Just had a chat with dad about buying the bike....

[ArrizX]

What it comes down to is if I buy the bike I might as well pack up and move out.

Gotta love the "under my roof its my rules" mentaility. If this is the push for me to move out, so be it. Will be tough to get back to college next fall with out being at home since there are no dorms at the college, but Ill survive.

I must want this bike bad if I am considering moving out.

Just sayin'!

Edit-
To explain this a little more, he doesnt want me going into debt. Which I understand his point, but he refuses to see mine. I want a bike, and my Lifted Jeep just isnt cutting it for mileage at 10-12MPG. There is a reason behind it!

[CRXTrek]

With the economy like it is a motorcycle is a good thing ,but debt is not.

[ninja250]

Sell the jeep. You don't need it.

[ArrizX]

I do if I want to drive anything in the colder 6 months of the year.

And, I love to 4 Wheel, but thats irrelevent since I cant right now. Tires are big enough I keep breaking stuff, and I am trying to save money by not spending it on my Jeep, paying off my CC and Welder to buy the bike.

Ill have everything paid off in two weeks, and could go get a Ninja 250 for $79 a month at 4% interest. Right now I am paying out about 170 monthly, plus at least 250/300 monthly just for fuel.

[sombo]

Why not compromise and buy a pre-gen for cheap for now? You won't get as much debt, he might not be as against it if you explain it will help save money in the long run, you still get a great bike, you can always modify the pre-gen as well, and later down the road you can get a newer one.

You don't HAVE to buy new. I know people love the looks and upgrades they did to the new-gen, but sometimes you gotta draw a line and be a bit more reasonable.

It's just a suggestion that might work out better for all in the end.

(pssst - SUNNY: help me out, you and I seem to be the biggest pushers of the pre-gen model )

[kkim]

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28836

[Snake]

I have an old truck that gets the same poor gas mileage as your Jeep. When I bought my bike I did the math and figured out that the money I would save commuting on the bike would make me break even on the payments. So it was a win win situation. Try and make in understand that you will actualy be saving money by buying the bike. If you put it to him like that I think he will see the light.

[adouglas]

With all due respect I think you're being shortsighted.

Suck it up and use your brain instead of your glands. Think not about next month. Think about five years from now and be brutally honest with yourself. Stop rationalizing and start thinking.

Get out a piece of paper and make your best estimates of ALL your expenses if you have to move out. Then double them, because you WILL spend a lot more money than you think you will. You do realize that you're going to go even DEEPER in the hole if you have to pay rent, right? That'll make your Jeep fuel bill look like peanuts.

Sell the Jeep, use that money to buy a more efficient car (because you can use it to actually carry things, move, drive in the winter, take girls out, etc. etc. etc. etc.).

Then start saving for the bike. If you're spending hundreds on fuel now and can cut that in half, you'll have enough for the bike quickly. If you're saving even more on rent because you get to still live at home, you'll have enough to buy the bike outright in less than one year. If you can't save at that rate, HOW THE HECK ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO PAY YOUR RENT?

Thinking that all you need is a bike is BS. We all go to the store. We all have to carry passengers. We all have to transport more than ourselves from time to time.

If you do this, it's going to take you at least five years to get back to even if not more. I'M NOT KIDDING. Mark my words.

Don't spend money you don't have. Your dad is right, and that's the cold fact.

Buying a TOY (which this bike is) is not worth it!

[BlueTyke]

Originally Posted by sombo

(pssst - SUNNY: help me out, you and I seem to be the biggest pushers of the pre-gen model )

Hah! I am a big pusher for what feels more comfortable. I know that there is a seating difference on the pre-gen and the new-gen models. I haven't actually sat on new gen-one (mainly because I can't afford another bike)...

Don't get me wrong though I love my 250. No other bike will ever compare to my Tyke. Ever.

I think others have brought up budgetting. If you do move out of your father's house it would be more difficult. Not only do you have rent, you have food, utilities, etc...

IF you ABSOLUTELY have to buy a bike.. And are in a financial pinch.. I would go with the pre-gen. You can pick them up cheap.. Another thing about buying new is that you HAVE to get FULL coverage on the bike because it technically belongs to someone else. If you OWN the bike you can choose your coverage which might be cheaper. And I noticed when I own my vehicles my insurance is cheaper.. Not that I loose the full coverage because I am under the impression that everyone is out to get me... I'd rather not have to pay for it... I also keep my bike insured year round... You HAVE to if you are making payments on it.... If you own it you can make the choice not to have coverage on the off months (At your own risk, I am by no means endorsing this either way, just might be cheaper)


There are perks to buying new like the warrenty and if it breaks you have a better idea of how to fix it, take it back.

IF you are REALLY into being a motorcyclist and are into learning the ins and outs of things... Pre-gen/used is also a way to go because if it breaks... There is either taking it to a shop to fix it or.. fixing it yourself.. Course you could do that with a new one but then there might be warrenties voided...

Used = Do what you want to
New = Some restrictions may apply..

Again it is totally up to you. These are oppinons...

