More chain trouble: 2-month old chain, O-Ring failure at master link. :( What now?

[CZroe]

Anyway, I didn't get to rebuild my forks today as I intended so I haven't put my new chain on yet. Before I do, how much of a flare should I make on the rivet head?

Originally Posted by headshrink

Yeah, I thought you were talking about the organic one.

Glad to hear they are working so well for you.

I still have those rotors, so if your ever interested in really being a guinea pig, let me know

I'm pretty sure I'm well past the service limit on my front rotor so this will probably be my last set of pads on them (I finally got the calipers to check last week). IIRC, you said that they messed up the bolt holes by not having a place for the head to rest flush or something like that, right? Well, my bolts are probably trash and will need to go when this rotor comes off, so I'll probably need to buy some anyway. I'll go dig up the PMs.

[headshrink]

I don't remember exactly. I think I have one with the wrong sized holes, and another replacement that was drilled-out to spec. If interested I'll get it down from it's shelf....

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by headshrink

I don't remember exactly. I think I have one with the wrong sized holes, and another replacement that was drilled-out to spec. If interested I'll get it down from it's shelf....

I'll dig up the PMs. I doubt I could afford it for a few months anyway!

[CZroe]

When riveting the master link, how do I know what size to flare the pin to? I will be using a Harbor Freight chain tool that can be used to rivet links even though it wasn't made for it. The service manual mentions some measurements that I'm pretty sure are meant for an EK SRO rivet link. Volar sent me instructions but they do not say how much to flare the pins of the link. Should I just use calipers to measure a normal pin from another link and flare it to match?

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by CZroe

When riveting the master link, how do I know what size to flare the pin to? I will be using a Harbor Freight chain tool that can be used to rivet links even though it wasn't made for it. The service manual mentions some measurements that I'm pretty sure are meant for an EK SRO rivet link. Volar sent me instructions but they do not say how much to flare the pins of the link. Should I just use calipers to measure a normal pin from another link and flare it to match?

Very good question! I had the same issue last time trying to find this info. From what I can find this varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. I would first check with them. I don't think I ever found the number for mine, but shot for the mean of Kawi's number. IIRC this can actually vary widely between manufacturers, so this is only a starting point, but if it is the only info you can get, I would think you could get by with it. Jut go really slow, measuring several times as you flare.

[toobem]

Originally Posted by CZroe

I just wanted to add that I had almost complete chain failure later that summer while this chain was still somewhat new. The roller links were cracked, missing and partially missing (C-shaped) and the partially-missing ones were taking bites out of my sprocket teeth. It may be due to this and it may be due to riding 130 miles with it being way too tight sometime in August.

Also, I ordered another and it now comes with a rivet link and has "Volar" stamped on several links. I'm still pretty sure they just paid a generic supplier to brand them because there is no way that they make gloves, chains, brake pads, and everything else under the sun. Even the product that the old link links to has been updated to reflect the new link. Also, it finally comes in a branded box but the box shows a clip-type master link!

Please, please, please do yourselves a favor and stay way away from Volar. Just rode 50mi with a NEW Volar chain, and it chewed up my back tire.

Issues started during install, when the master link rivet cracked apart while setting the rivet.......didn't even apply half the pressure used to set previous chains.

I compared tensile strength to that of an old DID link I had laying around. Volar claims over 10,200lbs, but the link cracked in half at a 20 degree bend......compared to the DID that bent at a 45 degree with no signs of breakage.

There is way too much lateral movement in this chain, and I'm now missing large chunks from the edge of the tire and sidewall. Now I not only need a new chain, but a new back tire.

VOLAR CHAIN IS LETHAL! There is no way this chain should be on the market, and I still haven't gotten any response from D2Moto (the seller). Steer clear, and get yourself a chain that's road worthy.


Good luck,
toobem
1998 TL1000R
1 liter Duc eater........

[choneofakind]

That wasn't a tensile test. Tensile tests pull the item apart lengthwise. There's not any bending involved in a tensile test.


^^ this is what a tensile testing machine looks like. that 10,000lb+ estimate from volar is found by stretching the object in question out.

[Jiggles]

How does a chain destroy a tire???

