Serious Lean Angle

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by cadd

The reason I ask is because I ride pretty conservatively and never dragged anything.

It's just that, in the future, if I'm ever in a situation where I went in a corner too hot (street) and the feelers dragged, I'll know I can keep that lean angle to complete the turn.

So....my 2nd question: if the feelers do touch down while I'm mid corner, do I hold the throttle position the way it is? Or should I roll off gently? What can I do with the throttle to either maintain my line (or better yet....tighten my line)?

Great question... and in the original spirit of this thread.

1st off: You shouldn't be dragging stuff in the first place. A proactive review of your riding every now and then should reveal a potential problem before it happens. And yes, I know emergencies can change this, when you need to lean.... by all means... lean it. Never give up until the bike does!

2nd: Your default reaction to most corner issues should be to continue the throttle roll. UNLESS.... you get into real nasty stuff or real trouble. Then... as I have done many times... (as a couple of ninjette members have witnessed...) Stand that bike up and use every inch of pavement you have to brake as hard as you can in a controlled way. The simple reality is... if your gunna hit something anyway, why not hit it at 25mph vs. 50mph. Just before you get to the edge of the pavement, you are at the moment of truth, can you turn the bike again? If so, then flick that sucker in hard and do it without hesitation.

Now there is an exception to my answer to #2. The hook turn is a "track oriented" technique that pays dividends on the street when you find yourself in a "situation". Honestly... you aint got much time to figger out what to do, but whatever you do, do it with conviction and purpose. A timely executed hook turn can save many turn in point and bad line issues. The main reason you hook it is, to not violate throttle control rule number 1 and yet still be able to tighten you line mid corner.

If you feel you need to widen your line... countersteer the bike up, roll off (do not chop it!!!), avoid your issue, repoint the bike (resteer) and get back to the throttle ASAP!

Lastly... pray you never need to do any of the things listed above.

[alex.s]

i believe i would rather try to go for the turn and lowside on pavement and deal with a 6 inch drop and slide than i would straight line it off road on the brakes, instantly lose traction and hit a tree or guard rail or something

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i believe i would rather try to go for the turn and lowside on pavement and deal with a 6 inch drop and slide than i would straight line it off road on the brakes, instantly lose traction and hit a tree or guard rail or something

Id go that far in the second attempt but I'll let myself correct and brake before I let myself run the risk of lowsiding

[alex.s]

i always trail in so it's usually not an issue to just trail it further in, but when you've already gone down all the way and that blind decreasing radius turn gets tighter up ahead and you need to make some buffer in order to pull up and do some extra hard braking again... sometimes you just run out of room from the retry and you just have to go for it. you know you'll scrape it up but i'd rather go back down and go for it rather than just hope for the slowest impact on the side.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i believe i would rather try to go for the turn and lowside on pavement and deal with a 6 inch drop and slide than i would straight line it off road on the brakes, instantly lose traction and hit a tree or guard rail or something

Well... at some point in that mix (moment of truth) you gotta make a choice. To low or high side or something else. If you're looking at an open field, the riding it out may be a better choice, if you're looking at a cliff, getting off asap may be in order.

Either way... good braking braking has the possibility of slowing down faster than a body sliding on pavement. I see what your getting at though. If the rider isn't good on the brakes you're hitting the tree faster than sliding into it. That is a call I can't make though, the rider must make it.

Then there is the human part of things, when at the end of the day the rider asks "why" and what could I have done differently. When I go to bike night, I hear "I just leaned and prayed" most often. We both known each other Alex, you know I am not a fan of "just praying". But then again... I also know, that many riders are not even close to the limits at that moment of truth when they believe they are going down. It's a tough call to make, and even harder when asked the question on an internet forum. :\

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i always trail in so it's usually not an issue to just trail it further in, but when you've already gone down all the way and that blind decreasing radius turn gets tighter up ahead and you need to make some buffer in order to pull up and do some extra hard braking again... sometimes you just run out of room from the retry and you just have to go for it. you know you'll scrape it up but i'd rather go back down and go for it rather than just hope for the slowest impact on the side.

Yea, we are saying the same thing, just using different words. When your out of room and out of time... How do you wanna hit said obstacle? The only part that is somewhat different between what we are posting, is... once you have made a choice of what to do, then do it, weather it be on the gas or on the brake.

Also, when you run outta pavement (tire hits dirt) the game totally changes. I am not really throwing that into the mix as the choice to give up or leave it up to luck has already been made at that point. Ya know... only somewhat relevant to the current question asked by cadd.

