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Old December 22nd, 2017, 07:12 PM   #1
Ace
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Spark issue?

My 02 ninja 250 started dying while riding and then will no start till tje following day. Clean carbs not flooding or smell gas. When it dies its like tje kill switch was pressed, it doesnt start acting up or boging just dies randomly. Next day first cranks itl start and rev great. Il leave it idling and sometimes just dies and wont start or il turn it off after warmed up then try to start amd nothing. Pulled the coil boots and stuck a screw driver in it while i cranked and put it against a metal bolt on the block, no spark. Next morning i did the same and had spark. Is this a cdi issue??? Any info is greatly appreciated!
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 08:09 PM   #2
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Just to eliminate it as a possible problem, what is the battery voltage when it's running and not running?
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 08:59 AM   #3
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Just to eliminate it as a possible problem, what is the battery voltage when it's running and not running?
I will get a voltmeter tonight after work. What voltage should i be seeing? Thanks for the reply.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 09:23 AM   #4
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Ideally you'd see about 12.5 if it hasn't been running for a while, and something in the 14 range with it running and the engine revved a bit.

One explanation for your symptoms is a charging system problem, and when the battery voltage gets too low, the ignition system quits. Then letting it sit for a while lets the battery recover a little and it starts and runs for a while. I know when I had a failing battery in mine, once cranking got slowish, I had to push it to start it.

These bikes don't have CDI by the way, they're electronic ignition systems that switch coil primary current, but not Capacitor Discharge Ignition systems.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 11:29 AM   #5
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Yes, traditionally known as inductive ignition. Used a lot on autos too. Even most COP- coil-on-plug style ignition uses inductive coils rather than CDI. May not provide as high peak-voltage as CDI, but supplies a longer duration spark with more total energy for complete combustion of mixture.

Measure voltage of battery as it runs and dies. Note voltage at moment it dies.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; December 23rd, 2017 at 05:05 PM.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 04:50 PM   #6
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Yes, traditionally known as inductive ignition. Used a lot on autos too. Even most COP- coil-on-plug style ignition uses inductive coils rather than CDI. Many not provide as high peak-voltage as CDI, but supplies a longer duration spark with more total energy for complete combustion of mixture.

Measure voltage of battery as it runs and dies. Note voltage at moment it dies.
It doesnt always die tho, what if the bike stays on til operating temp? If i leave it on just idling for a long time it will eventually start to hear up so u think my fan isnt working well only when it wants. Didnt really car bout it since the air cools the engine down pretty quicj when riding. Il let yal know later tonight wat my voltage is running. Again thanks for the help.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 04:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
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Ideally you'd see about 12.5 if it hasn't been running for a while, and something in the 14 range with it running and the engine revved a bit.

One explanation for your symptoms is a charging system problem, and when the battery voltage gets too low, the ignition system quits. Then letting it sit for a while lets the battery recover a little and it starts and runs for a while. I know when I had a failing battery in mine, once cranking got slowish, I had to push it to start it.

These bikes don't have CDI by the way, they're electronic ignition systems that switch coil primary current, but not Capacitor Discharge Ignition systems.
Ah i see yea im a newbie lol. Damn well i really hope its something simple.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 06:53 PM   #8
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I'd guess it's a loose or corroded electrical connection somewhere. A charging issue probably wouldn't be as intermittent as you describe, but checking the voltage is still a good place to start.
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Old December 24th, 2017, 01:03 AM   #9
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I tried to covert my ZZR250 to coil on plug and it did exactly as you describe, it would start, run for a while then cut out. Turns out the lower resistance of the CoPs was over heating the ignition control unit. By switching back to the original high resistance coils it went away.