[toobem]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

That wasn't a tensile test. Tensile tests pull the item apart lengthwise. There's not any bending involved in a tensile test.


^^ this is what a tensile testing machine looks like. that 10,000lb+ estimate from volar is found by stretching the object in question out.

Fair enough.......not a tensile test, but still a way I used to compare it's strength to another, more reputable, brand. As mentioned, the rivet simply cracked under half pressure that it normally takes to set it. I believe the fact that the link itself broke in half at least indicates it hasn't been heat-treated properly.

The chain moves an extraordinary distance side-to-side, and rubs the tire when in motion. There are huge melting points/chunks in my Sportmax.

This is my 5th chain I've installed, and I've never seen or had an issue even resembling this.

Sorry for the misrep of a tensile test.........my bad. However, bending the link does stretch it, and when it breaks in half at a 20 degree bend........probably not good. Check for yourself if you can. My bet is that under proper conditions with a tensile testing machine/contraption you'll get similar results. Unsafe, period. That's the point. Thanks for the correction, though.

[CZroe]

This post could not have come at a better time. I attempted to install a D2moto-sourced chain with similar results recently and I just received two revised Volar chains for review on Friday. These are supposedly improved and I had to wait until they got their samples incorporating the improvements to get mine.

Originally Posted by toobem

Please, please, please do yourselves a favor and stay way away from Volar. Just rode 50mi with a NEW Volar chain, and it chewed up my back tire.

I'm not really sure how this is possible without BOTH an extra-wide rear tire and a serious misalignment. If it was rubbing the tire, it should have been obvious right away.

Originally Posted by toobem

Issues started during install, when the master link rivet cracked apart while setting the rivet.......didn't even apply half the pressure used to set previous chains.

Indeed, I had the same issue when installing my last one, though I attributed it to me using the wrong tool: Harbor Freight Heavy Duty Chain Breaker (see YouTube videos for how to rivet with it). I have since bought a Stockton Chain Tool Kit from Cycle Gear with a proper rivet pin and backing plate. The one that cracked did so with far less pressure than the one that I flared to the minimum spec. That said, Volar had previously contacted me after my other experience with their old chain that included a clip-link and told me that the rivet link was a direct response to customer demand and that now they were receiving complaints about installation difficulty and that they would look into including one type and selling the other to satisfy both customer bases. That sounds like a pretty responsive brand, which is impressive. That said, I was told that they are now made in China but by a Japanese company with Japanese steel. They stated that this company also made OEM chains for many manufacturers. They eventually told me that I could buy an RK master link because it was engineered to match those specs. I have other reasons to now believe that RK is the actual manufacturer: First, they make OEM O-ring chains (see their 2012 Japanese catalog), but their aftermarket chains in the USA are all X, W, or Y ring except for NOS (new-old stock). You couldn't even get the plain O-ring type replacement master link. I had to order the it from a Texas warehouse that had them on closeout due to being so old, so I hope it matches the current specs. I wish I had a clip-type Volar link to compare it to. If I did, I would see if they were identical. If true, this implies that RK wants to maintain a premium brand image and price while silently serving the low-margin high-volume OEM and value markets, which explains how Volar would get them as a supplier. Next, RK is the only name-brand Japanese maker I can find offering colored chains, and Volar offer colored chains. I strongly believe that you would have had the same issues with an RK chain, unless these "revised" ones are the first from them.

Originally Posted by toobem

...There is way too much lateral movement in this chain, and I'm now missing large chunks from the edge of the tire and sidewall. Now I not only need a new chain, but a new back tire.

What size tire are you running? Did you confirm that you got the right size chain? Do any of the links say "520" on them? The one I bought a year ago with a clip link was huge and thick and the shop installing it told me that it was not a 520 chain until I pointed out the markings on the links proving it.

Originally Posted by toobem

VOLAR CHAIN IS LETHAL! There is no way this chain should be on the market, and I still haven't gotten any response from D2Moto (the seller). Steer clear, and get yourself a chain that's road worthy.


Good luck,
toobem
1998 TL1000R
1 liter Duc eater........

D2moto wasn't able to help me with a replacement master link about a year ago but they were responsive and able to offer me O-rings and a discount on future chains when I mentioned my problems last time (problem caused by a shop botching the removal of extra links).