[alex.s]

for sure.

and yeah running off the track is totes different from on the street. i don't even know how many times i've run off the track. those little ninjas offroad pretty well when you got the room. worst ive done was blowing turn 5 at chucky on the 600 and hitting the burm... somehow didn't go down... got back on track at the pit in and nursed my balls back to life

[alex.s]

here i was playing with the video editor and got carried away.

Link to original page on YouTube.

p.s. watch the movie tinker tailor soldier spy on netflix, great flick

[cadd]

2 question for you track guys (and girls):
1- Is it necessary to get your knee down on the track (250/300 specific)? Would a knee down always = faster speeds?

2 - When the feelers on the pegs touch down....at that lean angle....with proper body positioning, would one be able to get his/her knee down?

I'm just trying to get a mental image of how leaned over you have to be to get the peg feelers down.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by cadd

2 question for you track guys (and girls):
1- Is it necessary to get your knee down on the track (250/300 specific)? Would a knee down always = faster speeds?

NO

2 - When the feelers on the pegs touch down....at that lean angle....with proper body positioning, would one be able to get his/her knee down?

Yes

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by cadd

2 question for you track guys (and girls):
1- Is it necessary to get your knee down on the track (250/300 specific)? Would a knee down always = faster speeds?

2 - When the feelers on the pegs touch down....at that lean angle....with proper body positioning, would one be able to get his/her knee down?

I'm just trying to get a mental image of how leaned over you have to be to get the peg feelers down.

1. Not at all, though you will find that you enjoy the sensation
knee down does not always mean faster, in fact I have passed several riders who were knee down mid corner without my knee down simply because I apexed later and was able to power out sooner and had more drive out of the exit while they were still leaned over. As a rule of thumb though, if someone is taking a good line and has their knee down they're probably flying.

2. If your bp is right you'll drag knee before feeler or peg. Personally I believe the absolute limit of lean to be when you are dragging your knee, elbow, and your peg at the same time. To reach that level of lean requires an insane amount of commitment to yourself and practicing your riding skills at the track. The feelers will touch down pretty quick but won't be an issue. Personally I remove mine since I use my knee as my feeler at the track and I don't ride hard enough on the street for it to matter.

If you want to know how far leaned over you need to be to get the pegs down just tip your bike over

seriously though, sport bikes (ninjette included) have crazy ground clearance and you're more likely to hit your own mental limit than to hit the bike's limit of lean until you're very comfortable with the bike.

Also, scraping pegs is and isn't a big deal. It isn't going to put you down right away if you're just skimming them but if you're touching your pegs to the ground while riding at all you need to be on a track for your own safety.


edit: beaten to it by @csmith12 guess it pays to not be so long winded

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by cadd

2 question for you track guys (and girls):
1- Is it necessary to get your knee down on the track (250/300 specific)? Would a knee down always = faster speeds?

2 - When the feelers on the pegs touch down....at that lean angle....with proper body positioning, would one be able to get his/her knee down?

I'm just trying to get a mental image of how leaned over you have to be to get the peg feelers down.

1, knee out does nothing for the bike. its all for the rider feeling. knee out means air drag. it actually slows you down.

2, with proper body positioning, you would be dragging all kinds of body parts long before you touched any hard parts.

you gotta be over pretty damn far to be touching your pegs... with good body position, you'll be sliding around from so much lean before you would be touching things... so with good body position you almost never worry about it unless you're really givin it what for.

[kalleh]

Originally Posted by alex.s

1, knee out does nothing for the bike. its all for the rider feeling. knee out means air drag. it actually slows you down.

Exactly this! In fact, depending on your riding style, your knee will touch sooner the worse your body positioning is - bad body pos means you will need more lean given a certain speed to go around a corner.

Originally Posted by alex.s

2, with proper body positioning, you would be dragging all kinds of body parts long before you touched any hard parts.

you gotta be over pretty damn far to be touching your pegs... with good body position, you'll be sliding around from so much lean before you would be touching things... so with good body position you almost never worry about it unless you're really givin it what for.

This is dependent on rear suspension setup. With rear preload too soft it's easy to drag pegs in pretty much any high speed corner.

[alex.s]

i guess i'm also used to my stupid race rearsets and ground down shorty pegs

[kalleh]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i guess i'm also used to my stupid race rearsets and ground down shorty pegs

I have stock Woodcraft rearsets in the top-rear position and once I get excited there can be quite a lot of peg-dragging action That said, when the excitement gets high my body pos might suffer a little bit too... I'll also notice pretty quickly if I position my foot too far down on the edge of the peg - since switching to a 300 on the track I get the full money's worth out of my replaceable toe sliders

[WesleySnipes]

[alex.s]

we call them literbike elbows

[WesleySnipes]

What is that haha?

