Adaptive Lighting - Opinions

[keeblerkhan]

I know nobody on this board likes to share their opinions, but I'll ask anyway....

I'm working on a project as part of my MS in Auto Engineering, and I am trying to gauge interest in an aftermarket adaptive auxiliary light that you could mount to your motorcycle. It would be fairly small; no more than 2" in diameter and maybe 3" in length (something along the lines of a high end bicycle light). By adaptive, I mean, the light pattern changes to reflect in the direction you are going to (unlike the standard variety headlight that only points where you are pointed). Adaptive headlights help eliminate what I like to call "the black wall of death" by shining the light into the curves so that you can see what's in the road before you get there. Anybody who has ridden twisty stuff in the dark will know exactly what I'm talking about. The light would be pretty bright...bright enough to give your halogen lamps a run for their money.

So, what do the good people of Ninjette.org think about a product like this? Do you think it would be helpful? Waste of money? Who rides twisty stuff at night, anyway? Would you buy one for $100? etc. etc.

As a sort of frame of reference, here's a link to what the prototype could look like. -->http://store.dinottelighting.com/din...ight-p174.aspx


I am trying to collect some market data on this project. Please fill out this very short 8 question survey here --> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/JJ8SD7H

[alex.s]

i would love it if it worked.


but... how would it work? it would need to rotate along the roll as well as pitch so when you are leaned over it can pitch up... if you made simply a very wide angle (i'm thinking like 150d or more) lcd projector that projected the correct image (white block, rotated and skewed by software based on gyro input)

if it could put out good lumens and was less than $250 i'd use it.

[moonwalker]

Originally Posted by keeblerkhan

Who rides twisty stuff at night, anyway?

I do, almost every weekend going home after hanging out with friends, if no drinking was involved. The road home is plenty rural and twisty, something like that kind of adaptive light would really help me spot those deers behind the next bend.

Originally Posted by keeblerkhan

Would you buy one for $100?

If it's reliable and does exactly what it's supposed to do - sure.

[xSean13]

Projectors shoot out pretty wide, right?

[keeblerkhan]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i would love it if it worked.


but... how would it work? it would need to rotate along the roll as well as pitch so when you are leaned over it can pitch up... if you made simply a very wide angle (i'm thinking like 150d or more) lcd projector that projected the correct image (white block, rotated and skewed by software based on gyro input)

if it could put out good lumens and was less than $250 i'd use it.

You are right, in that it would need to do what I'm calling "auto leveling". However, right now with the design that's in my head, I think I can accomplish a good level light pattern without moving parts. If I can't do the no moving parts thing, I think I can just use a very bright light source and a mirror.

[Alex]

I had it on my BMW K16, and it worked quite well. Hope to have a it again on some of my future bikes.

[cuong-nutz]

Sounds good. Not sure about how you would a me to keep it that small though. Either way I would be interested.

[keeblerkhan]

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

Sounds good. Not sure about how you would a me to keep it that small though. Either way I would be interested.

I agree, it may be a bit ambitious, but that's the size target I'm shooting for while I'm trying to work out how the light will have to work. We'll see if it is possible!

[caineroad]

How would it exactly work? In cars, the steering wheel does the control of the adaptive lighting, on a bike is a bit difficult right?

[moonwalker]

Originally Posted by caineroad

How would it exactly work? In cars, the steering wheel does the control of the adaptive lighting, on a bike is a bit difficult right?

Accelerometer. With some semi-smart programming you could probably figure out motorcycle's lean angle without too much trouble.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by moonwalker

Accelerometer. With some semi-smart programming you could probably figure out motorcycle's lean angle without too much trouble.

its really ****** to use only a 2 axis accelerometer. you basically detect the gravity vector by averaging the values of the N-axis accelerometer over the past X frames (a few seconds worth to average over bumps). but you still have acceleration forces throwing the down vector off. integrating rotation forces from a gyro helps quite a lot. like order of magnitude more accurate.

please also put a camera on this head light so we can have a gyrocamlight

[keeblerkhan]

Folks,
Thanks for the feedback in my other thread to kick off an engineering project for school. The concept has made it a bit further, and we think we've got a pretty slick way to make a compact light that will light up the curvy bits where the stock headlight fails miserably. But...we need to see if this product is even marketable, so I've put together a really quick 8 question survey to get a little market feedback. If y'all would be so kind as to fill it out, I'd be grateful. If you're feeling especially benevolent, you can get your non ninjette.org riding buddies to fill it out also.

