Sharing the Road with Road Ragers... I just got called an A-Hole

[RedNinja09]

So, I was taking a nice nite ride home, taking the looooong way because it was such a NICE warm summer night. So, I am on a 4 lane road, 2 lanes going north and 2 going south. It is somewhat lit, a fair amount of traffic. I look up ahead and I see an ambulance on the other side of the road. A few cars pull over and I slow down but dont stop. It is dark and at the speed I was going it wasnt safe. As I begin to accelerate, I hear yelling. I look over and this jagoff in a truck is literally screaming at me "YOU F-ING A-HOLE NEED TO STOP WHEN AN AMBULANCE GOES BY YOU A-HOLE." I was was shocked that someone would take the time, with such anger to scream at me.

So, I promply give him the finger and in a rage, this guy jerks his car halfway into my lane. It scared the SH*T out of me. This guy could have knocked me off my bike or GOD KNOWS what would have happened. My adreline kicked in and I got freaked out this guy would zoom up behind me and try some crap. But, he didnt. I was shocked at the balls on this guy and the NERVE to scream at me like a piece of trash.

Watch out fellow riders, there are some real nutbags with anger problems on the road. Sheesh.

Red

[gogoKawi]

I feel your pain. This is a daily occurrence for me.

I never give people the finger. I will yell and shake my fist at them. But the finger is a big no-no, especially on the 250. They are in a car while I am on a bike. Car will always win if there is any retaliation by the driver. Plus if they decide to do anything crazy, you can't outrun them on the 250, unless you are in bumper-2-bumper traffic and lane split.

[RedNinja09]

You know GoGo, I NEVER give the finger... EVER. I dont know what possessed me to do that ? ! Not on my bike or in my car. I guess this guy was so out of line and he couldnt hear me with my helmet on, I just gave him the bird. Bad idea, good point on your post. I wont be doing that again. People are CRAZY out there.

[ninja250]

People push me straight out of the carpool lane all the time on the 250 when I'm doing 70mph. They think because it's all the way on the left side of the road that it's the fast lane.
I threw the finger at the people after they pushed me out of the carpool in morning rush hour traffic doing 70mph last time (looked like a 30 year old husband/wife or couple) and they proceeded to keep on speeding by. The husband/passenger waved his arm outthe window motioning "bye bye" and then flipped me off in return. I was p.o.'d. Somehow I managed not to accelerate and rip their mirror off for almost killing me and turned off the freewy to calm myself.

It would appear that 70mph was too slow for their morning commute in the carpool lane while the rest if the freeway was doing 60mph so they straight up went around me, between me and the devider, half in my lane and mirror almost scraping the devider!!! I did nothing to provoke this at all until afterward when I flipped them off as stated above!
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[Flashmonkey]

LOL sounds like a drunk. I'm fairly liberal with my finger (that's what she said...), but you gotta be careful and anticipate having to make a break for it as people tend not to like that sort of language

The smart thing would be to just shrug it off and let it go....good luck with that one.

[Apex]

I don't give them the finger. If they are yelling at me, they are the one with the problem. I don't fly by them doing 50 over the limit like some I see. So if I know they are just being an a-hole, I smile really big (because they can see it in your eyes if you are smiling) and I wave at them. They don't get that "rage" thing, and most of the time they just drop it.

[kkim]

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=43678&

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=23547

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11696&

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10695

[Anteraan]

Originally Posted by RedNinja09

So, I was taking a nice nite ride home, taking the looooong way because it was such a NICE warm summer night. So, I am on a 4 lane road, 2 lanes going north and 2 going south. It is somewhat lit, a fair amount of traffic. I look up ahead and I see an ambulance on the other side of the road. A few cars pull over and I slow down but dont stop. It is dark and at the speed I was going it wasnt safe.

Ok, I've been driving for 25 years, and I simply don't get this part at all. You were going too fast to come to a safe stop? What does the dark have to do with it? Did you pass any of the stopped vehicles in the process? Clarify this for me, please.

Secondly, you SHOULD stop for emergency vehicles, assuming there is no median between you. Pull over, stop (when in the car I put my hazards on as well), and let them have the whole road. They're doing something far more important than you are at that point. That's how I look at it.