[alex.s]

[WesleySnipes]

ohh haha. Should I changed it up?

[alex.s]

haha na man i'm just teasin

[WesleySnipes]

Oh well fine then.

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by cadd

2 question for you track guys (and girls):
1- Is it necessary to get your knee down on the track (250/300 specific)? Would a knee down always = faster speeds?

2 - When the feelers on the pegs touch down....at that lean angle....with proper body positioning, would one be able to get his/her knee down?

I'm just trying to get a mental image of how leaned over you have to be to get the peg feelers down.

1. Knee down is just a gauge to feel where the pavement is and assess how much more you can lean the bike.

2. When i had stock pegs, i removed the feelers and from cornering the pegs were ground to the rubber. so yes.

[Braden07]

the first and only time i have hit peg i low sided at the track ha.. a combination of things.. this is a crappy pic but shows a decent lean angle.. couldve had my knee closer in. After riding more and gaining more track experience you see all these crazy BPs that you have to wonder if they are hindering or helping but all that matters is your position when the checkered drops in the end i guess.. I have felt that my bp is decent but i use my knee like a crutch and sometimes im mid corner and think to myself "i need to pull my knee in to get more lean and carry more speed" or that it is taking me off my line but not allowing more turn in so i pull it up and in and it works well. When i was down at chuckwalla one of their super fast dudes rides way tight to the bike even at full tilt so his knee isnt out or down as much as i would have thought it was but he romps like crazy..

[Misti]

Just thought I would post my new favourite photo from this past weekend mini racing. This is on the Kayo 125 mini GP bike So much fun!!

[Alex]

That pic is great. I'm thinking, damn that GoPro camera is huge. Before I realize that the rider isn't huge, and the bike is actually tiny. The very slick proportions on that bike don't give away its size without a reference.

[choneofakind]

I like that suit pattern.

The picture looks like when people photoshop their track pictures to make their head the proportion of a bobble head.

[cvrle1]

Originally Posted by Misti

Just thought I would post my new favourite photo from this past weekend mini racing. This is on the Kayo 125 mini GP bike So much fun!!

GMR

Did some corner marshaling last season there. Would love to try riding there as well.

[csmith12]

Welcome Marko!

[Misti]

Originally Posted by Alex

That pic is great. I'm thinking, damn that GoPro camera is huge. Before I realize that the rider isn't huge, and the bike is actually tiny. The very slick proportions on that bike don't give away its size without a reference.

Hahaha, true! It's hard to tell that it's a tiny bike!

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I like that suit pattern.

The picture looks like when people photoshop their track pictures to make their head the proportion of a bobble head.

Thanks The suit was my old Kawasaki AMA racing suit that was changed to read Kayo now that I'm riding the Kayo for SVRACINGPARTS.COM lol!

Looks pretty good!

Originally Posted by cvrle1

GMR

Did some corner marshaling last season there. Would love to try riding there as well.

Yes, GMR! You should come ride!! Or at least come watch the next race and say hi! June 21st!

[sharky nrk]

Found a pic of you while pursing OMRL facetubes lol

[ithaca00]

Here's a screen capture from my last race weekend. I rotated the image to make the horizon closer to flat.

[kalleh]

Originally Posted by ithaca00

Here's a screen capture from my last race weekend. I rotated the image to make the horizon closer to flat.

And here's me in the very same corner, same race weekend

Edit: Ah, that is T3, this is T5b...



Photo by 4theriders/Joe Salas

[ithaca00]

Looking good through there!

["A"]

One of my fav winter activity:



Back in 2003, I visited Moab, UT with my dirtbike:

[Misti]

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

Found a pic of you while pursing OMRL facetubes lol

I had just made a sweet sweet pass Can't wait for the next race weekend!!!

Did you see that my kid (just turned 6) did his first race that same weekend. He's kinda addicted.

[Misti]

Ok, had to share this photo of my son's (just turned 6) second race! He's proving to be a natural

[csmith12]

Nice!!! Hoping to get my son on the track this season. Like you, imma put him on the kart track first.

Nice!!!! Time to raise those pegs and love to see the kids puttin' in werk! They are the future.

[BoBO]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Liked! I'm jealous of these young guys getting into racing so early. I won't be able to until after college.

It's like skiers; the younger people start, the more fearless they are.

+1 same here I have a year to go with school.

[AwDang]

hard to hang off at 4'10"