You can click here to fill out the survey ---> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/JJ8SD7H

I'm also open to any other suggestions/opinions y'all have on such a product.

[IF13]

Done.

Now where's my complimentary, beta mode adaptive lighting fixture? :P

[Snake]

Quick and east survey. Great product idea.

[cuong-nutz]

done

[corksil]

I took it as well.

"List any other features or specifications you would like to see on this adaptive lighting product."

Time travel
Teleportation
Invisibility cloak
Ability to cook eggs without human involvement

[headshrink]

I just read through your first post; missed it the first time. This is a really great idea. To be honest it's more so the tech that turns me on more than the practicality.

The easiest low-tech solution is to use aux or driving lights with wide beams, but the only problem I still run into is not getting enough light when in an aggressive lean on a freeway on-ramp/cloverleaf. It helps somewhat when I flip on my high beam for a moment in the lean, but an auto-leveler would REALLY be the cat's meow. I think this would actually be the MOST useful function. I would certainly consider purchasing it, assuming the leveling mechanism was housed internally.

As far as controlling the lights movement into corners, you could also use a head-tracker. I've never used one, but have seen them for video gaming (IR tracker worn on helmet).

Perhaps on "Deluxe" versions you could have different modes: Passive (auto-leveling only), Corner-Tracking, Head-Tracking, and Full-Auto Tracking (corner & head).

I see your account is new, and purhaps only for your school project. If you don't keep us updated, we will be terribly disappointed.

[caineroad]

If you dont develop this, eventually BMW or some manufacturer will develop it. I think is really a necessary feature for safety of the rider. I also like ABS and traction control, I think it should be standard like in cars.

[outasight20]

Originally Posted by xSean13

Projectors shoot out pretty wide, right?

I recently installed projectors on my bike and while the light output is incredible on high beam, the low beam leaves much to be desired when riding through bends. Because of the sharp cutoff line, when you lean the bike over in a turn there is a huge black spot exactly where you want to be looking.

I was also considering doing some sort of project like this for my Capstone next year. It would be a single projector with both vertical and axial adjustment. When you accelerate hard, the beam would move down to avoid blinding oncoming traffic. When you brake, the beam would move up to maintain maximum visibility down-road.

The big issue I see in designing a system like this is the lack of lateral g forces on a motorcycle while turning. The axial servo would need a method of determining the angle of the bike to the ground, but would not be able to rely on an accelerometer. A gyro would be the only way to accomplish this. It would have to be 'zeroed' when the bike is vertical and then would effectively keep the projector level with the road as the bike leans over.

If I follow through with this project I will be sure to keep the forum updated.

[caineroad]

Originally Posted by outasight20

I recently installed projectors on my bike and while the light output is incredible on high beam, the low beam leaves much to be desired when riding through bends. Because of the sharp cutoff line, when you lean the bike over in a turn there is a huge black spot exactly where you want to be looking.

I was also considering doing some sort of project like this for my Capstone next year. It would be a single projector with both vertical and axial adjustment. When you accelerate hard, the beam would move down to avoid blinding oncoming traffic. When you brake, the beam would move up to maintain maximum visibility down-road.

The big issue I see in designing a system like this is the lack of lateral g forces on a motorcycle while turning. The axial servo would need a method of determining the angle of the bike to the ground, but would not be able to rely on an accelerometer. A gyro would be the only way to accomplish this. It would have to be 'zeroed' when the bike is vertical and then would effectively keep the projector level with the road as the bike leans over.

If I follow through with this project I will be sure to keep the forum updated.

Sounds really good! Hardware wise this is the best approach, we will need excellent software also! Please make both best of the best

[keeblerkhan]

Thanks for the feedback everybody. I'm bumping this to the top to try and get some more feedback on the survey.

The project is progressing well, and we're getting ready to prototype and see if our software does what it is supposed to.

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by caineroad

If you dont develop this, eventually BMW or some manufacturer will develop it. I think is really a necessary feature for safety of the rider. I also like ABS and traction control, I think it should be standard like in cars.

BMW already has it. Don't think anyone has come up with an aftermarket option though.

http://youtu.be/7vNESfn3nYw

[IF13]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

BMW already has it. Don't think anyone has come up with an aftermarket option though.

http://youtu.be/7vNESfn3nYw

Dreams ruined :/

[cuong-nutz]

Yep only BMW. they have been employing it on their autos and recently on their bikes.