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Old April 1st, 2022, 01:40 PM   #1
oposum
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Odd LED turn signal issue

Hey guys,

So i have had my bike for an year and i had a light crash and broke some of my turn signals. I know the bike comes with halogen turn signals from the factory but the guy I bough the bike from had changed them for some offbrand LED lights and they were working perfectly fine, two still are after the crash haha.
So long story short I know you need some mods when going from bulbs to leds but since the bike already had LED working normally I just bough some high quality LED turn signals and when I installed them they were not blinking and were barely emitting light as if there is not enough power going to them. Only one side at a time is working(left or right as it should). I tested the turn signals directly on the bike's battery and they work normally as expected so they are not faulty. Any ideas on what could be the issue highly appreciated
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Old April 1st, 2022, 04:53 PM   #2
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Hi Teo and welcome to Ninjette!

Some more information to narrow down your issues:

1. Which 2 winkers were working before crash?
2. With all 4 installed, which 2 are working as they should?

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; April 2nd, 2022 at 04:07 PM.
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Old April 1st, 2022, 05:31 PM   #3
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that is a strange one..... if they all were working as they should before they were broke.... they should work when you replace them with LED's ....but
not all LED's are the same...some take alot more power to light and it may be that the flasher relay can't deliver that power to those new ones....
is there any electrical information on the new ones ?
and do you know what the old ones were ?
and hardest question of all, do you know what the flasher relay is capable of powering ?
.....
another possibility is you wired it up wrong, positive to negative and negative to positive..... their LED i.e. light emitting diodes and diodes have to be wired correctly ! swap the wires and see if that cures the problem !
......
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Old April 2nd, 2022, 12:50 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Hi Sofia and welcome to Ninjette!

Some more information to narrow down your issues:

1. Which 2 winkers were working before crash?
2. With all 4 installed, which 2 are working as they should?
1. Before the crash all four blinkers were working correctly. After, two are broken, but there is power going to all of them as the two broken ones still have 1-2 working diodes.
2. When all 4 are installed, of the new ones, when you turn on the left side the two left ones turn on, I mentioned this to give you guys info that it is not the most common issue with LEDs of all four turning at the same time.
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Old April 2nd, 2022, 01:04 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
that is a strange one..... if they all were working as they should before they were broke.... they should work when you replace them with LED's ....but
not all LED's are the same...some take alot more power to light and it may be that the flasher relay can't deliver that power to those new ones....
is there any electrical information on the new ones ?
and do you know what the old ones were ?
and hardest question of all, do you know what the flasher relay is capable of powering ?
.....
another possibility is you wired it up wrong, positive to negative and negative to positive..... their LED i.e. light emitting diodes and diodes have to be wired correctly ! swap the wires and see if that cures the problem !
......
Bob........
1. sadly no electrical info on the new ones, except that they are for 12v systems. It says on the box "high vistration resistance" but no clue what this means.
2. The old ones were some really cheap stuff no clue from where as the previous owner had installed them but they were blinking fine. No branding on them.
3. I looked at the flasher relay (the little black box under the seat) but there were no markings, branding or anything on it. I assume it is aftermarket as well in order to accommodate for the LEDs that the previous owner installed.
I was thinking maybe I could revert back to an oem relay to see what happens? I suspect that the LEDs are made to consume more power on purpose so some bikes don't need to change the relay. Any idea on what the OEM relay parameters are so I can find something with the same?
Also another strange thing i noticed, after turning on for example the left side, when you push down the button to turn it OFF the left side blinkers light up for a split second as they normally should work - bright.
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Old April 2nd, 2022, 08:36 AM   #6
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Sounds like you may have damaged turn-signal switch.
And possibly some shorted wiring in damaged LED bulbs.

What happens when you flip switch right?
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Old April 2nd, 2022, 09:35 AM   #7
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The switch was not damaged or hit in any way during the crash and it was working fine with the old blinkers after the crash. The broken blinkers were still partially working on both sides just some of the diodes were broken. I hooked up all the new blinkers, same stuff when you flick the switch to the right. They dont blink and only emit very dim light. I checked for any shorted wires, all clear. This is driving me crazy.
Do you think changing to a factory relay might help, since the new blinkers might be high consumption and the relay I have on there might not supply them with enough power? Also what are the parameters of the factory one so I can try to find a similar replacement?
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Old April 2nd, 2022, 03:07 PM   #8
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Teo:
It sounds like the diode modification in the dash has already been done
and you mistakenly got new blinkers that draw too much amperage ....
they may be diodes but are made so they work with the old mechanical relay.
and they won't work on the Ninja now... easiest solution is to buy a new set of LED lights that do not have the high resistance...
you could try an older mechanical relay ,,,but you would have to UNDO the Modification that has been done to the bike in order to get the LEDS to work in the first place.

