Wheelies on a 250

[knowledge]

Hi guys,

Have any of you been doing wheelies on your 250s regularly? I tried doing a search, but couldn't find anything definitive since they were more about wheelie-ing, in itself.

Not looking to catch flak - I'm genuinely interested in knowing how your bike's holding up. My friend started doing them last year and his forks started leaking, but that was also probably a combination of him setting the bike down hard. I do know that the 250r doesn't have the best suspension, but I'm still wondering if wheelies leading to leaking fork seals are the norm or just the exception for people who can't set them down right.

I'd like to keep practicing, but not at the expense of my forks.

Thanks in advance,

[Bosgarage57]

Originally Posted by knowledge

Hi guys,

Have any of you been doing wheelies on your 250s regularly? I tried doing a search, but couldn't find anything definitive since they were more about wheelie-ing, in itself.

Not looking to catch flak - I'm genuinely interested in knowing how your bike's holding up. My friend started doing them last year and his forks started leaking, but that was also probably a combination of him setting the bike down hard. I do know that the 250r doesn't have the best suspension, but I'm still wondering if wheelies leading to leaking fork seals are the norm or just the exception for people who can't set them down right.

I'd like to keep practicing, but not at the expense of my forks.

Thanks in advance,

usually when people slam their bikes down their fork seals dont last long. It doesnt cost a horrible amount to get them rebuilt ($100 or so here) I had my old zx6r done cause my brother was rough on it. I dunno about doing wheelies on the 250 tho. good luck.

[MikeCG23]

I can only get a good wheelie when my bike is just barely warmed up and in first gear only. If my bike is thoroughly warmed up, trying a wheelie is a joke. With that said, I don't see much damage being done to the front forks, IMO.

[alex.s]

intentionally trying to get your front wheel up seems completely pointless to me unless you're trying to look cool... and if you're trying to look cool, in my opinion, you shouldn't be riding something that can easily kill you.

now... trying to learn how to keep your front wheel down while applying as much power as you can... that makes a lot more sense to me.

[Havok]

Originally Posted by alex.s

intentionally trying to get your front wheel up seems completely pointless to me unless you're trying to look cool... and if you're trying to look cool, in my opinion, you shouldn't be riding something that can easily kill you.

now... trying to learn how to keep your front wheel down while applying as much power as you can... that makes a lot more sense to me.

i am with alex, More skill in getting on the throttle hard as hell and keeping the wheel down then getting the wheel up. I have spent the past few weeks working on that on the 600.

The 250 i have not tried to do one, my guess is it would look bad and not be a smooth up and down due to lack of power.

get a salvaged 600-650 that you can do them on, that way you wont be messing up your bike.

[MikeCG23]

I find it harder getting my wheel off the ground with full power rather then keeping it on the ground lol

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Havok

i am with alex, More skill in getting on the throttle hard as hell and keeping the wheel down then getting the wheel up. I have spent the past few weeks working on that on the 600.

The 250 i have not tried to do one, my guess is it would look bad and not be a smooth up and down due to lack of power.

get a salvaged 600-650 that you can do them on, that way you wont be messing up your bike.

Jeff, i've discovered recently how great the rear brake is for this. just a tiny tiny slight pressure (edit:without changing throttle) and the front comes back down nice and slow without losing much power.

[Live2ride]

I tried wheelies one day, I didn't get very high and could only do them in first gear. My step bro said he could do pop ups in second gear but not a chance of that for me. I've also done power wheelies near the end of first gear after a great take off. I weigh 250 lbs btw...

[rockNroll]

Where do I get one of these 250's that lifts the front with acceleration?

[alex.s]

step one: RPM at 10k
step two: drop clutch

[Live2ride]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

Where do I get one of these 250's that lifts the front with acceleration?

After shimming the needles, I reved up to redline, took off as fast as I could and near 10k the front wheel lifted off the ground. It's only happened once and I've only tried that fast take off maybe 2-3 times.

[Bosgarage57]

Are you all using stock sprockets? Only reason I'd wanna do wheelies is to have fun in a parking lot. (When) I find a 250 I want to streetfighter it and possible play around with it lke wheelies IN A CONTROLLED ENVIORNMENT, not out on the streets. I'm wondering if you go down 1 in the front if thatd help. With all the said, how do we wheelie a 2fiddy?!!??!