I see your point in the gas sippingness of the ninjas but I see your dad's too. Though with you due to pay off some of your debt, it can hurt or save you to have another bit of revolving credit on your score. Again another thing to look into.

This has been another rambling post by Sunny, it's due to thunder outside any minute and I cannot be riding...

[adouglas]

Justifying a bike purchase based on fuel savings doesn't really work out if you look objectively at the numbers.

If the bike costs $4400 (I'm assuming you can get it for $4000 out the door, which is very optimistic for a new bike... then the interest is going to cost you about $400 over the life of the loan. Look it up. The OP said $79 at 4 percent, which works out to a five-year loan, more or less.)

That means you need to save a ballpark $4400 in fuel to pay for the bike.
The OP says he's spending 300 a month (high side) on fuel, and his Jeep gets 10 mpg (low side... I'm being as pessimistic as possible to make the case as strong as it can be).

At $3 a gallon, that means he's burning 100 gallons a month, which means he's driving 1000 miles a month.

Joyrides where you wouldn't have used the Jeep don't count. This is a basic transportation swap. Joyrides only increase your expenses anyway.

Let's be generous with the bike, too, and assume it'll get an average of 60 mpg all the time.

Now let's be realistic about how much the bike will get used instead of the Jeep. 6 months of the year it's parked, right? The rest of the time, it will get used an average of maybe three and a half days a week. That doesn't count trips where you just took the bike out for fun. The OP lives in Washington, remember... not a place renowned for it's balmy, sunny weather.

It takes DEDICATION to ride every single day and realistically very, very few people do so even in areas where the weather is good most of the time.

So we've got a realistic 3000 miles a year of actual riding. Before any of you question this, ask yourselves how much you really rode last year for basic transportation. I commute every day the weather is good enough, which means any time the temperature is 40 degrees or better and the chance of rain is 40 percent or less. Total distance on a typical day is 50 miles. I bought my bike in July last year. I've put 5000 miles on it since, but I've ridden something like 3500 miles just for fun. And I parked it for only four and a half months, not six. So since last July, I've used it for real, practical transportation for 1500 miles. The other 4500 miles represent trips I would not have taken if I didn't have the bike.

Back to the OP's situation. Over 3000 miles at 10 mpg, the Jeep will burn 300 gallons of gas. At $3 a gallon, that's $900.

Over 3000 miles at 60 mpg, the Ninjette will burn 50 gallons. At $3 a gallon, that's $150.

So you're saving $750 a year.

4400 divided by 750 is 5.9 or thereabouts.

So you'll pay for the bike, sure... in 2016. By which time the bike will have 18,000 miles on it IF you keep riding it as much as it takes to pay it off that fast.

Note that I didn't account for the cost of gear or insurance. Those increase the cost of the bike and represent real expenses that you won't have if you don't buy the bike.

How many of us keep bikes for six years and 18,000 miles? By the time you've paid for it, you'll have worn it out.

[BlueTyke]

I should add that I do not use my bike to commute. My bike is a toy... A hobby if you will. Just... don't tell Tyke ^^

[bobguy]

Like Adouglas said it won't save you much money in the long run. It might make life more enjoyable though. If you save 750 on gas a year you will still pay at LEAST that out in maintenance and gear in one year...TRUST ME. Paying a shop it will be more...and doing it yourself and you have to buy tools ect. You'll burn through tires commuting that much as well.

I've had mine for 8 months and put 11,000 miles on it by commuting with it 4 outta 6 days a week and riding the hell out of it with my free time. The cost of gear and tires alone probably put me over $750.

The "saving money" argument isn't a good one. Keep working on your Dad. But I'd say save your money until you can buy one.

[Greg_E]

I think I'd put sensible tires back on the jeep to increase the mileage or sell it for a more reasonable 4 wheel vehicle. Then maybe see if a scooter would be a good first step to convincing the "death and doom" squad that a bike would be OK.

[capt_bugaloo]

Sell the Jeep and buy an old econo-car for a couple grand. You then still have 4 wheels for the winter. Then use the money you gained on the sale of the Jeep to buy a used older Ninja 250 for maybe $2000-$2500.

Problem solved. If your father still says no bike, it's time to leave the nest.

[ninjabrewer]

Originally Posted by adouglas

With all due respect I think you're being shortsighted.

Suck it up and use your brain instead of your glands. Think not about next month. Think about five years from now and be brutally honest with yourself. Stop rationalizing and start thinking.

Get out a piece of paper and make your best estimates of ALL your expenses if you have to move out. Then double them, because you WILL spend a lot more money than you think you will. You do realize that you're going to go even DEEPER in the hole if you have to pay rent, right? That'll make your Jeep fuel bill look like peanuts.

Sell the Jeep, use that money to buy a more efficient car (because you can use it to actually carry things, move, drive in the winter, take girls out, etc. etc. etc. etc.).

Then start saving for the bike. If you're spending hundreds on fuel now and can cut that in half, you'll have enough for the bike quickly. If you're saving even more on rent because you get to still live at home, you'll have enough to buy the bike outright in less than one year. If you can't save at that rate, HOW THE HECK ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO PAY YOUR RENT?

