July 8th, 2013, 10:40 AM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: UBX
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2009 ninja 250r engine ticking & knocking noise
HI all,
Thank goodness for this forum. I have a 2009 NINJA 250R, 6K miles, no modifications. I hope to give you as much details as possible. Service History: Got the bike used at about 4000 miles. Flushed and replaced the coolant at about 4500 miles. After i passed the 5500 miles i noticed that i kept on loosing coolant and the heat signal kept on coming on when riding in low speeds . I kept on re-filling the reserve coolant tank up to that point then learned that i had to fill it from the filler neck, which was a little low in coolant. After that i have no problems with the bike heating up. I have recently used seafoam on the gas tank for the last 2 consecutive fills(6 oz of seafoam with 3 gallons of gasoline). I have also used seafoam right before an oil change 4 oz of seafoam and rode for about 75 miles. Again, i have used seafoam on the engine oil after the oil change, 4 oz of seafoam and rode for about 150 miles with new oil, then the sound started. Lastly, in order to cancel out problem, after this incident i changed the oil again and have not ridden the bike yet. I have replaced both, front and rear break fluids 1 week before this noise. Here is the Story. I was riding on the highway doing about 90 mph on 90 degrees weather, when all of the sudden i felt that i was losing power followed by a LOUD knocking sound, i pulled the clutch (then the noise stopped when clutch is pulled in) and pulled over. I started the bike again and the knocking sound is there when idled. I started riding the bike again, yes even with the noise and all the way home for about 25 miles. Both light came on (engine & heat) and when i accelerate both lights turn off. For the first 10 miles i was doing 50-55 mph then the noise started getting louder and it actually died on me then i pulled over again when at that point the bike would not start. I press the ignition switch but it would not start. After about 10 minutes it started again so i rode for another 5 miles and the bike died on me again and it wouldn't start. Let it sit for another 10 minutes and it started again and managed to get home. I changed the oil and filter and have not ridden the bike because the ticking and knocking sound are still there. Please Help. Here is a link if you want to hear what it sounds like. The garage is closed when i took this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkd37R95wHk Thanks for the help guys. Last futzed with by ubxssangz; July 8th, 2013 at 02:01 PM. |
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July 8th, 2013, 10:49 AM | #2 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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oh dear.... that sounds of bearings.
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July 8th, 2013, 11:19 AM | #3 |
RIP Alex
Name: Cuong
Location: Houston, TX
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Sounds like you have one of the spark plug boots disconnected and arching with one cylinder running.
You know you're not suppose to put seafoam in the oil unless you're trying to clean out the internals and replacing the oil soon afterwards. Seafoam will thin the oil out and you can kiss goodbye to your motor. I'd check to make sure your oil isn't milky and sludged if you didn't know where your coolant is going.
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July 8th, 2013, 12:14 PM | #4 |
ninjette.org member
Name: UBX
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Join Date: Jun 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r Posts: 45
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I have bought new sparkplugs but i am now missing the stupid spark plug wrench. Have to buy one at a local hardware store. I am also hearing something about the cam chaim???
So, right now i have 2 options: 1) spark plugs. 2) cam chain. When i replaced the engine oil there wasn't any milky liquid coming out. However, there was milky thick oil on the crankcase/motor oil reservoir. I also would like to know if you guys are refering to the thicking or knocking noise. |
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July 8th, 2013, 12:30 PM | #5 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jake
Location: Columbus, IN
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Green 250 Posts: 58
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July 8th, 2013, 01:06 PM | #6 |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Like mentioned before, there is really no need for Seafoam or engine flush in a motorcycle engine, especially one with very little mileage like your. That type of treatment is usually reserved for engine that have been sitting for years and the oil has started to turn to a tar like goop. Using Seafoam lowers/thins the viscosity of the oil.