[rockNroll]

With acceleration, not clutch popping, you n00bs

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

With acceleration, not clutch popping, you n00bs

on the 250 i can't get powerwheelies... clutch drop wheelies easy. shift into 2nd wheelies easy, specially if you're rough on her. but powerwheelies? mmm...... maybe if you lean way back and pull up on the bars :-P

on the 600 though... thats a completely different story.

[Havok]

Originally Posted by alex.s

Jeff, i've discovered recently how great the rear brake is for this. just a tiny tiny slight pressure (edit:without changing throttle) and the front comes back down nice and slow without losing much power.

i will have to give that a shot, i am right on the edge right now and i tend to go less throttle just to make sure the front stays down. the good thing for me is my front tends to stay down more then yours does, bad thing is, yours is faster lol.

[gogoKawi]

Here you go!

Link to original page on YouTube.

[slolane]

I wouldn't think it would cause issues so long as you set it down easy, problem is that once it starts to go down it may be hard to do easy with the low power. Years ago I did wheelies on my CBR929 daily but that had a lot of power, even if it was starting to drop you could recover and bring it back up or set down easy. The high power and short wheelbase made those wheelie very easy. That being said, I don't wheelie any more.

[bdavison]

Ive been known to lift the front off the deck a few times, but I dont make a regular habit of it. It really puts a lot of stress on the bike that isnt good for it. If you're gonna do it, do it as gently as possible.

Worn sprockets, stretched chains, blown fork seals, worn out head bearings...if you dont mind having to maintain what you wear out, go for it.

Its pretty much rev it to 11g, and dump the clutch. I usually get it moving in first nice and slow, then rev it and dump it in either 1st or 2nd. It will lift it off about a foot or so.

If you plan on stunting mostly, it would be a good idea to change out the sprockets so that you get tons of torque...albeit at the sacrifice of top end speed. The added torque will make it much easier to get the front end off. You'd be pretty much making it strictly a stunt bike, instead of a daily rider though unless you are just sticking to city streets.

Also bear in mind that the ninja doesnt have a steering damper. So if you go vertical, and drop it too quick, dont be surprised when the front end gets all squirrelly on you.

When/If you want to start doing more stunts like stoppies and such. It would be a real good idea to swap out the front end for a beefier inverted fork/two rotor front end. Its really tricky to do a stoppie with the single rotor stock front end. It tends to twist on you, and loading up the stock forks with 500lbs is really pushing their limits.

[bdavison]

This is how you do it...

Link to original page on YouTube.

[SSR]

This guy has some skill. Incredibly stupid with no gear or helmet, but he's got skill:

Link to original page on YouTube.

Just for the first 1:30. After that it gets silly.

[SSR]

Originally Posted by bdavison

This is how you do it...

Link to original page on YouTube.

Ok, that guy makes my youtube guy look like a chump.

[rusninja]

http://youtu.be/RCDBvE23-qk

http://youtu.be/vYNBZYuKo14

[knowledge]

Originally Posted by alex.s

intentionally trying to get your front wheel up seems completely pointless to me unless you're trying to look cool... and if you're trying to look cool, in my opinion, you shouldn't be riding something that can easily kill you.

now... trying to learn how to keep your front wheel down while applying as much power as you can... that makes a lot more sense to me.

This is why I added the disclaimer for catching flak. I'm a really technical guy, and I know my bike REALLY well. It's not really about trying to look cool, it's more about knowing what my bike's capable of. I've gotten to within a couple mms of my strips on the street (I'm not willing to push it to the very edge unless I'm on a track). This year, I'm riding less aggressively 'cause I know what it's like to go nuts in the twisties.

But now I wanna get more into wheelies. I'm happy with my 250 and I don't plan on "upgrading" soon. I'd like to take advantage of everything this bike can offer.