Thinking that all you need is a bike is BS. We all go to the store. We all have to carry passengers. We all have to transport more than ourselves from time to time.

If you do this, it's going to take you at least five years to get back to even if not more. I'M NOT KIDDING. Mark my words.

Don't spend money you don't have. Your dad is right, and that's the cold fact.

Buying a TOY (which this bike is) is not worth it!

When I was in socal for 7 months last summer, I did ride practically everyday, she was my only transportation. To/from work, grocery store where ever. But I also lived in a hotel room, lived 3 miles from and it rained 3 days the entire time I was there. I am now in Tacoma, WA and it has not really been riding weather very much in the past month that I have been here.

As adouglas has said, be BRUTALLY HONEST with the figures, you will always spend more than you think. Living expenses will add up, esp the little things that most don't think about, ie work clothes, food items that you don't buy very often ie spices, etc etc etc.

just my

nb

[adouglas]

Dunno. Still seems a waste of time to me.

The Jeep is still going to get crappy mileage even with better tires. The tires are going to cost $500 at minimum, the scooter is going to cost a grand minimum....

Just get a decent car with good gas mileage, start a savings plan and watch your money grow. Your parents will like you better, which is its own reward.

Look, I'm 51, way older than most of the people on this forum. I HAVE BEEN THERE. I know how frustrating it can be to not get what you want. But I also have the perspective to KNOW that your dad is right.

I love my life. I have a blast, because I don't let instant gratification and shiny new toys become the most important thing to me. That's a hard lesson to learn, but it's a really valuable one.

If I bought into the whole leasing/financing/sure-you-can-afford-the-payments/I'm-actually-SAVING-money-rationalization nonsense I'd be riding a BMW and driving one too. And I'd have a mortgage. And a lot of credit card debt. My income could support the payments.

But what for? Sure I'd have much nicer toys and I'd live in a nicer neighborhood, but I'd be leveraged to the hilt and worried about losing it all every single day of my life. Screw that. That's the kind of thinking that got us all into this mess in the first place.

So instead of the BMW I drive a Honda Fit. It gets 35 mpg all the time no matter how I drive it AND it's got enough room to carry all my band equipment. And I bought it outright, saving thousands in financing costs. No loan, no payments, no stress.

Likewise, I bought my bike outright, saving hundreds in financing costs. No loan, no payments, no stress, no family drama, no arguments, no long-term damage to relationships.... Mucho fun.

I've got money in the bank, which beats debt any day of the week.

And it wasn't really that hard to do... all it took was a little bit of patience. I started thinking about buying this bike the moment I saw the 08 redesign. I just started saving money and when I had enough I bought one.

[rceezy]

Being debt free is the most amazing feeling on the planet. Don't dig yourself into a hole you can't get out of. Especially if your dad is saying that you can no longer reside in his residence if you purchase a bike. You don't want to be broke as well as having nowhere to sleep.

If you want to be an adult, you have to think like one.... just my 2 pennies.

[dimeified]

this may seem a bit off topic, but, are there any statistics out there about bike accidents? specifically referencing the size or type of bike the rider was riding? i wouldn't be surprised to find that ninjettes are involved in less accidents than liter or even 650 race bikes.

[izmail1215]

i was in the same shoes but my dad is like no outer i have the same deal as you as well as the same car as you. i told him about the ninja250r he no i am your dad i said no its dangerous blah blah so when i moved out and went to colloge i share an apartment with another friend so i sold my jeep and got the bike later i told him i dont go any where out side of school gym wal mart ect no where near the high way (il add some later)

[alex.s]

IMHO it doesn't seem like you should be disrupting your schooling by adding a large expense (with the potential to become a MASSIVE expense very easily) in both time and money such as a bike (and gear, and insurance, and maintenance, etc, etc). and if you don't think that large expenses would disrupt your schooling, or think that your schooling isn't important, well... you're only fooling yourself.
have you ever heard the term "starving student"? maybe not considering how lucky it sounds like you have it right now without even realizing it. you have free housing (and probably some free food as well considering it's your parents house). do you know how much easier that makes going to school?
unless you're already in your target profession, i would suggest working harder at achieving a stable income before i would worry about spending money on your luxury time. and yes, a bike is luxury time if you already have a car.
and don't get me started on MPG. buying a bike if you already have a car is like buying a prius. the cost added for buying a prius compared to similar sized/equipped cars means it would take something like 6 years before the additional up-front cost paid off the gas costs you save.

edit: this sounds like i'm discouraging buying a bike. i'm not. i think everyone should ride a bike at some point. i just don't think right now might be the best time for you to buy your own bike. maybe try taking those ridiculous tires off your jeep?

[GeneJunkie]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Justifying a bike purchase based on fuel savings doesn't really work out if you look objectively at the numbers.

If the bike costs $4400 (I'm assuming you can get it for $4000 out the door, which is very optimistic for a new bike... then the interest is going to cost you about $400 over the life of the loan. Look it up. The OP said $79 at 4 percent, which works out to a five-year loan, more or less.)