So I’d suggest you check the connectors & the resistance of your coils, if one is breaking down it might be overheating the control unit.
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Old December 24th, 2017, 01:18 AM   #10
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Old December 26th, 2017, 10:02 AM   #11
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Ah i see yea im a newbie lol. Damn well i really hope its something simple.
Yea i started it in the morning right before work and it was 14.30 to 14.49 at 2k still cold. But its been hoocked to a battery maintainer. When i turned it off i dod notice the baterry dying pretty quick. I left it and came to work. Il check it tonight when i get back home.
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Old December 26th, 2017, 10:32 AM   #12
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The voltage you measured after starting is a sign that the charging system is working.

If your battery is bad, you could find that when idling, when the charging system is not doing much and the battery is needed to maintain voltage to the ignition system, the voltage drops and spark quits.

Watching the battery voltage while it's running and when it dies, as Edward-Hubert suggested above, could tell us some useful information.

Also, when you get home tonight you could put a meter on the battery and turn on the ignition switch to put the load of the tail light (etc) on the system, and see what the voltage does (engine not running).

Another battery test would be to take off the spark plug caps and ground them to the engine. Then crank for four or five seconds at a time, letting the starter cool between cranking, and see if it can do that several times without getting slower and slower.
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Old December 26th, 2017, 11:01 AM   #13
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Gotcha il do that when i get home. Thanks
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Old December 26th, 2017, 08:13 PM   #14
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Ok so key on engine off it was first at 12.41 then numbers started dropping.
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Old December 26th, 2017, 08:17 PM   #15
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Battery started dying pretty rapidly aftet 3 sets of 5 cranks. Bike didnt start.
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Old December 26th, 2017, 08:27 PM   #16
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So far, the symptoms seem to point to a failed battery. When you said "key on engine off it was first at 12.41 then numbers started dropping.", what voltage did it drop to, in how long?

How old is the battery? It may be worth replacing it if it's old, and see if that fixes the whole problem.
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Old December 26th, 2017, 08:54 PM   #17
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Several months old but iv been getin stranded and have jumped it with a car i know thats not good. But wouldnt it start if i put a jumper on it if it was a bad battery? I currently have it idling. Its now in operating temp amd it hasnt shut off. Voltage is at 14.40. Now another thing that iv done to this bike is installed a 1980 kz tank, gravity fed but i dont think thats the issue, had it running fine for 2 months, no kinks, clean filter plus thats nothing to do with spark. Do these bikes have crankshaft sensors?
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Old December 26th, 2017, 09:04 PM   #18
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12.47 to 12.26 in one minute. Key on engine off.
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Old December 27th, 2017, 11:48 AM   #19
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Yes, they have crankshaft sensors.

12.47 to 12.25 in one minute is not a disaster, but it's not great, sort of inconclusive.

We still haven't heard what the battery voltage is right at the time of the spark quitting.

As far as jump starting, it's not a problem if the car's engine is not running. From a recent post of mine:
Quote:
Under certain conditions, a regulator can be damaged while jump starting. One way it can happen is if the vehicle supplying the jump start is running and has a battery voltage higher than the set point of your bike's regulator. Then the regulator, which is a shunt type, tries to shunt current to ground, and since there can easily be more current available through the jumper cables than the regulator can handle, it fails.
Does the 14.4 volts you measured while idling stay reasonably steady if you rev the engine a little, like up to 4,000 rpm?
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Old December 27th, 2017, 12:25 PM   #20
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It hasnt been quiting on its own lately. So iv been shutting it off once in operating temp snd will sometimes start and sometimes not. I still got a new battery il be instaling it later today see if that makes a diffremnce.
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Old December 27th, 2017, 12:26 PM   #21
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I have not reved it to see if voltage changes, i will do that.
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Old January 10th, 2018, 08:32 PM   #22
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Hey guys it turned out to be my battery and headlight. I had been cruising with a tound offroad headlamp. When id turn it on it would slowly kill the voltage in the system. The lamp was burning more power than what the charging system could produce. Got a new battery and a low voltage l.e.d headlight and shes runin goooooood. Thanks for yals help! Because of you all i learned how to use a multimeter and actually found the issue. Thanks!
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Old January 10th, 2018, 09:07 PM   #23
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Good job, I'm glad you found the problem and fixed it.
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