks using the 140 or 150 in back? How are the Pirelli's in the wet?
I strongly prefer the dunlop alpha 13s over the pirellis in the wet or mixed conditions. That said I prefer true rain tires in any situation with rain coming down.

Conditions: Brand, Front/Rear
Dry hot: Pirelli, Sc1/Sc1
Dry hot: Pirelli/Dunlop Sc1/A13 (trackday setup)
Dry medium: Pirelli, Sc1/Sc2
Dry colder: Pirelli, Sc1(2 if below 50 degrees)/Diablo Rosso II (Haven't tried 3)
Wet (no dry line at all) Hot/medium/cold: Dunlop rain tires (don't know the exact model tire, just their current rain tire)
Mixed hot/medium/cold: Dunlop, A13

Disclaimer, I have yet to try the Bridgestone S20/S21 or R(S)10 tires. I have also not tried the new michelin tires. My next tire test is going to be the metzelers during track days to see how they feel as a compromise between the dunlop's life and the pirelli's dry grip. I will report with my findings in a few months
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Old June 8th, 2017, 11:46 PM   #20
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Quote:
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I think i'm pretty set on getting a set of Pirelli SC's. For the 250, are folks using the 140 or 150 in back? How are the Pirelli's in the wet?
140 is the correct size for the stock rear width and works very well. I used the Persmellys all of last year and I was very happy with the grip and tire life.
Putting a 150 on the back is a waste because you can't use all of the tire due to the pinched profile. Plus you are adding weight in one of the worst places possible.

I've got two sets of Alpha 13 takeoffs that I bought from Bruce for my endurance bike. Couldn't pass up the price. The only time I had on them was a few runs up and down the parking lot and I thought something was wrong when I hit the brakes and the front tire slid on the pavement sealer. The Pirellis didn't do that. Not a big deal though, It's not like I'm racing on sealer covered racetracks and it has to do with the harder compound center tread section on the A13s. My teammates raced on them a couple of weekends ago and they were ok with them when the track was warm. I'll evaluate them myself in a couple of weeks at the next race and I'll decide if we will continue with the Dunflops or go back to the Pirellis.
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Old June 9th, 2017, 03:54 PM   #21
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I strongly prefer the dunlop alpha 13s over the pirellis in the wet or mixed conditions. That said I prefer true rain tires in any situation with rain coming down.

Conditions: Brand, Front/Rear
Dry hot: Pirelli, Sc1/Sc1
Dry hot: Pirelli/Dunlop Sc1/A13 (trackday setup)
Dry medium: Pirelli, Sc1/Sc2
Dry colder: Pirelli, Sc1(2 if below 50 degrees)/Diablo Rosso II (Haven't tried 3)
Wet (no dry line at all) Hot/medium/cold: Dunlop rain tires (don't know the exact model tire, just their current rain tire)
Mixed hot/medium/cold: Dunlop, A13
Interesting you combine the pirelli front with the A13 rear. The A13 front was always the one that gave out first for me, though it was always in a controllable way. I never went down when I rode the front past the limit, the feedback was pretty predictable. That said, the SC front would still be sticking when the A13 would start to slide.

I've always been a Pirelli guy and I believe the SC's are the best you can get. But man I just got tired of paying for it, and the A13's were almost as good.
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Old June 9th, 2017, 07:30 PM   #22
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Interesting you combine the pirelli front with the A13 rear. The A13 front was always the one that gave out first for me, though it was always in a controllable way. I never went down when I rode the front past the limit, the feedback was pretty predictable. That said, the SC front would still be sticking when the A13 would start to slide.

I've always been a Pirelli guy and I believe the SC's are the best you can get. But man I just got tired of paying for it, and the A13's were almost as good.
I'm with you on Pirelli $$$ the Pirelli front/Dunlop rear was something I tried to avoid having to buy a new Pirelli rear. With my style of riding the rear grip doesn't matter unless I'm racing so the Dunlop is more than adequate to putt around ~1s off my race pace
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Old June 10th, 2017, 09:39 PM   #23
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a question for you guys running the A13. I bought my last winter have about 10 track days on them. I still have a little bit to go before the wear indicator, but today on the track I definitely felt the front slide a bit more. When do you guys usually change them out? I know Dunlop says heat cycles aren't relevant anymore. So is the wear indicator the only thing to go by?
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Old June 11th, 2017, 07:04 AM   #24
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If there is still plenty of wear left then I'd try playing around with the pressures a bit. I don't normally use the A13 front, only the rear, and it's obvious when it's time to change that one because there's no tread left and it's starting to slide under power on corner exits.