That means you need to save a ballpark $4400 in fuel to pay for the bike.
The OP says he's spending 300 a month (high side) on fuel, and his Jeep gets 10 mpg (low side... I'm being as pessimistic as possible to make the case as strong as it can be).

At $3 a gallon, that means he's burning 100 gallons a month, which means he's driving 1000 miles a month.

Joyrides where you wouldn't have used the Jeep don't count. This is a basic transportation swap. Joyrides only increase your expenses anyway.

Let's be generous with the bike, too, and assume it'll get an average of 60 mpg all the time.

Now let's be realistic about how much the bike will get used instead of the Jeep. 6 months of the year it's parked, right? The rest of the time, it will get used an average of maybe three and a half days a week. That doesn't count trips where you just took the bike out for fun. The OP lives in Washington, remember... not a place renowned for it's balmy, sunny weather.

It takes DEDICATION to ride every single day and realistically very, very few people do so even in areas where the weather is good most of the time.

So we've got a realistic 3000 miles a year of actual riding. Before any of you question this, ask yourselves how much you really rode last year for basic transportation. I commute every day the weather is good enough, which means any time the temperature is 40 degrees or better and the chance of rain is 40 percent or less. Total distance on a typical day is 50 miles. I bought my bike in July last year. I've put 5000 miles on it since, but I've ridden something like 3500 miles just for fun. And I parked it for only four and a half months, not six. So since last July, I've used it for real, practical transportation for 1500 miles. The other 4500 miles represent trips I would not have taken if I didn't have the bike.

Back to the OP's situation. Over 3000 miles at 10 mpg, the Jeep will burn 300 gallons of gas. At $3 a gallon, that's $900.

Over 3000 miles at 60 mpg, the Ninjette will burn 50 gallons. At $3 a gallon, that's $150.

So you're saving $750 a year.

4400 divided by 750 is 5.9 or thereabouts.

So you'll pay for the bike, sure... in 2016. By which time the bike will have 18,000 miles on it IF you keep riding it as much as it takes to pay it off that fast.

Note that I didn't account for the cost of gear or insurance. Those increase the cost of the bike and represent real expenses that you won't have if you don't buy the bike.

How many of us keep bikes for six years and 18,000 miles? By the time you've paid for it, you'll have worn it out.

The cheapest you can get a new 2010 Ninja 250 is $4200 out the door... actually its $4500 out the door, there was a $300 rebate when I bought my bike. If you finance, the interest is 3.9% for 24 months if you fall into tier 1 financing, after 24 months it jumps to 15.99%.

In SoCal we can ride 12 months out of the year (and it rains probably 7 of those days out the year lol) so it's cost effective. If you can't ride 6 months out of the year, and I'm assuming you wouldn't want to ride in the rain, you will still need a car/truck, etc. In addition, you mentioned that you are going to college soon, so 18 years old and male so getting motorcycle insurance will be extremely expensive even though its a 250.

Honestly sell the Jeep and get a more fuel efficient car and wait to get a bike until you are a bit older and have a steady income. If you are worried about AWD, get a Subaru I loved mine when I lived in CT.

[Hadyn]

I was in nearly the exact situation not 5 weeks ago. I'd had my heart set on a motorcycle, but I was living with my parents and they were vehemently against it. It was the 'my house, my rules' thing. I did everything right: I did research, took the class, got my license, saved the money, found the right bike, bought the gear and knew the risks, and all they would ever say was 'not while you're living in this house!'

So I moved out. Well, it's not really that simple. I have a full time job, so I have the income to be financially independent. The first step was to write up a living expenses sheet. I put in everything; food, clothing, car insurance (don't forget to add the bike insurance too!) medical, potential bike maintenance, savings, etc. Every single thing I could think of that I spend money on went in the sheet. Subtracting the subtotal from my monthly/yearly income, I got what I had to spend on rent. I looked around, found a roommate (crucial, if you want to live cheap), found an apartment, and moved out.

If you can't afford it, just wait. Don't take out a loan to finance a toy. I had spent almost two years trying to convince my parents to let me own a bike, and by the time I moved out they had finally agreed to a compromise. Don't do anything stupid, and be patient with your dad. There's a good chance that he'll come around and at least be willing to work out some kind of deal.

Originally Posted by dimeified

this may seem a bit off topic, but, are there any statistics out there about bike accidents? specifically referencing the size or type of bike the rider was riding? i wouldn't be surprised to find that ninjettes are involved in less accidents than liter or even 650 race bikes.

Yes, the Hurt Report showed that larger bikes are involved in accidents more often. The list of findings is more than worth the 5 minutes it takes to read them.

[rustler753]

You can buy a pre-gen ninja 250 for less than $2k. I don't see how thats massive dept. Sell the jeep and get a more economical car?

[ScraitT]

Have you ever thought about getting a dirtbike or ATV instead of a street bike. You said you love offroading (hence the lifted jeep). Try getting an older dirtbike, if you enjoy it enough, you sell the jeep for a car with better mileage. Then maybe in a year or so, you upgrade the bike to a dual sport and slowly start getting some street experience in.