Was the guy an a-hole about it? No doubt, but it sounds like his message was on point. When on the motorcycle (or any of my road bikes), the last thing I want to do to someone in his mental state is inflame him more, even if he's wrong. Truck vs motorcycle or bicycle = lose for me. There's nothing to be gained at that point, sadly. The angry person isn't going to change their mind and see your side of things, especially when you present "the bird" as evidence. I typically note the vehicle type, color, and license plate # for future reference, however.

Watch out fellow riders, there are some real nutbags with anger problems on the road. Sheesh.

Red

Quite often, "road rage" is a result of someone else doing something stupid, careless, inconsiderate, dangerous, or potentially life-threatening. Think about it. Most of us have been very upset with "cagers" for doing something that fits the criteria above. Being on a motorcycle, however, we're not in a position to do anything about it. There is a certain degree of powerlessness that we have to accept when we climb onto our cycles.

Note: I am not referring to your situation at all, Red, because I don't know the whole story and I'm not passing any judgment here. In general, I get sick of seeing the term "road rage" when, most of the time, the incident was precipitated by someone else being an idiot. And then, there are some complete, certifiable nutcases out there. We can never let down our guard.

Most importantly, Red, I'm glad you're safe.

[izmail1215]

if i was on my zx6r (unregistered) i would have my tinted visor down and not be looking at him wile reving it to block out his voice that would piss the living sh*it out of him i do it when i ride crazy on the 250r

next time just ignore them look up or away its funny how more piss they get of looking like assholes

[CZroe]

On a four lane road without a median I would expect the oncoming traffic to move into the right lane and then be *ready* to pull over and stop but I certainly would not expect them to just do it, especially a motorcycle which still leaves most of the lane available.

[Greg_E]

Need a device to drop a penny on the rear wheel that will flip it at high speed into a tailgaiter's windshield, I'm still working on that one. Won't help with the ambulance, but it will for those getting pushed out of lanes. And no I have no problems destroying cars that are tailgaiting me, even if it causes them to crash.

For those that repeatedly get tailgaited to the extreme, I suggest a camera pointing back and send the video to the local police. Explain where and what your normal time is, and I bet there is a police car waiting to issue tickets in the near future. If not you can embarrass the idiot by sending the video to a local TV station so they can make a story about overly aggressive drivers and how much danger they represent. You could also make a youtube page for stupid drivers, that's on my things to do list.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by ninja250

People push me straight out of the carpool lane all the time on the 250 when I'm doing 70mph.

If this has happened more than once, why haven't you found a safer way to deal with it?

(Hint: when a faster vehicle comes up behind you in the fast lane and you have a chance to let them pass and then get right back behind them, just let them. Thinking you can keep an angry car behind you by force of will on a 300 lb bike going much slower than they'd like to verges on suicidal. Having the moral high ground doesn't matter quite as much as ensuring your own safety.)

[addy126]

Originally Posted by izmail1215

if i was on my zx6r (unregistered) i would have my tinted visor down and not be looking at him wile reving it to block out his voice that would piss the living sh*it out of him i do it when i ride crazy on the 250r

next time just ignore them look up or away its funny how more piss they get of looking like assholes

Sam.. I use this method more than not. It's tried and true and I love watchin them get beside themselves in total exasperation .. lol ... if that doesn't work its time to pull out the Walther "9".....

[Anteraan]

Maybe it was this guy:

http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/i..._sirens_f.html

State laws vary, but MI law explicitly requires a pull-over and stop (see sidebar), while it appears that IL law does not. Quote from http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/pu...l#construction

"When being approached by an emergency vehicle using audible and visual signals, Illinois law requires motorists to immediately pull to the right side of the road and allow the emergency vehicle to pass. In some cases a complete stop may be necessary to allow the emergency vehicle to pass."

So, it sounds like Chris did fulfill his legal obligation in the state of IL, and obviously his actions allowed for safe passage for the ambulance (this was never in doubt). It makes me wonder if the truck dude was either from out of state, or had lived out of state for some time (perhaps learning to drive there, and not in IL). Next time, Chris can explain to the fine gentleman in the truck that state law does not require him to stop, only pulll over, haha.

[RedNinja09]

Well thank you Anteraan, yes as far as I believe in IL, you are NOT required to pull over unless the emergency vechicle is passing on YOUR side of the street. The ambulance was coming down the opposite side of the street towards me. I was not going too fast or out of control. It was a dark street full of cars. I didnt want to stop and get smooshed cause someone didnt see me. I slowed, but didnt pull over. I mean the thing passed in about 5 seconds, literally. Maybe it was a fire truck, I dont even know, it happened that fast.