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Old June 11th, 2017, 11:38 AM   #25
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If there is still plenty of wear left then I'd try playing around with the pressures a bit. I don't normally use the A13 front, only the rear, and it's obviously when it's time to change that one because there's no tread left and it's starting to slide under power on corner exits.
I think I was running my rear a little soft off warmers around 26, seems like I need to be in 29-30 range. I have been running 32 on the front off warmers
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Old June 11th, 2017, 10:09 PM   #26
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I think I was running my rear a little soft off warmers around 26, seems like I need to be in 29-30 range. I have been running 32 on the front off warmers
They seem to grip better on the soft side. That big of a difference may be why you felt the front-end go first. Try,

Front=31
Rear=27

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Old June 12th, 2017, 03:55 PM   #27
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Yeah I've heard of people running much lower pressures on the Alphas. I've tried it and not really noticed any difference in terms of lap times, but they did seem to wear quicker and would generate weird wear patterns, so I bumped them back up close to the recommended levels.
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Old June 13th, 2017, 02:17 PM   #28
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Yeah I've heard of people running much lower pressures on the Alphas. I've tried it and not really noticed any difference in terms of lap times, but they did seem to wear quicker and would generate weird wear patterns, so I bumped them back up close to the recommended levels.
I felt some strange movement in the rear on a hard slow lefthand uphill turn on my rear. Like it was sliding out under power. Also I wonder how much faster it would turn in If i ran the rear at closer to the 30-32 recommended by dunlop rather than 26


have you ever run them at 33/33 like recommended?
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Old June 13th, 2017, 04:15 PM   #29
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I felt some strange movement in the rear on a hard slow lefthand uphill turn on my rear. Like it was sliding out under power. Also I wonder how much faster it would turn in If i ran the rear at closer to the 30-32 recommended by dunlop rather than 26

have you ever run them at 33/33 like recommended?
Yeah they squirm around a lot when running lower pressures. I've run them at stock pressure, but usually start at 29/27 COLD and then 32/32 when HOT
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Old June 14th, 2017, 09:43 AM   #30
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Yeah they squirm around a lot when running lower pressures. I've run them at stock pressure, but usually start at 29/27 COLD and then 32/32 when HOT
so maybe I will try 32/32 off warmers?
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Old June 14th, 2017, 03:34 PM   #31
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32/32 hot off warmers is what I use in warm weather.

Something of note though, I weigh about 215 lbs and my bike only had moderate weigh loss work done to it. I suspect scrawny guys with 50 less pounds of gut and 15-20 less pounds of bike can get away with lower pressures.

Everyone listing pressures should probably be qualifying that with body and bike weight. If I went down to 27 in the rear, my tires would overheat. If found that same thing with Pirelli SC's, some people's lower pressure suggestions would overheat them and they would start feeling greasy.
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Old June 14th, 2017, 05:08 PM   #32
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so maybe I will try 32/32 off warmers?
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Old June 15th, 2017, 01:00 PM   #33
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32/32 hot off warmers is what I use in warm weather.

Something of note though, I weigh about 215 lbs and my bike only had moderate weigh loss work done to it. I suspect scrawny guys with 50 less pounds of gut and 15-20 less pounds of bike can get away with lower pressures.

Everyone listing pressures should probably be qualifying that with body and bike weight. If I went down to 27 in the rear, my tires would overheat. If found that same thing with Pirelli SC's, some people's lower pressure suggestions would overheat them and they would start feeling greasy.
I am exactly the same weight, 215lb. and I could feel the rear squirm around a bit. Next track day I am putting on the takeoffs I got from Bruce, and I will try 32/32 off warmers. I think now that I am getting a bit faster its making the difference in what I am feeling whereas before I wasnt going fast enough to matter.
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Old June 15th, 2017, 01:32 PM   #34
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I'm about 195-lbs and like them at 31/29psi hot.
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Old June 24th, 2017, 12:09 PM   #35
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Going to give the new Power RS rear tire a try out next weekend. The tread on these looks really deep, so hoping for some long life as well.