That way you get the enjoyment of a bike, the enjoyment of offroading, the fuel savings of a car, and no insurance cost on the bike. In fact, if you went that route and sold the jeep, the insurance on a small car will be cheaper, so you would save on gas and insurance.
It would also give you valuable riding experience before getting on the roads with a bike, very valuable experience. It will also slowly warm your dad up to the idea of you being on a bike.

I tried to stay off road as long as possible. I have 2 dirtbikes still, but there just isn't any legal places around to ride anymore, they have closed them all down. That's the ONLY reason I bought a street bike...I love to ride, and I'll do it one way or another. If there was legal places left to ride around here, I would probably sell the 250r tomorrow and go back offroad, it's a lot safer

[CC Cowboy]

Buy an old Yamaha 350 dual sport and have fun.

[ArrizX]

Lots of good information in here, I was dying to read the thread. You will get my responses when I have a little more time tonight to explain things better, since this thread erupted way more then I thought it would

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Buy an old Yamaha 350 dual sport and have fun.

"But, Dad, it's a bicycle...."

[Anteraan]

I'm with adouglas on this one, but then again I'm also ancient by your (OP's) standards at 39. I made a lot of dumb mistakes with debt early in my life, and having gotten them straightened out now (own my car, own the car my mother drives, own my motorcycle, no credit card debt, house will be paid off in 5-7 yrs), life is SO much more enjoyable.

Now, certain portions of my debts would have been unavoidable, given my lower-middle class upbringing. However, I could have overcome them a lot sooner if I had cut down some on the school loans and credit cards, and lived more within my means.

Fortunately, I made choices later on that helped me get to where I am today. I could have easily gotten approved for a more expensive house, gotten a nicer car, nicer motorcycle, etc. However, it was just those choices in the past (paid-off car and credit cards helped me get the house) that allowed me to make my present and future as bright as they are.

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by adouglas

With all due respect I think you're being shortsighted.

Suck it up and use your brain instead of your glands. Think not about next month. Think about five years from now and be brutally honest with yourself. Stop rationalizing and start thinking.

Get out a piece of paper and make your best estimates of ALL your expenses if you have to move out. Then double them, because you WILL spend a lot more money than you think you will. You do realize that you're going to go even DEEPER in the hole if you have to pay rent, right? That'll make your Jeep fuel bill look like peanuts.

Sell the Jeep, use that money to buy a more efficient car (because you can use it to actually carry things, move, drive in the winter, take girls out, etc. etc. etc. etc.).

Then start saving for the bike. If you're spending hundreds on fuel now and can cut that in half, you'll have enough for the bike quickly. If you're saving even more on rent because you get to still live at home, you'll have enough to buy the bike outright in less than one year. If you can't save at that rate, HOW THE HECK ARE YOU GOING TO BE ABLE TO PAY YOUR RENT?

Thinking that all you need is a bike is BS. We all go to the store. We all have to carry passengers. We all have to transport more than ourselves from time to time.

If you do this, it's going to take you at least five years to get back to even if not more. I'M NOT KIDDING. Mark my words.

Don't spend money you don't have. Your dad is right, and that's the cold fact.

Buying a TOY (which this bike is) is not worth it!

Originally Posted by ninjabrewer

When I was in socal for 7 months last summer, I did ride practically everyday, she was my only transportation. To/from work, grocery store where ever. But I also lived in a hotel room, lived 3 miles from and it rained 3 days the entire time I was there. I am now in Tacoma, WA and it has not really been riding weather very much in the past month that I have been here.

As adouglas has said, be BRUTALLY HONEST with the figures, you will always spend more than you think. Living expenses will add up, esp the little things that most don't think about, ie work clothes, food items that you don't buy very often ie spices, etc etc etc.

just my

nb

Originally Posted by rceezy

Being debt free is the most amazing feeling on the planet. Don't dig yourself into a hole you can't get out of. Especially if your dad is saying that you can no longer reside in his residence if you purchase a bike. You don't want to be broke as well as having nowhere to sleep.

If you want to be an adult, you have to think like one.... just my 2 pennies.

Originally Posted by alex.s

IMHO it doesn't seem like you should be disrupting your schooling by adding a large expense (with the potential to become a MASSIVE expense very easily) in both time and money such as a bike (and gear, and insurance, and maintenance, etc, etc). and if you don't think that large expenses would disrupt your schooling, or think that your schooling isn't important, well... you're only fooling yourself.
have you ever heard the term "starving student"? maybe not considering how lucky it sounds like you have it right now without even realizing it. you have free housing (and probably some free food as well considering it's your parents house). do you know how much easier that makes going to school?
unless you're already in your target profession, i would suggest working harder at achieving a stable income before i would worry about spending money on your luxury time. and yes, a bike is luxury time if you already have a car.
and don't get me started on MPG. buying a bike if you already have a car is like buying a prius. the cost added for buying a prius compared to similar sized/equipped cars means it would take something like 6 years before the additional up-front cost paid off the gas costs you save.

edit: this sounds like i'm discouraging buying a bike. i'm not. i think everyone should ride a bike at some point. i just don't think right now might be the best time for you to buy your own bike. maybe try taking those ridiculous tires off your jeep?