That guy was a douchebag that needed to mind his own business AND keep his car out of my lane. My not stopping didnt stop the ambulance from passing in ANY way. Have another beer asswipe.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Alex

Having the moral high ground doesn't matter quite as much as ensuring your own safety

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Alex

If this has happened more than once, why haven't you found a safer way to deal with it?

(Hint: when a faster vehicle comes up behind you in the fast lane and you have a chance to let them pass and then get right back behind them, just let them. Thinking you can keep an angry car behind you by force of will on a 300 lb bike going much slower than they'd like to verges on suicidal. Having the moral high ground doesn't matter quite as much as ensuring your own safety.)

I didn't take you for one of those guys who completely ignore the markings telling you when you could and couldn't enter/exit the carpool lane, Alex.

[Alex]

LA is one of the only places in the US that has those markings, CZ. Almost everywhere else, riders & drivers can get out of the way of a crazed tailgater just by, well, getting out of the way. If I was blocked in by barriers on both sides as well, it would be a pulse-quickening experience, I'm sure.

But if it's only markings on the road and we're choosing between an (unlikely) ticket and a SUV enema, I'll get myself out of the way every time. I read over and over again on this board and others about how people are annoyed with how others drive around them on the road (too fast, too slow, too close, not close enough). All of those observations are spot-on, and likely completely correct from the point of view of the rider. But what seems to take awhile to sink in is that none of that matters. We can't affect the actions of others on the road. No matter how we behave, how we ride, how we want to, other people on the road are going to continue to behave in ways that we don't want, right up until the end of our days. Once we realize that, it becomes that much easier to choose the path of most expediency. What keeps me the safest, what minimizes the risk, what de-escalates the situation, etc.

Tailgater that doesn't back down with a gentle wave? Get out of the way. Why chance anything else?

[mikedabike64]

just keep riding man dont let it get to ya, just smile and wave like ya`dont know what there sayin a future hooligan your not but your 250 still can be.

[Sailariel]

Having done 80,000 nautical miles in a sailboat, I know the Rules of the Road----Sail has right of way over Power. My rule is--If it is bigger than I am, I give way. I have seen "Yachties" playing right of way games with ships. REAL DUMB!!! I apply the same rule to cagers. I have no plans of being "Dead Right"

[capt_bugaloo]

This topic got me thinking. I know that the laws vary from place to place: in some places you are to pull over and give the vehicle space, but continue to proceed at a slow pace, while other places you are to stop.

I looked online to check for my local area. From British Columbia Motor Vehicle Act Section 177:

“On the immediate approach of an emergency vehicle giving an audible signal by a bell, siren or exhaust whistle, and showing a visible flashing red light, except when otherwise directed by a peace officer, a driver just yield the right of way, and immediately drive to a position parallel to and as close as possible to the nearest edge or curb of the roadway, clear of an intersection, and stop and remain in that position until the emergency vehicle has passed.”

So the OP, if riding in BC, should have pulled over and stopped. YMMV.

Was the truck driver behaving in a crazy fashion? Sure.

[ninja250]

Originally Posted by Alex

If this has happened more than once, why haven't you found a safer way to deal with it?

Because by law I am required to wait until the next carpool lane opening so I can exit the carpool lane, get in slower traffic and disrupt MY driving and let them pass me. Between the time it takes to get to the next carpool lane, I have another inconsiderate LA driver right on me again. Also by law, I'm already speeding doing 70 trying not to get killed..

Happens on the 600 too. Despite what most of you may think I use blinkers when I change lanes and mostly obey or stay very near the speed limit when I am not going nuts on a twisty.

They flash huge "Yield the right of way to motorcycle" signs all over our freeways yet I get run out of the carpool lane when traffic outside of it is slower. Sorry it upsets me. Did I rant about it?

Did we miss the part where I pulled over and cooled off instead of ripping off mirrors and making you "sportbikers" look bad?

[TrueFaith]

What a wacky thread. There's a reason you're supposed to pull over and stop for emergency vehicles. That's why there are laws mandating it. They are not "open to interpretation".
The idea is to ride in a manner that you never have to direct rude gestures at other drivers. If you get into a situation like that, an upraised finger is a poor defense against a one ton motor vehicle or the loony behind the wheel with a gun who might take exception to your sign language.
You basically created a bad situation and then just made it worse.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by ninja250

Also by law, I'm already speeding doing 70 trying not to get killed....