As for keeping the front end down, I've never had that problem (even at WOT). But I'm sure that's gonna change when I get my bike back from the shop (area p quiet core, shimmed needles, rejet, new spark plugs. oh lordy lordy)

Thanks for the replies, guys. More are definitely welcome since it's still not definitive exactly how much stress it'll put on the bike. I'm sure that for every couple of smooth landings, there'll be a couple of rough ones...

Originally Posted by rusninja

http://youtu.be/RCDBvE23-qk

This one's one of the best that i've seen. I was gonna post that one up, but you beat me to it. Also, in this video, dude's doing this all stock. Granted, he has experience with the balance point and stunting on a smaller dirtbike, but it shows that it is possible (although it'll be a lot harder for us).

[Francis]

Originally Posted by alex.s

intentionally trying to get your front wheel up seems completely pointless to me unless you're trying to look cool... and if you're trying to look cool, in my opinion, you shouldn't be riding something that can easily kill you.

now... trying to learn how to keep your front wheel down while applying as much power as you can... that makes a lot more sense to me.

I disagree with the first part. I did wheelies on a BMX when I was younger when I KNEW no one else would've notice. It's fun, but I agree with your other statement.

Don't do it riding something that can easily kill you.

But I'll be honest. I've tried doing a wheelie on my 250r. I think I only went up to 8k in first and dropped it. Didn't even lift up. I tried 3 times, then I said eff it, I don't wanna break my bike lol

I AM interested in doing stoppies, or at least just learning it. A friend told me it might eff up my forks, so I don't think I'd try.

Man, there's nothing fun I can do with the 250 haha. Rolling burnouts, no no. I'm too poor to afford new tires...

[bdavison]

Stunting costs money no doubt. You can easily go through a set of tires in minutes if you are doing rolling burnouts. And you will be replacing parts every other week.

[Francis]

Watching those videos makes me wanna try it again.

I should man up and get it up to 10k lol. Maybe next year. My student ass would be useless without a bike this year.

[phr3ek]

Originally Posted by alex.s

step one: RPM at 10k
step two: drop clutch

step three: do not crap thyself

i would buy a beat up old bike for less than $800 or so and learn to stunt the crap out of it
minimal insurance, empty parking lot, with friends just in case worst comes to worst

that way when you actually do do it on your real bike, you wont drop it or mess up
and you can bet ppl that you can do it

[backinthesaddleagain]

As BDavison said:
Ive been known to lift the front off the deck a few times, but I dont make a regular habit of it. It really puts a lot of stress on the bike that isnt good for it. If you're gonna do it, do it as gently as possible.

Worn sprockets, stretched chains, blown fork seals, worn out head bearings...if you dont mind having to maintain what you wear out, go for it.

Dirt bike is a great way to learn wheelies, no citizens (or cops) to offend, and the bike can take it. Wheelying past your buddies through mud or water and getting them dirty is always fun. That said I love how Biaggi's bike always pops that little wheelie on his upshifts in WSB.

[Francis]

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

As BDavison said:
Ive been known to lift the front off the deck a few times, but I dont make a regular habit of it. It really puts a lot of stress on the bike that isnt good for it. If you're gonna do it, do it as gently as possible.

Worn sprockets, stretched chains, blown fork seals, worn out head bearings...if you dont mind having to maintain what you wear out, go for it.

Dirt bike is a great way to learn wheelies, no citizens (or cops) to offend, and the bike can take it. Wheelying past your buddies through mud or water and getting them dirty is always fun. That said I love how Biaggi's bike always pops that little wheelie on his upshifts in WSB.

I did a couple of simple Google searches. Couldn't find anything. Got a link for those "biaggi upshifts wheelie wsb" you're talking about?

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by Francis

I did a couple of simple Google searches. Couldn't find anything. Got a link for those "biaggi upshifts wheelie wsb" you're talking about?

No link, just watch in world superbike that RSV4 lofts the wheel every up shift, its not like high up, i just like watching it. though at victory (last year anyway) the guy can ride a pretty good one.

[Havok]

For me a sheelie looks like crap on the 250 its rough and jerky and just not smooth.

my theory is
Clutch Dump wheelies = ugly
Power Wheelies = Sexy
Power Wheelie that is just off the ground as the rider stays on the throttle = Super sexy

[Xoulrath]

I can't get anything more than the front getting light on my ZX, though I have no serious interest in wheelie-ing. Those You Tube videos are nice; some people have skills. Though I hope they aren't paying the maintenance bills.