+1 to all of this.

Your dad is looking out for your financial well being....and in this day and age, that's a wonderful thing. You don't need a bike. If you live in a place with winter...you definitely DO NOT need a motorcycle. If you cannot afford to own one, it's not worth going into debt for. This is hipocritical coming from a guy with 2 motorcycles....but trust me on this.

[kazam58]

I'm 18, at college right now (well, home for a quick break before I go back for summer courses) and I see everyone's point. Having a motorcycle is cool at this age, I won't lie...However, it is possibly the most impractical thing ever. I'm lucky I received huge scholarships, etc, etc, and don't have to pay for school. I found cheap housing and my parents agreed to pay for that. I'm raking in $150 a week through my tutoring jobs (while being a full time student) and it's a hassle; I don't sleep much. Between paying for food, laundry, gas, insurance, EVERYTHING but the schooling and housing, I usually draw even. The money in my savings account is only there because it's left over from high school. The motorcycle also becomes much more expensive than a car very quickly. It requires more routine maintenance and the gear for it is a hell of a lot more expensive than buckling your seat belt. Then you'll need to upgrade it (kind of like you needed to buy it in the first place) or you'll drop it or crash and you get a surprise expense you can't afford because you've been living on Ramen noodles for a week and have malnutrition. Pick up a turbocharged sports car, it's 0-60 is similar and you'll pick up just as many chicks...and you can bring more of them home....

adouglas has a point. listen to it, then decide. The only way I'm surviving is because of my parent's help. Without it, I'd be toast right now and I'd have to sell the motorcycle.

[Apex]

I was in the same boat years ago when I was in high school. I wanted a motorcycle, my mom wanted me to keep the car. She gave me the "not while you live here" speech. So I just decided that I would get one when I move out.

When I turned 18, I got a job (which happened to be out of state, she was not happy lol). I moved out and once I knew my finances, I got my Suzuki GS500. It was a great purchase for me and worked very well. Just be patient, there is plenty of life left to live on a motorcycle.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Apex

When I turned 18, I got a job (which happened to be out of state, she was not happy lol). I moved out and once I knew my finances, I got my Suzuki GS500. It was a great purchase for me and worked very well. Just be patient, there is plenty of life left to live on a motorcycle.

+1... Getting a motorcycle because you've moved out is way better than moving out because you got a motorcyle.

[ArrizX]

Let me first say I appreciate everyones input and have read the entire thread.

But..................

Originally Posted by adouglas

Justifying a bike purchase based on fuel savings doesn't really work out if you look objectively at the numbers.

If the bike costs $4400 (I'm assuming you can get it for $4000 out the door, which is very optimistic for a new bike... then the interest is going to cost you about $400 over the life of the loan. Look it up. The OP said $79 at 4 percent, which works out to a five-year loan, more or less.)

That means you need to save a ballpark $4400 in fuel to pay for the bike.
The OP says he's spending 300 a month (high side) on fuel, and his Jeep gets 10 mpg (low side... I'm being as pessimistic as possible to make the case as strong as it can be).

At $3 a gallon, that means he's burning 100 gallons a month, which means he's driving 1000 miles a month.

Joyrides where you wouldn't have used the Jeep don't count. This is a basic transportation swap. Joyrides only increase your expenses anyway.

Let's be generous with the bike, too, and assume it'll get an average of 60 mpg all the time.

Now let's be realistic about how much the bike will get used instead of the Jeep. 6 months of the year it's parked, right? The rest of the time, it will get used an average of maybe three and a half days a week. That doesn't count trips where you just took the bike out for fun. The OP lives in Washington, remember... not a place renowned for it's balmy, sunny weather.

It takes DEDICATION to ride every single day and realistically very, very few people do so even in areas where the weather is good most of the time.

So we've got a realistic 3000 miles a year of actual riding. Before any of you question this, ask yourselves how much you really rode last year for basic transportation. I commute every day the weather is good enough, which means any time the temperature is 40 degrees or better and the chance of rain is 40 percent or less. Total distance on a typical day is 50 miles. I bought my bike in July last year. I've put 5000 miles on it since, but I've ridden something like 3500 miles just for fun. And I parked it for only four and a half months, not six. So since last July, I've used it for real, practical transportation for 1500 miles. The other 4500 miles represent trips I would not have taken if I didn't have the bike.

Back to the OP's situation. Over 3000 miles at 10 mpg, the Jeep will burn 300 gallons of gas. At $3 a gallon, that's $900.

Over 3000 miles at 60 mpg, the Ninjette will burn 50 gallons. At $3 a gallon, that's $150.

So you're saving $750 a year.

4400 divided by 750 is 5.9 or thereabouts.

So you'll pay for the bike, sure... in 2016. By which time the bike will have 18,000 miles on it IF you keep riding it as much as it takes to pay it off that fast.

Note that I didn't account for the cost of gear or insurance. Those increase the cost of the bike and represent real expenses that you won't have if you don't buy the bike.