From the sound of you video, it sounds as if you only have one cylinder firing and a spark plug that's loose/broken and arcing. Do you have any signs of colored smoke coming out of your exhaust? There's over a dozen things that can be wrong at this point. I'd start with the basics (fuel, plugs, air filter, carbs, battery, loose connections, etc ), then look into other stuff. Here are a few things that could possibly be the cause of your issues. Poor Running at Low Speed: Spark weak: Battery voltage low Spark plug dirty, broken, or maladjusted Spark plug cap or high tension wiring trouble Spark plug cap shorted or not in good contact Spark plug incorrect IC ignitor trouble (a bad one can cause timing and firing issues) Crankshaft sensor trouble Ignition coil trouble Compression low: Spark plug loose Cylinder head not sufficiently tightened No valve clearance Cylinder, piston worn Piston ring bad (worn, weak, broken, or sticking) Piston ring/groove clearance excessive Cylinder head warped Cylinder head gasket damaged Valve spring broken or weak Valve not seating properly (valve bent, worn, or carbon accumulation on the seating surface) Look at the Troubleshooting Guide for more potential causes |
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July 8th, 2013, 01:44 PM | #7 |
ninjette.org member
Name: UBX
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i used 4 oz of seafoam in the engine oil.
I will try to change the sparkplug today and see what happens. I also forgot to mention, if it means anythng, that as the sound started both lights (engine & heat) cam on and when i press on the accelerator they go off. |
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July 8th, 2013, 04:25 PM | #8 | |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
1. at start up then turn off within a few seconds of running 2. when the oil pressure is too low ( too low idle speed can cause low oil pressure as well as a bad oil pump) 3. engine oil level is too low 4. engine oil poor quality or incorrect 5. overheating |
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July 8th, 2013, 07:21 PM | #9 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: UBX
Location: 07072
Join Date: Jun 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r Posts: 45
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Quote:
I was trying to change the spark plug and one of the end is different on the new one. Take a look at the picture, what should I do? Argggg, nothing is going right |
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July 8th, 2013, 07:42 PM | #10 | |
RIP Alex
Name: Cuong
Location: Houston, TX
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): '10 250r, '09 265r Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
The spark plug at the bottom of your picture needs the end to be unscrewed to match the one just above it. Motorcycles don't need the end or else the boot what snap onto the plug when installing.
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July 8th, 2013, 08:20 PM | #11 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: UBX
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July 9th, 2013, 06:06 AM | #12 |
RIP Alex
Name: Cuong
Location: Houston, TX
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): '10 250r, '09 265r Posts: A lot.
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Did you notice any metal flakes or sediment in any of your oil changes? Does the motor still sound the same since you changed the oil? Is the bike still making power or is it even slower/weaker than prior to power loss? Do a compression test and see what numbers you are getting in each cylinder.
If it's still ticking that loud, than that's not good. Sounds like bearing damage. Try disconnected one of the spark plug wires while it's running and note any changes in each cylinder. Don't shock yourself too.
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July 9th, 2013, 06:24 AM | #13 | |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Also do not rule out anything in the trouble shooting guide until you have inspected or tested it. Also from what you describe ("...i pulled the clutch (then the noise stopped when clutch is pulled in"), you may just want to have a look at your clutch also. If you are not too mechanically savvy, have a pro troubleshoot and fix it for you may be your next step. |
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July 9th, 2013, 07:24 AM | #14 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: UBX
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July 9th, 2013, 07:59 AM | #15 |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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July 9th, 2013, 01:41 PM | #17 |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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July 10th, 2013, 07:16 PM | #18 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: UBX
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Join Date: Jun 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r Posts: 45
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Quote:
F********ck. what now? Don't even know wtf these parts are? btw, i left both oil filter and oil screen opening open. Is it ok? http://youtu.be/UO9Fsuv8S1E |
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July 11th, 2013, 08:16 AM | #19 |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Not good.
Definitely some internal damage. Maybe cam journals, piston chunk? IDK. The only thing to do now is open up the engine case and see for sure. Looks like the shop for you. You can temporarily stuff a rag in the oil filter port or put the screen and cover back on. At this point there's no need to put oil back in it till it's fixed. Good luck |
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July 11th, 2013, 08:21 AM | #20 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Luis
Location: Albuquerque
Join Date: Jun 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r Posts: 47
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What the....