...Despite what most of you may think I use blinkers when I change lanes and mostly obey or stay very near the speed limit when I am not going nuts on a twisty...

KC - it's not about right and wrong. Nobody is calling you wrong and the other drivers right. It shouldn't be how it is. But it is. If riding 70 mph (indicated) in the carpool lane puts you in such a dangerous spot enough times, I think I'd either choose to go faster, to not use the carpool lane, or to ultimately find a different time or method to commute, right?

Frankly, I'm not terribly concerned about speed limits as my top worry or concern on the highway. #1 concern (and #'s 2 through 5) are giving myself as many outs as possible no matter what is happening around me right now, and what has a chance of happening in the near future. One thing I've found is that it's almost always safer to go with the flow of traffic or even a smidge faster, as compared to going slower than the flow of traffic. It's much easier to see and deal with what you are approaching rather than what's coming from behind in those tiny mirrors that we (and most bikes) tend to have. If the carpool lane means 80 mph, then I ride 80 mph. If I don't want to ride at the flow of traffic, I need to find another lane, and perhaps a whole other route to put myself somewhere where I do feel comfortable.

BTW - I don't think you ranted, I think your responses here are fine, and I certainly don't want to seem like I'm arguing with you. I just know that there are things that we can all learn that will make these confrontations on the road that much less likely, and I know it took me awhile to sink in.

Originally Posted by TrueFaith

The idea is to ride in a manner that you never have to direct rude gestures at other drivers. If you get into a situation like that, an upraised finger is a poor defense against a one ton motor vehicle or the loony behind the wheel with a gun who might take exception to your sign language.

[sofo]

I agree that you should have stopped, if you were unable to safely stop I'm curious to know why. That said, the guy was out of line and you are justified in feeling threatened.

I'd suggest you don't flip the bird from now on for two reasons:

1) You never know what someone else on the road is hopped-up on and packing.
2) It gives us all a bad name.

I've been tempted more than a few times and know the anger that comes from almost being killed, but lowering yourself proves nothing and doesn't get the message across.

If only whuffie was real.

[sofo]

Originally Posted by Sailariel

Having done 80,000 nautical miles in a sailboat, I know the Rules of the Road----Sail has right of way over Power. My rule is--If it is bigger than I am, I give way. I have seen "Yachties" playing right of way games with ships. REAL DUMB!!! I apply the same rule to cagers. I have no plans of being "Dead Right"

Very well-put sir. If only Sportisi offered 16" guns that were mountable on our bikes for "shock-and-awe" warning shots across the bow (hood) of Toyota Corollas.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Alex

LA is one of the only places in the US that has those markings, CZ. Almost everywhere else, riders & drivers can get out of the way of a crazed tailgater just by, well, getting out of the way. If I was blocked in by barriers on both sides as well, it would be a pulse-quickening experience, I'm sure.

But if it's only markings on the road and we're choosing between an (unlikely) ticket and a SUV enema, I'll get myself out of the way every time. I read over and over again on this board and others about how people are annoyed with how others drive around them on the road (too fast, too slow, too close, not close enough). All of those observations are spot-on, and likely completely correct from the point of view of the rider. But what seems to take awhile to sink in is that none of that matters. We can't affect the actions of others on the road. No matter how we behave, how we ride, how we want to, other people on the road are going to continue to behave in ways that we don't want, right up until the end of our days. Once we realize that, it becomes that much easier to choose the path of most expediency. What keeps me the safest, what minimizes the risk, what de-escalates the situation, etc.

Tailgater that doesn't back down with a gentle wave? Get out of the way. Why chance anything else?

Yep. Very true, except for the "mostly just L.A." part. My experience is mostly with San Diego and Atlanta where it can be more than a mile between exits (ATL has signs telling carpoolers the distance to the next CP lane exit).

In San Diego I have never been able to use the ones going North on the I-15 because it is also a branched paid express-lane that runs for 8-miles... right past my typical destination (home)!

[Alex]

Yeah, but in ATL even the carpool lane is crawling along at 32 mph.

[Hadyn]

Wait, you have to stop for ambulances coming the opposite direction? On a 4-lane road? That seems weird to me.