How many of us keep bikes for six years and 18,000 miles? By the time you've paid for it, you'll have worn it out.

Okay, I appreciate what you did, and I see exactly where youre coming from. And good assumptions. Not saying your wrong, but i'd like to show you my point of view.




So, this month if it goes like the rest of the month I will be paying out a total 270 for gas. Depending where I get gas, this week its been 3.11. That is 86.8 gallons of fuel. Meaning, on average I do 10 MPG. 860 miles this month. I say 10MPG because I get slightly lower when I pull the work trailer, and slightly higher with out. I pull the trailer enough to even it out at 10.


If I buy the bike, 79 dollars @ 4% does equal just shy of 5 years. Minium payment (if I chose to do so....).

Midrange insurance for me would be about 44 dollars a month for the bike. I do not pay my own insurance on my Jeep. (lucky me.. still on parents plan).

So total for the bike so far a month is 123 excluding gas. Lets assume I drive and get 75MPG. ( would change the gear for lower RPMs.... been reported to get 80-85 on another forum however I will just keep it at 75 for *worse case senario*). And lets assume I did the same driving this month. 860 / 75 = 11.5 gallons of fuel. Which would mean 35.6 dollars a month on fuel.

Running total for the bike a month is 158.6. However the number for fuel would drop a smidge since if I didnt have to pull the trailer (forced to use a work truck, obviously) id use less miles. That aside though.

I have two payments I make a month. Credit card and a welder. Both are being paid off with my next paycheck. Which means I have no other monthly expenses. Both of those payments combined are 175 (not minium payments, what I actually pay).


Once I pay both of those off, I will pay less for a motorcycle then I was in the first place when I had two other debts. And, when I dont pay both of those debts, thats 160 more dollars that could go to a motorcycle payment. So I could double the payment and have it paid off in 2.5 years and not have the bike worn out, have it cost less per mile than my Jeep, and get value out of the dollar I spend vs. just burning it in the tank of my Jeep.

I hope this makes sense.


Oh, and for riding time you mentioned. I would drive every possible day (I just kinda love being on a bike) and riding season would be 8 months on a bike and 4 months garaged. I live in Washington, but its not that Washington. I live in Eastern Washington... its dry desert over on this side. Routinly triple digits in the summer. Think Arizona and you have an idea of what its like here. But with snow in the winter, if that makes any sense lol.


In essense I would like to say that I want to do more on the bike then commute. Its not a work bike. I would also do rides/events and have fun with it. Just like my jeep right now. I work with it, but I still 4x4 it. I would use the bike to drive over to see my brother 3 hours away, and ride it down to AZ to see my buddy who just moved there. I cant afford routine trips in the Jeep with gas how it is. Right now a assuming I even do a really awesome 13 MPG with the lifted box Jeep Wrangler its a 1300 mile trip. That makes it easy at 100 gallons @ the current standard of gas up here at 3.11 is 311 dollars. I will do worse case senario even with sprocket on the highway just for shits and giggles. at 60MPG. That is still only 21.6 gallons. Thats only a 67 dollar trip. But with a sprocket change I would get WELL over 60MPG. So I would assume with out math more abouts a 50 dollar trip. Just to drive down and back round trip on the bike to AZ would cost 1/3rd of what just driving down there would cost on my Jeep. And since I want to do it more then once a year, I am saving a good bit of money just on road trips.

For the record, I have gear. Buying that is a non issue and not factored into any of my costs.

[sombo]

First, don't count on getting 75mpg even with a sprocket change. I'd say more like 65mpg if you get a new-gen. The ones that are getting the 75-85mpg are the pre-gens like mine. They may not look as good but are faster and more fuel efficient then the new-gens (go figure huh?). So I still stand by my earlier suggestion of going with a compromise.

If you are so determined to get a 250 ninja I still suggest getting a cheaper used 250F model instead of a new 250J model. This way you get even better gas mileage, save money on insurance, get the open feeling you desire, don't go into debt (think $1500 vs $4500), and might actually win over your dad.

It's plain to see you will not be talked out of getting a bike. But I seriously suggest looking at the idea of the older 250 and talking it over with your dad with the money savings and see if that will win him over.

[Greg_E]

If you have a loan on the bike, you will almost certainly need full insurance will will probably be more than you quoted (but I could be wrong).

Considering that you said you pull thew work trailer, that will be damn hard to do with the cycle.

I would suggest an older model too, might as well put that money in the bank to save for a new vehicle down the road.

[dimeified]

I still owe money on my bike, as such i am required to have full insurance, which amounts to about 93 bucks a month. I dont have the sqeakiest cleanest driving record.

[GeneJunkie]

Originally Posted by ArrizX

If I buy the bike, 79 dollars @ 4% does equal just shy of 5 years. Minium payment (if I chose to do so....).

Midrange insurance for me would be about 44 dollars a month for the bike. I do not pay my own insurance on my Jeep. (lucky me.. still on parents plan).