[Havok]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

I can't get anything more than the front getting light on my ZX, though I have no serious interest in wheelie-ing. Those You Tube videos are nice; some people have skills. Though I hope they aren't paying the maintenance bills.

Pull harder on the throttle, you can also double hit the throttle to get it started if you want, give it a nice pull on then off then full on bwap bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa is what you will hear lol. Make sure you are in the powerband though lol. I dont know how the zx's are i can only power wheelie in first and second on my bike. I hate when it comes up in first as i am at the top of redline pretty fast and the limiter kicks in and it goes down hard on the front.

I have been looking for as many open roads as i can to work on my throttle on the 600. i want to have the right feel for how hard i can et on the throttle and not have the front come up. Just trying to get max acceleration and keep both wheels on the ground.

[gfloyd2002]

Try it with a passenger. Better weight distribution for low power wheelies.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

On the topic, I'm kinda bummed we have a wheelie thread. I was into skating and biking and enjoyed trying new tricks. But when you fall it sucks, and you do fall - everyone does. Stunting is just plain dumb on a motorcycle. Whether you do it out of curiosity for what the bike can do, to impress someone, or just to challenge yourself it doesn't matter - you are going to fall at some point. And on a motorcycle, a mistake is too costly, both to bike and rider. If this thread in any way encourages people to try wheelies on their ninjettes, we've all failed.

[gogoKawi]

I'm going to edit your post a little. Remove and add a few words...

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

On the topic, I'm kinda bummed. I was into skating and biking. But when you fall it sucks, and you do fall - everyone does. Motorcycling is just plain dumb. Whether you do it out of curiosity for what the bike can do, to impress someone, or just to challenge yourself it doesn't matter - you are going to fall at some point. And on a motorcycle, a mistake is too costly, both to bike and rider. If this thread in any way encourages people to try motorcycling, we've all failed.

I knew this sounded familiar! I hear stuff like this from people on a weekly basis in regards to just riding my motorcycle. "Why do you ride a motorcycle." "It's so dangerous." "If you ride, you are going to fall. All riders do."

It amazes me how somethings are ok with people, and variations of the same things aren't. Let's replace wheelies with going to the track or riding 2-up. Both are things that we can do on our motorcycles, and both are things that make riding your motorcycle more dangerous.

I know everyone is entitled to their opinion. And I respect that. But your statement is straddling a very fine line towards hypocrisy.

[Reddoak]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

...
On the topic, I'm kinda bummed we have a wheelie thread. I was into skating and biking and enjoyed trying new tricks. But when you fall it sucks, and you do fall - everyone does. Stunting is just plain dumb on a motorcycle. Whether you do it out of curiosity for what the bike can do, to impress someone, or just to challenge yourself it doesn't matter - you are going to fall at some point. And on a motorcycle, a mistake is too costly, both to bike and rider. If this thread in any way encourages people to try wheelies on their ninjettes, we've all failed.

I think you may need to clarify. For example, I disagree with you. I think stunting is a cool thing to do with a bike. It's just another way of enjoying it. That said, I keep both wheels on the ground on the road. On a private parking lot, I've been known to hoist a wheel every now and then.

I put stunting on the street in the same category as racing on the street. Wrong place. Not wrong activity, just the wrong place. There's too much in the way and out of your control on a road. On a track, or a lot for stunting, you can control the factors that can distract or hinder you, and minimize the risk you pose to other people and their property. The two videos you posted weren't stunting, anymore than a video of a rider lowsiding on a public road in traffic is racing. All those videos are are retards in public.

As far as falling goes, I've dropped a bike, and it sucked. However, I'm still riding. Falls happen, I'm sure more people are injured and killed riding on public streets than practicing wheelies in a closed lot.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

Try it with a passenger. Better weight distribution for low power wheelies.

Actually, if you look at the successful wheelies on the Ninja 250, you'll see them putting their feet on the rear pegs. This moves their center of gravity to the rear and makes for a better wheelie.