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Old July 6th, 2017, 06:25 AM   #36
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MOTM - Nov '15
So I tried the Alpha 13’s on a practice day and during a 3 hour endurance race the following day and I rate them as an ok tire. They are pretty much as I thought: Not a true race tire but still decent and a good value if your money is tight. Are they capable of winning races? The answer is: It depends. We won our 3 hr endurance by 5 laps, but if you’re running at the sharp end of the field in a sprint race I wouldn’t recommend them. I think that a rider would be putting themselves at a slight disadvantage because the A 13’s just don’t have the outright grip that the Pirelli Supercorsas do. Even with endurance racing on a 250 Ninja we got the Pirellis to last for four three hour races so that still is pretty good. I suspect that the A 13’s would have similar or better life. The main issue I had with the Dunlops was the feedback: If you go into a corner after braking and are not immediately on the gas they will let you know they don’t like it by chattering or wiggling around. Now you might say that you’re not supposed to be off the gas in the middle of a corner. I would agree with that for the most part, but I would say that just about everybody gets into a corner a little hot now and then and we have a tendency to want to wait just a tiny bit to get back on the gas. The Dunlops don’t want to let you do that and I suppose in a way that is a good training tool to remind you to not to be off throttle in a corner. I did also find that in long high speed corners where you are not always hard on the gas the ‘Lops will not really chatter but do a front end “wiggle”. Kind of distracting when it happens. All of the issues that I experienced were with the front tire with one minor exception: I have a 300 Ninja rim on the back of my 250 to get the proper profile with the A 13 rear. The minor issue is that the edges of the tire are so close to the swingarm that it causes problems with catching my tire warmers during installation and removal. I had no issues with grip on the rear A 13 but I think that a 150 width tire is unnecessary for the 250. I used the Pirelli rear in a 140 width and had zero issues with grip, so I think that the Alpha 13 in a 150 size adds weight in the worst place possible with no performance benefit.
The biggest thing to me is that the A 13 front will slide earlier than the Pirelli. I was working on my line on a fairly tricky low speed corner and I hit some bumps at the apex which produced a chatter-slide-chatter. Biggest front end slide I’ve had in a while. Another medium speed corner where I was working on getting the exit right and I clipped the inside curbing which produced a tuck and a tankslapper enough that I decided to straighten up and ride off the track at a pretty good clip. Fortunately I just rode through the grass and eased back on the track without further incident. Would the Pirellis have just gripped when that happened? I can’t say for sure. I will say that my teammates did not experience the same issues that I did with the A 13’s as their riding style did not produce the same experience that I had with them
So it comes down to this: I know that we can win endurance races on the A 13’s and they are way cheaper than the Pirelli Supercorsas, but the A 13’s are simply not as good as the Supercorsas in terms of outright performance in the dry.
As for economy, I was tempted to try the A 13’s because they were so cheap. But cheapness really carries little weight when we are talking about doing what it takes to race and win. You might say: “but you won on the Dunlops. Why don’t you keep using them?” I’d say that we did win one race, but there are still four races to go and I don’t want an inferior tire if comes down to a close battle in a race and falling down does not help win championships. In the end it comes down to my preference and what produces the most confidence. For that, the Pirellis win hands down. I get better performance out of myself and my bike with the Pirellis so that is what I will be using for the forseeable future.
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Old July 6th, 2017, 10:24 AM   #37
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heh, heh... I tucked front-end in turn-2 @ Thunderhill a couple of times this last weekend. I guess adding throttle while tightening line and adding lean is not a good idea huh? hahahahaha.... Yeah, it waggled the front-end and I stood it up, went off-road a little and came back on.

Anyone know where I can find Alpha-13 rears in 140/70-17 in the U.S.? Seems they're available from everyone in Europe & Asia, just not here.

https://www.tyreleader.co.uk/motorbi...r17-66h-423794
https://www.mcas.com.au/shop/item/du...ha-13-tyres-05
http://firetires.de/dunlop/315-alpha...-r-17-66h.html
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Old July 6th, 2017, 12:09 PM   #38
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MOTM - May '17
only place in the usa here exclusive rights here unless you get used ones for someone else


http://stores.racetireservice.com/ninja-250r/
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Old July 6th, 2017, 02:17 PM   #39
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#$*!@# it!!! Damn greedy monopolistic filthy capitalist pigs!!!!

I think large part of "issues" people report with front-end is that 110/150 tyre combo has mismatched profiles. You're at edge of front-tyre while rounded rear has more room to lean. A 140/70 rear would be better match for 110/70 front. I've found lowering front-pressure and having just 1-2 psi difference F/R really improves balance. Still would be best to get 140/70 rear.

Horrible bastards! I'm switching to Pirelli !!!
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Old July 6th, 2017, 04:07 PM   #40
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MOTM - Nov '15
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacRyann View Post
#$*!@# it!!! Damn greedy monopolistic filthy capitalist pigs!!!!

I think large part of "issues" people report with front-end is that 110/150 tyre combo has mismatched profiles. You're at edge of front-tyre while rounded rear has more room to lean. A 140/70 rear would be better match for 110/70 front. I've found lowering front-pressure and having just 1-2 psi difference F/R really improves balance. Still would be best to get 140/70 rear.

Horrible bastards! I'm switching to Pirelli !!!
There is nothing inherent in the 140 profile that makes it a better match than a 150 for the 110 front . That is a matter of using the correct rim width and as I mentioned before, I put the 300 ninja 4" wide rim on the rear so that I wouldn't have a pinched profile. That is the rim width that Dunlop recommends for the A13 150.
When I switch back to the Pirellis I will use the 140 rear as I did before and go back to the stock 3.5" rim width.
The 140 rear Pirelli never gave me issues with grip, so there is no advantage to using the 150. In fact there is a disadvantage because the 150 tire weighs more which adversely affects acceleration.
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