First off where are you getting financed? As I stated before the Kawasaki Good Times Card currently 3.9% for 24 months and after 2 years it jumps to 15.99% and this is only if you make tier 1 financing aka credit score of about 650 (not exactly what the limit is for Kawi). BTW Kawasaki Good Times Credit Card does not require proof of insurance at the time of purchase. Also don't expect that you can finance 100% of the bike, most dealers will expect you to put something down, ideally 25% of the cost of the bike.

In addition the cheapest you can get a new 2010 Ninja 250 is $4500 out the door and that is only if the sales manager wants to give you the bike for $100 over invoice (or cost of the bike to the dealership).

Finally you may think now that you don't have to worry about insurance for the Jeep. If your dad is going to the great lengths of evicting you from their home because of the bike, do you really think they are going to keep you on their insurance plan?

[PitBull]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

+1 to all of this.

Your dad is looking out for your financial well being....and in this day and age, that's a wonderful thing. You don't need a bike. If you live in a place with winter...you definitely DO NOT need a motorcycle. If you cannot afford to own one, it's not worth going into debt for. This is hipocritical coming from a guy with 2 motorcycles....but trust me on this.

+1

Time to listen to dear old dad. Get rid of the Jeep, buy and economy car and focus on college.

[ArrizX]

Originally Posted by sombo

First, don't count on getting 75mpg even with a sprocket change. I'd say more like 65mpg if you get a new-gen. The ones that are getting the 75-85mpg are the pre-gens like mine. They may not look as good but are faster and more fuel efficient then the new-gens (go figure huh?). So I still stand by my earlier suggestion of going with a compromise.

If you are so determined to get a 250 ninja I still suggest getting a cheaper used 250F model instead of a new 250J model. This way you get even better gas mileage, save money on insurance, get the open feeling you desire, don't go into debt (think $1500 vs $4500), and might actually win over your dad.

It's plain to see you will not be talked out of getting a bike. But I seriously suggest looking at the idea of the older 250 and talking it over with your dad with the money savings and see if that will win him over.

Thats interesting. I am going to talk to him about savings soon... because I still think it will save me money. Its really not that I cant get talked out of buying a bike. I could fairly easily. Its just I feel I also have a strong case to have a bike. (save a little money, get more value out of what I spend instead of just fuel... etc)

Originally Posted by Greg_E

If you have a loan on the bike, you will almost certainly need full insurance will will probably be more than you quoted (but I could be wrong).

Considering that you said you pull thew work trailer, that will be damn hard to do with the cycle.

I would suggest an older model too, might as well put that money in the bank to save for a new vehicle down the road.

I am not required to have any insurance on the bike, by the dealership or legally by the state. Not to say I wont have it, just saying I dont need it.

I think I will look at an older model, but I would rather buy my first bike brand new for several reasons.

And I think you missed where if I bought the bike I would get to use the work truck

Originally Posted by dimeified

I still owe money on my bike, as such i am required to have full insurnace, which amounts to about 93 bucks a month. I dont have the sqeakiest cleanest driving record.

I have talked with the dealership about this, and I dont need the insruance. But I do have a near perfect driving record. One crash that wasnt my fault 3 years ago. No tickets.

Originally Posted by GeneJunkie

First off where are you getting financed? As I stated before the Kawasaki Good Times Card currently 3.9% for 24 months and after 2 years it jumps to 15.99% and this is only if you make tier 1 financing aka credit score of about 650 (not exactly what the limit is for Kawi). BTW Kawasaki Good Times Credit Card does not require proof of insurance at the time of purchase. Also don't expect that you can finance 100% of the bike, most dealers will expect you to put something down, ideally 25% of the cost of the bike.

In addition the cheapest you can get a new 2010 Ninja 250 is $4500 out the door and that is only if the sales manager wants to give you the bike for $100 over invoice (or cost of the bike to the dealership).

Finally you may think now that you don't have to worry about insurance for the Jeep. If your dad is going to the great lengths of evicting you from their home because of the bike, do you really think they are going to keep you on their insurance plan?

Thanks for explaining all that.

Financing would happen through the dealership..But as stated I could pay the the bike off in just over 2.5 years if I put down my existing payments on the bike payment too. That is only 5 months at 15% after the initial two years..

To be perfectly clear when I said I "Might as well pack up and move out"in my original post, thats not to be confused with kicking me out. Its because every payment would be mine, I mean they really only help on my Jeep insurance and cell phone bill but that is a big help. My dad has an extraordinary "my way or the highway" mentality. Ive been contemplating moving out for about a year now, also unrelated to having a bike or not. But I never do since its so much easier at home. And still would be even if I took over my Jeep and phone payment. You cant find anything decent to rent in my area for under 1200/mo. But thats beside the point.....

[ArrizX]

Originally Posted by PitBull

+1

Time to listen to dear old dad. Get rid of the Jeep, buy and economy car and focus on college.

I'm not selling my Jeep. Ive put hours and hours into my Jeep making it unique, personalized and mine. It crossed my mind and would be the smart thing to do but I'll take the Jeep to my gave. I mean not the smartest decisino ever but I'm happy driving it and Its gonna stay that way