The shirtless guy in the first video made a nice cushion for the rider. It would have been cool if they had shown his back after the attempt.

On the topic, I'm kinda bummed we have a wheelie thread. I was into skating and biking and enjoyed trying new tricks. But when you fall it sucks, and you do fall - everyone does. ...

That's interesting. I used to inline skate too, but I gave it up because it was too dangerous. I got hurt several times while skating. I mean, just a simple looking fall ends up messing up my back for several weeks.

I've been riding motorcycles since September of last year. I don't do stunting, but I've gone down twice since then. Both times, nothing but a bruised ego (+ bike damage) thanks to my gear. Based on what I've seen so far, motorcycling is far safer than inline skating.

[phr3ek]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Actually, if you look at the successful wheelies on the Ninja 250, you'll see them putting their feet on the rear pegs. This moves their center of gravity to the rear and makes for a better wheelie.

it's not for shifting center of gravity, majority of your weight is still over the tank
it's for better balance when the bike is up
it's easier to balance yourself and the bike while you are upright rather than leaning back holding onto the bars

[Reddoak]

Before anyone gets creative... Only one foot, the left one, is on the back pegs. The right one is on the front peg, covering the rear brake in case they need to bring the bike back down.

[gfloyd2002]

Originally Posted by gogoKawi

I knew this sounded familiar! I hear stuff like this from people on a weekly basis in regards to just riding my motorcycle. "Why do you ride a motorcycle." "It's so dangerous." "If you ride, you are going to fall. All riders do."

It amazes me how somethings are ok with people, and variations of the same things aren't. Let's replace wheelies with going to the track or riding 2-up. Both are things that we can do on our motorcycles, and both are things that make riding your motorcycle more dangerous.

I know everyone is entitled to their opinion. And I respect that. But your statement is straddling a very fine line towards hypocrisy.

In my opinion, Motorcycling isn't very dangerous unless riders ride stupidly. Study after study show that it is the mistakes of the rider that cause a majority of motorcycle accidents. (Most are single vehicle accidents, and many of the multiple vehicle accidents are the motorcyclists fault, too.) Of those that are caused by car error (like not seeing the motorcycle), most of those could be avoided if the rider took reasonable precautions. I happen to believe that it is really important for people who ride to do so with risks fully in mind, not ride in a way that increases those risks, and to study and practice to minimize the risks any further. Stunting is the opposite of that.

So I disagree with those people who say that you shouldn't ride a motorcycle because it is too dangerous. I do, however, agree with those people who say you shouldn't ride a motorcycle stupidly. It doesn't have metal around you to protect you, and it is more unstable than a car. You need to ride it responsibly. And stunting is usually irresponsible. I may note here that I happened to have seen someone die doing a wheelie last December, so forgive me if I'm bit bummed at encouraging people to stunt. I could forsee stunting done responsibly, at the right place, with the right gear, with thoughtful people doing it with appropriate skill levels, I suppose. I just don't see any discussion of these things in this thread, which is well into gixxer.com territory. All I said was I was a bit bummed at the turn of direction for the forums, which usually have a heavy focus on skill building, safety and gear. Just my opinion, and one that I think has enough sense behind it to avoid an accusation of hypocrisy even if you disagree.

On a point of logic, your hypocrisy argument is very much like a slippery slope argument --The idea is that if you take that seemingly innocuous first step, it automatically leads to a second, which will force a third, and so on and so on until, next thing you know, there we are in Satan's own livingroom listening to Yanni on 8-track. And if you come out against the end result, your original position is hypocrisy. The flaw in this reasoning is that the premise behind the original position most often has nothing to do with the premise behind the last one, and it is possible that someone can believe in degrees - one thing is not enough, another is too much of something. All is not black and white. Is it not possible that some level of danger is acceptable to someone, but not an increased level past what they are comfortable with? In my case, I believe it imminently reasonable that one could wholeheartedly believe motorcycles are not unduly dangerous, even if slightly more dangerous than cars, if one takes reasonable precautions - yet at the same time believe that one should not deliberately ride in a way that increases risk unnecessarily.