My primary complaint so far is the continued lack of replacement parts even after their "solution" of telling me to buy a compatible RK O-ring link. They do seem responsive to customers and their demands. @vincent33 is the user they contacted me through, if you would like to contact them yourself. They aren't super-light racing chains but, then again, they aren't claiming to be expensive and fancy "better than O-ring" chains either, and the bulk probably increases their strength (assuming that they are still bulky; I haven't opened the package yet). If what they say is true, I expect OEM quality and expect that they are more than good enough for our small bikes.

Now, I will not be reviewing them through rose-colored glasses just because they sent me free chains (it's not like I didn't also PAY for two chains) and I will be incorporating everything you said into my impressions. That said, I'm glad that I did not jump to conclusions about their chain being at fault for the last failure and hope that you aren't doing so. When the OEM EK SRO chain began doing the same thing my Volar chain did, I considered them mostly vindicated in that respect.

[toobem]

I've been running a 200 on the back for the last 27,000 miles, or so. I've used RK, EK, DID, and no Volar. All were/are O-ring chains. All were used while using the same alignment process, and all but one, the Volar, performed well. The chain moves too much laterally. I initially thought that I might be at fault, but I did nothing different than I had previously.....not a thing different.

I believe the reason you may assume RK produces Volar is because of the latter's purchase of the former's used (and worn) production equipment. Unfortunately, Volar does not use the same, proven production methods and materials as RK......just the same colors.

All the links clearly state "520", except that now they're coated with burnt/melted rubber. It's my opinion, and not only mine, that a foreign, or non-matching, master link is a bad idea and usually results in binding and extra wear either on the master or the links directly in contact with it. I believe any moto mechanic will support that opinion and, furthermore, that it's irresponsible of D2Moto to suggest anything of the like. But at least they responded to you........I'll see what they have to say during the week, if I have to show up in person.

I wish I'd had the luxury of testing multiple chains to find the best quality, but I'll have to go with the opinions of every consumer report on the subject, mostly because I value the continued functionality of my bike and my limbs. Not to be smart, but that's really what's at stake and my recommendation to everyone is to stay away from this brand when purchasing a part that's so crucial to safe operation. It's just not worth the savings.

Again, not my first rodeo......I've used all the aforementioned chains in the same manner, using the same installation method, and the only one that failed (miserably so) was Volar. When they claim 10,280 lbs tensile strength, they're not just suggesting it will be good enough for small bikes......they're marketing to the largest of race/street bikes, and that is definitely a bogus claim. The only logical conclusion is that Volar is an inferior and unsafe chain.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by toobem

I've been running a 200 on the back for the last 27,000 miles, or so. I've used RK, EK, DID, and no Volar. All were/are O-ring chains. All were used while using the same alignment process, and all but one, the Volar, performed well. The chain moves too much laterally. I initially thought that I might be at fault, but I did nothing different than I had previously.....not a thing different.

Is 200 larger than the OEM tire for that bike? Anyway, where did you find an O-ring RK chain, or do you simply mean that it had rubber rings? They do not seem to sell plain O-ring chains anymore even though they clearly make them and sell them OEM.

Originally Posted by toobem

I believe the reason you may assume RK produces Volar is because of the latter's purchase of the former's used (and worn) production equipment. Unfortunately, Volar does not use the same, proven production methods and materials as RK......just the same colors.

Is this an assumption as well or did you hear that somewhere? I highly doubt they bought it as they clearly switched suppliers and RK continues to produce O-ring chains for OEM and other markets. Economies of Scale would cause them to seek more outlets to justify the manufacturing line for a product that they don't sell under their brand, and that's where Volar would come in. They can sell the cheaper value chains and RK can continue to distinguish their brand as a manufacturer of higher-quality chains.

Originally Posted by toobem

All the links clearly state "520", except that now they're coated with burnt/melted rubber. It's my opinion, and not only mine, that a foreign, or non-matching, master link is a bad idea and usually results in binding and extra wear either on the master or the links directly in contact with it. I believe any moto mechanic will support that opinion and, furthermore, that it's irresponsible of D2Moto to suggest anything of the like. But at least they responded to you........I'll see what they have to say during the week, if I have to show up in person.