That's a lot more than flakes.... Wow. |
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July 11th, 2013, 05:02 PM | #22 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: UBX
Location: 07072
Join Date: Jun 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r Posts: 45
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July 12th, 2013, 02:57 AM | #23 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Robert
Location: South of you blokes.
Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): '92 GPX 250 (Gone and replaced with '08 V-Strom), 2005 Suzuki C50. Posts: 186
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Don't know about cost, but looks like you will be up for pistons. Hopefully the crank is still ok.
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July 12th, 2013, 05:39 AM | #24 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: UBX
Location: 07072
Join Date: Jun 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r Posts: 45
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Quote:
Is that rust? Should i do anything to it? spray seafoam? http://youtu.be/aMd6W_BESo8 |
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July 12th, 2013, 06:11 AM | #25 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Not Applicable
Location: hamden ct
Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Blue Ninja 250 Posts: 171
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I used to have a ticking sound but after it got really bad I reset my cam chain tensioner and the sound went away... you might've skipped a tooth or something from the cam chain slipping... I would take it to a shop, might charge you a couple hundred or more
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July 12th, 2013, 07:36 AM | #27 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Not Applicable
Location: hamden ct
Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Blue Ninja 250 Posts: 171
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i have a pre-gen, sorry but the procedure should be similar at the least
you have to take off the right side fairing and then follow these directions: http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Cam_cha...sioner_removal also read the 4th post in this thread: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=50930 if your bike already lost overall power you may have skipped a tooth... take it to a shop and hope for the best |
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July 12th, 2013, 07:40 AM | #28 | |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
DIY: Cam Chain tensioner rebuild Not sure why you are concerned about it. You've got bigger problems. The cam chain tensioner will be fixed when the engine is rebuilt as well as any other internal issue. |
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July 12th, 2013, 07:48 AM | #29 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Not Applicable
Location: hamden ct
Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Blue Ninja 250 Posts: 171
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July 12th, 2013, 08:06 AM | #30 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: UBX
Location: 07072
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July 12th, 2013, 08:08 AM | #32 |
RIP Alex
Name: Cuong
Location: Houston, TX
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): '10 250r, '09 265r Posts: A lot.
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You're better off with a good used motor. Not worth the effort, time, and money to rebuild it and it will end up costing you more. That's rust you see and it looks like water had gotten into the engine where it sat for a while.
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July 12th, 2013, 08:51 AM | #34 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Not Applicable
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Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Blue Ninja 250 Posts: 171
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The thought of having rust in my engine makes my stomach turn...
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July 12th, 2013, 08:57 AM | #35 | |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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Quote:
An engine swap is easy, just take pics of everything along the way. Some tape and a marker go a long way to label questionable hoes, bolts and what not. Just stick the tape on and write down what it goes to. Good luck!
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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July 12th, 2013, 08:58 AM | #36 | |
RIP Alex
Name: Cuong
Location: Houston, TX
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): '10 250r, '09 265r Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 2
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Quote:
I guess my estimation is very optimistic lol
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July 12th, 2013, 06:47 PM | #37 |
ninjette.org member
Name: keeb
Location: Virginia
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...anybody notice that this guy used water from a hose to clean his sight glass? I'm thinking he didn't remove the clutch cover before doing that. It would explain the rust and the motor generally hating life.
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=139312 When a motor sits for a long time it is possible for water (generally condensation) to collect in it. However, the water usually ends up at the very bottom of things since oil floats. It is usually also only a small amount of water that collects. I'm thinking UBX filled his motor with a substantial amount of water to get rust that high up in the transmission. |
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July 12th, 2013, 08:51 PM | #38 |
Fix It Till Ya Break It
Name: Asspyre
Location: T.Dot
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 08 250RRrrrr Posts: 623
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also,
PUT THE SEAFOAM DOWN..... that is all |
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