Interested in cylinder head studs?

[garth285]

Hey guys, I am speaking with ARP for some cylinder head studs for my project 09 turbo 250 and I found out the 08-12 250r and the 2013+ 300 have the same cylinder head bolts so the studs should be the same but not yet verified but looking to see if any of the 300 guys would be interested in a stud kit for their 300's

If so please let me know here or threw PM.

So far they told me it would vary from $140-170 per set.

[micoulisninja]

Originally Posted by garth285

Hey guys, I am speaking with ARP for some cylinder head studs for my project 09 turbo 250 and I found out the 08-12 250r and the 2013+ 300 have the same cylinder head bolts so the studs should be the same but not yet verified but looking to see if any of the 300 guys would be interested in a stud kit for their 300's

If so please let me know here or threw PM.

So far they told me it would vary from $140-170 per set.

how much time till we have to decide ?? most probably I won't be able to afford taht till September... and the problem is... how am I going to get those here in Greece ??

[garth285]

Well depending on what they say I may buy a few sets to keep on the shelf and list them online until they sell out possibly.

[micoulisninja]

sounds encouraging !! I'll see what it takes to put the new engine together and if my wife doesn't ask me for a divorce (yet), I will contact you for that !!

[garth285]

I thought I would post this info here since I had another member contact me asking about 10mm studs. I found that ARP has a head stud kit for a Honda that is right around the right measurements length wise for the ninja 250/300.

A 8mm stud can only be torqued to 28ft lbs where as a 10mm stud can be torqued to 60ft lbs.

You would have to machine the engine block to accept a 10mm stud so you will have to have a machine shop put the cases in a jig, drill and tap. Not ideal for most but it is an option.... busa guys have done this for a while.

The ARP part number is 208-4301

That part number is 6.45" long with 10x.125 threads and has 1.3" threads on the block side and 1.0" on the nut side.

ARP says we only need a 6.1" stud so these are .35" or 8.9mm longer than whats needed, that extra clearance should not be an issue as the cams are farther away than that or if you are running a spacer to lower compression (turbo applications) it would only be maybe 6.9mm longer than needed. or just whack .3" off the case side lol.

Thought I'd share this info with anyone who is looking for ninja 250 head studs or ninja 300 head studs.

[spooph]

awesome info and thanks for sharing! I'm missing a large part of understanding here, but why does the block need to be machined? Don't the studs screw into the same threads as the head bolts? Or what am I misunderstanding here?

[garth285]

Originally Posted by spooph

awesome info and thanks for sharing! I'm missing a large part of understanding here, but why does the block need to be machined? Don't the studs screw into the same threads as the head bolts? Or what am I misunderstanding here?

The stock bolt holes in the 250/300 are 8mm thread holes, the larger studs are 10mm so yeah they wont screw right in, you will have to drill the holes larger and then tap it to 10mm.

Also this upgrade is probably only for turbo/nitrous guys maybe someone road racing revving to the moon or higher compression.

If you missed my other thread I found out the 13-15 zx6r exhaust valve springs fit and you can get more pressure out of them = higher revs OK

[spooph]

awesome! Was thinking more for swapping heads a lot for some experimentation - the headbolts being stretch bolts gets expensive quickly...

[garth285]

Originally Posted by spooph

awesome! Was thinking more for swapping heads a lot for some experimentation - the headbolts being stretch bolts gets expensive quickly...

Not a bad idea, ARP can make a set but it gets costly and youd have to get a bunch of guys in on a group buy to make it worth the while unfortunately.

[spooph]

well shoot, I can drill and tap the crank case... Might have to order a set of these up... Thanks again for the heads up!

[APEmike]

2 bits of information to note.

1. You will have to have cometic make head and base gaskets with 10mm holes or be VERY careful drilling yours out every time.

2. As with out massive 1/2" studs for the Hayabusa, more torque could potentially distort the head, block and case.

Just some food for thought.

[garth285]

Originally Posted by APEmike

2 bits of information to note.

1. You will have to have cometic make head and base gaskets with 10mm holes or be VERY careful drilling yours out every time.

2. As with out massive 1/2" studs for the Hayabusa, more torque could potentially distort the head, block and case.

Just some food for thought.

Very good points mike!

Another option to help keep a gasket in place is O-Ring the block!

[APEmike]

O-ringing works well with a dry block and copper head gasket. If you are still running water, you will find it nearly impossible to seal correctly, as the only part of the gasket that gets good pressure is the ring around the cylinders.

[micoulisninja]

Originally Posted by garth285

Very good points mike!

Another option to help keep a gasket in place is O-Ring the block!

APEmike has a strong point there !! in order to seal off liquids you will need a permanite gasket for which you will need to know how much will be "seated" under the pressure you bolt your head on so that both rings seal combustion and the permanite seal the liquids... we use it over here only on certain drag race applications, mostly turbo/nitro cars where cylinder walls are over 10mm of thickness... I tried it on my ZX-12R with muzzy 87mm offset kit and it was a p.i.t.a. to get it working properly....

[garth285]

Originally Posted by micoulisninja

APEmike has a strong point there !! in order to seal off liquids you will need a permanite gasket for which you will need to know how much will be "seated" under the pressure you bolt your head on so that both rings seal combustion and the permanite seal the liquids... we use it over here only on certain drag race applications, mostly turbo/nitro cars where cylinder walls are over 10mm of thickness... I tried it on my ZX-12R with muzzy 87mm offset kit and it was a p.i.t.a. to get it working properly....

I ran a o-ring'ed block on my 04 zx10r with a 2mm big bore kit and never had problems but the gasket on the 10r is a MLS gasket where as the 250 is a single layer so yeah not sure how that would work out!

[micoulisninja]

Originally Posted by garth285

I ran a o-ring'ed block on my 04 zx10r with a 2mm big bore kit and never had problems but the gasket on the 10r is a MLS gasket where as the 250 is a single layer so yeah not sure how that would work out!

you can use the 300 head gasket which is 3-layered... and will fit the 250 block... it is the opposite that can't be done (ie from 250 to 300)
keep in mind it will lower significantly the CR... by about 0,4-0,5...

[garth285]

Originally Posted by micoulisninja

you can use the 300 head gasket which is 3-layered... and will fit the 250 block... it is the opposite that can't be done (ie from 250 to 300)
keep in mind it will lower significantly the CR... by about 0,4-0,5...

Damnit why have you not mentioned this before! Lol.... would be great to lower it a little on the turbo motor

[spooph]

is that where they get the extra displacement, or is the head taller (what is the opposite of decked?)

[garth285]

Originally Posted by spooph

is that where they get the extra displacement, or is the head taller (what is the opposite of decked?)

No, they have a longer stroke on the crankshaft, they can have the same deck height if they use a shorter connecting rod which is what they did, they also moved the location of the piston pin as well.

[APEmike]

The stroke increase is significant if I remember correctly.... But the blocks are interchangeable. If you want iron sleeves, an easy and cheap process of making a big bore block, or going BIG *relatively* and putting in larger sleeves and +6mm pistons, go with a New Gen 250 block. If you want better cooling, longer piston, ring, and cylinder wall life, go with the 300's aluminum/Nikasil block. The Nikasil block however is more expensive to over bore, not everyone can do it, and cant go as big... Rotating assemblies are interchangeable as long as you use ALL 250 or ALL 300 parts. Also, because of the separate block/upper case it IS possible to use spacer plates to raise the block for stroker cranks and/or lower compression or custom tall deck turbo pistons.

/Random info dump...