[RedNinja09]

Hayden, not in IL. You do NOT have to stop. Some people think you do, but offically in IL.... you do not. I dont know about other states.

[sofo]

I'm Canadian, we stop so we aren't in the way. One less moving object for emergency vehicles to worry about.

[capt_bugaloo]

As stated early in the thread, the laws vary from state to state. You need to check in your area to see whether or not you are required by law to stop.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by Alex

LA is one of the only places in the US that has those markings, CZ. Almost everywhere else, riders & drivers can get out of the way of a crazed tailgater just by, well, getting out of the way. If I was blocked in by barriers on both sides as well, it would be a pulse-quickening experience, I'm sure.

But if it's only markings on the road and we're choosing between an (unlikely) ticket and a SUV enema, I'll get myself out of the way every time. I read over and over again on this board and others about how people are annoyed with how others drive around them on the road (too fast, too slow, too close, not close enough). All of those observations are spot-on, and likely completely correct from the point of view of the rider. But what seems to take awhile to sink in is that none of that matters. We can't affect the actions of others on the road. No matter how we behave, how we ride, how we want to, other people on the road are going to continue to behave in ways that we don't want, right up until the end of our days. Once we realize that, it becomes that much easier to choose the path of most expediency. What keeps me the safest, what minimizes the risk, what de-escalates the situation, etc.

Tailgater that doesn't back down with a gentle wave? Get out of the way. Why chance anything else?

Here in the Dallas/Fort Worth area our HOV lanes also have markings preventing legal lane changes except in designated areas, and some actually have a physical barrier. My government professor, a former lawyer, said that crossing those markings will earn you a ticket, even if the reason you cross them is because a police officer is pulling you over or if you're getting out of the way of an emergency vehicle. She defended several tickets like that, unsuccessfully.

[bikeguy57]

After 26 years in the Fire/Rescue biz, I was happy if the people in MY lane pulled over!! People in big cities are clueless!

[Apex]

Around here, we give the vehicle a path. If they have an open lane, especially on a 4 lane road, then we just move over and slow, we don't stop (not all the time). The only time I stop is if I am at an intersection, or near a driveway. I let the vehicle know they have the right of way over me.

[Sailariel]

Originally Posted by sofo

Very well-put sir. If only Sportisi offered 16" guns that were mountable on our bikes for "shock-and-awe" warning shots across the bow (hood) of Toyota Corollas.

I have these fantasies (periodically) of having a BSA like the one in "Thunderball" and vicariously rocketing cagers---maybe in motorcyclist's heaven--if I ever get there. In the meantime, "Illegitimi non carborundum"

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by Sailariel

I have these fantasies (periodically) of having a BSA like the one in "Thunderball" and vicariously rocketing cagers---maybe in motorcyclist's heaven--if I ever get there. In the meantime, "Illegitimi non carborundum"

Alex, I attended a British bike show in Mass sunday. Lots of old BSA and Triumph, a handful of Norton and Matchless, one Vincent and Ariel. Didnt see any Velocette. I think a bigger show is next week. Great looking Rocket 3, 850 Commando, and Matchless race bike.

[sofo]

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

Alex, I attended a British bike show in Mass sunday. Lots of old BSA and Triumph, a handful of Norton and Matchless, one Vincent and Ariel. Didnt see any Velocette. I think a bigger show is next week. Great looking Rocket 3, 850 Commando, and Matchless race bike.

Beautiful bikes. There is an active Vincent group here in B.C. and if I ever get to one of their meet-ups I will likely have to be restrained in the presence of a Black Shadow.

[pedaltothemetal]

Any car that gets too close for comfort get the hell away by any means cause it's your life!
If you are in the fast lane keep your eye on the rear mirror cause some impatient driver behind will tailgate instead of passing on the right. Way to get a better rear view is to ride to the right of the lane. If you do want to confront the driver just ride next to them. But no finger just pace them for a few seconds. Lets them know what they did was dangerous! Well if they look like you were invisible then doesn't matter!

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by sofo

Beautiful bikes. There is an active Vincent group here in B.C. and if I ever get to one of their meet-ups I will likely have to be restrained in the presence of a Black Shadow.

One of the guys I rode up with has a Vincent Rapide (and numerous BSA and Triumphs, a mint Matchless, and a Velocette). Due to the distance though he didn't ride any to the meet. Hope I haven't hijacked this thread!!