That's just it: It wouldn't be a foreign non-matched master link if it really were engineered to accept it, as they say. And you are totally right: It's a VERY bad idea. A dealer once upsold me on a rivet link when they were installing my chain and it bound up and ruined my sprockets. I didn't know that they didn't have a match and would not have agreed. It was completely different with little W-ring rubber rings, smaller side plates, etc. Also, it could only move a few degrees until I removed it and whacked it with a hammer, loosening a ton of black powder from inside that was supposed to be sealed lube. I guess SOME moto mechanics would not support that opinion when it comes to selling you one!

Originally Posted by toobem

I wish I'd had the luxury of testing multiple chains to find the best quality, but I'll have to go with the opinions of every consumer report on the subject, mostly because I value the continued functionality of my bike and my limbs. Not to be smart, but that's really what's at stake and my recommendation to everyone is to stay away from this brand when purchasing a part that's so crucial to safe operation. It's just not worth the savings.

I would like to see some of these reports. So far, we have my bad experience and yours, though mine was repeated with an OEM EK SRO chain and may not have been Volar's fault.

Originally Posted by toobem

Again, not my first rodeo......I've used all the aforementioned chains in the same manner, using the same installation method, and the only one that failed (miserably so) was Volar. When they claim 10,280 lbs tensile strength, they're not just suggesting it will be good enough for small bikes......they're marketing to the largest of race/street bikes, and that is definitely a bogus claim. The only logical conclusion is that Volar is an inferior and unsafe chain.

They said that they recently raised it after their supplier re-engineered it to raise the tensile strength. If I were riding anything more powerful than a 250, I would pay more attention to tensile strength.

[toobem]

You're right in that there are very few to zero reporting on this brand......I wasn't referring to specific reports, but rather the consensus that you get what you pay for, and that we should never sacrifice quality for pricing when purchasing such a crucial component.

For my part, I feel it's my obligation to try to reach every rider possible and relay my experience. You've had trouble, and I've had more trouble with Volar quality.........In essence, the only two bits of feedback anyone is finding so far. Whether these are isolated instances is up for debate, but the fact that two had potentially lethal failings is enough to warrant serious criticism.

Hoping no one gets hurt or worse...........just spend the extra dollars, man. Let the experts test the things, and stay safe.

[toobem]

At the very least, we gotta wonder where the hell is the quality control at the factory?? Someone is either dropping the ball, or worse, doesn't care and won't care until these issues affect his/her bottom line.

[nealt]

Just a suggestion, a few of the guys in my town that race and have 125/250's suggest (if using clips) to safety wire the clip and to be extra sure you can jb weld the the wire and pin connection to be extra sure.

http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum...nks-over-rivet

[toobem]

Def a good idea to safety wire. Thanks, but I'll be riding only on a riveted link from now on.

Also, just a quick correction: Volar claimed 9,850lbs tensile strength, not 10,280 as I suggested earlier. I must've confused with another chain I was shopping. Sorry 'bout that!

[Momaru]

Well, just rolled last nite in from a trip to Canada last night to meet some of our northern bretheren.

While doing my post-trip lube up on the chain, I discovered a split o-ring. However, it's NOT on the master link or any of the adjacent ones. This is an RK520XSO chain with almost exactly 7,000mi on it. I fed my chain PJ1 Blue label every 500-800mi like clockwork and cleaned it with a very brief kerosene rinse two or three times (after which it was promptly air-compressor blow-dried). Kept the chain on spec for tightness the whole time and sprockets look fine. Any ideas how this happened? My only thought was trauma during my get-off at the track a lil over two months and 2,500mi ago, but the chain barely got dirty.

I assume a fubar o-ring means the chain's done. Still haven't had time to do a thorough check of the rest of the chain for other bad rings, but I'm not thrilled about the early death of my $65 chain. OTOH, I ordered a spare master when I originally bought the chain, not knowing if it'd come with one or not. Assuming there aren't any other obviously bad rings, would it be insane of me to replace this link with my spare rivet master?

Edit: After about 20 minutes looking, I'm missing 6 x-rings, and a handful more don't look so healthy. New chain in order. Bleh.