I think I would just buy new winker lights ! and set those you got aside.
.......


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Old April 2nd, 2022, 04:14 PM   #9
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This was part that made me think switch may be broken. Having to wiggle it certain way to send full power to winkers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oposum View Post
Also another strange thing i noticed, after turning on for example the left side, when you push down the button to turn it OFF the left side blinkers light up for a split second as they normally should work - bright.
To test if flasher relay is at fault, just remove it and bypass with jumper. Make male version of this:

With wire in place of relay, winkers on left or right will just turn ON full-time instead of flash when you flip switch. This test will confirm or rule out flasher relay as culprit.

But jumper must be solid quality piece, otherwise if bypass test doesn't work, you can't be 100% sure that you've got iffy wiring somewhere, or just crappy jumper.

Can get flasher relay from Napa easily enough:
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NF_E...pressionRank=1

I got one of these so I can adjust blink-rate (works with LED or incandescent bulbs):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000192251369.html

Depending upon results of bypass test, we can narrow down area to examine more closely.
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Old April 2nd, 2022, 10:58 PM   #10
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I've been thinking about what I said previously here.... if the bike has been set up for LED turn signals and they were working fine... the USUAL method of converting the Ninja to LED is by using 2 Diodes ... that in essence converts it to 2 seperate lines to the turn signals.... which should still work fine for a mechanical relay..... SHOULDN'T IT Danno ????
so he wouldn't have to replace the turn signals at all...just get a relay that works ...I am guessing that the turn signal relay on the bike now can't handle the new turn signals.... so getting a new relay would cure the problem
.....
hope that makes sense.... but I have never seen or heard of someone trying to put on turn signals of the old type on a bike set up for LED's
the way I understand it on the modification to make LED's work on the Ninja is they used the filaments in the bulbs to ground one side of the turn signals instead of running an extra wire, silly but that is what they did so only 2 wires work the turn signals and the chassis ground....
to get the bike to where it can handle the LED's you have to isolate the other pair of turn signals from the other 2 or all the turn signals will be on at once like flashers ! so you isolate the other 2 by using a diode in each of the turn signal wires..... and that cures the problem allowing the LED's to be driven on one wire without lighting the other 2 at the same time
.... so it should NOT matter if the new turn signals being used are the old type or not.... they should work on anything that lights up !....
...
so .....yah that makes me think the relay is at fault for what ever reason !
......
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Old April 3rd, 2022, 03:14 AM   #11
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Hi guys, so I am back with good news I removed the relay and connected it with a wire. The blinkers don't blink but they light up nice and bright so I guess I will just have to get the old mechanical relay as these blinkers are made to be used without swapping it out for a new one.
Thank you both soooo much for helping me out with this, much appreciated.
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Old April 3rd, 2022, 10:10 AM   #12
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Good job tracking that down!

Strange thing is factory relay isn't mechanical flasher. It's solid-state but without timer circuit. Just uses capacitor to cycle on & off. Makes it sensitive to current-flow just like mechanical flasher.
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Old April 3rd, 2022, 11:15 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
I've been thinking about what I said previously here.... if the bike has been set up for LED turn signals and they were working fine... the USUAL method of converting the Ninja to LED is by using 2 Diodes ... that in essence converts it to 2 seperate lines to the turn signals.... which should still work fine for a mechanical relay..... SHOULDN'T IT Danno ????
so he wouldn't have to replace the turn signals at all...just get a relay that works ...I am guessing that the turn signal relay on the bike now can't handle the new turn signals.... so getting a new relay would cure the problem
.....
There are 2 mods related to LED winkers:

1. 2-diode indicator-bulb mod is to prevent simultaneous 4-winker flashing by isolating left & right circuits. Doesn't do anything about hyperflashing...

2a. ballast-resistors in parallel with 2w LED bulbs to draw extra current to match factory 10w incandescent bulb. This will satisfy current-draw needs of mechanical or non-timer flasher relays and cures hyperflashing. Kinda defeats power-savings of LED bulb though. Better solution is...

2b. solid-state relay with timer is best solution to solve hyperflashing from LED bulbs.


In this case, it's bad flasher relay since it's not passing any current at all.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; April 3rd, 2022 at 12:23 PM.
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Old April 3rd, 2022, 09:08 PM   #14
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Thanks Danno....
.....
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