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Old February 13th, 2012, 03:51 PM   #1
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Am I a douchebag?

I work at an AT&T cell phone store and I was helping out a couple who wanted to make the switch from dumbphones to smartphones. With help from me they decided on two HTC Vivids. I explained to them the importance of getting a case and a screen protector and they found some that they liked. With the accessories they had chosen, I was hitting my "Accessory per opportunity" goal and they were getting their phones protected. When I rang up the cases, they came up discounted, severely discounted. So rather than tell them that the cases were actually cheaper than they were listed, I told them I was going to give them 2 free car chargers because they had to wait so long. In reality the car chargers were filling the void that the discounted cases left.

In the end they left with what they felt like were some free accessories for a price they planned on paying and I hit my sales goals. So am I a douchebag for what I did? Should I have told them the cases were discounted and then tried to sell them some more stuff to make up for the void in my goals?

For the record I will get fired if I do not hit my sales goals.
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Old February 13th, 2012, 04:07 PM   #2
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No more of a douchebag than 99% of other sales personnel. It's common in pretty much ever sales avenue to do things of that nature. May not be the best thing morally here, but when did morals rule sales?
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Old February 13th, 2012, 04:13 PM   #3
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Old February 13th, 2012, 04:14 PM   #4
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Having had direct, personal experience with this (i used to sell for verizon wireless) i can say this is really a "yes, but" case.

Yes, its a dbag move and most people will feel this way, but then again most people haven't been on the other side of the counter. at vzw it was called ATR (accessory take rate) and what you did was actually encouraged by management. If you missed your ATR target you faced everything from verbal discipline to actual writeups and it also had a very notable impact on your pay. They went as far as to approach customers that weren't (they being mgmt) buying enough or any accessories and harass them until they bought more.

So dbag move, but you had a reason. Doesn't make it right. If you want to be successful in this type of sales you have to pull this kind of thing. If you have a conscience then that isn't the right job for you.
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Old February 13th, 2012, 04:14 PM   #5
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do what ya gotta... my wife make a $1400 sales and i get a $200 nice shirt
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Old February 13th, 2012, 04:15 PM   #6
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That's why I use Amazon...
Yea, I get people like you all the time, I know how to deal with you though
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Old February 13th, 2012, 04:19 PM   #7
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Yea, I get people like you all the time, I know how to deal with you though
Challenge accepted.

You: "Here, you need this $25 case."

Me: "It's $1.30 on amazon. No tax and free shipping, I'll have it by Friday."

Your move, boss.

And douchebag or not, if people choose not to educate themselves before making a major purchase, they pay the stupidity tax. Back in the day when I sold TVs, the times were very good to me. It's right when digital TV was making it's debut, and HD was right around the corner. The switch from analog to digital projection TVs, flatscreen tubes, and then of course to LCD and plasma in a very brief period. People just wanted what was new but were clueless. You could load up their cart with monster component and optical cables, plus the service plans because "this is still a really new technology so you really want to be protected." My accessory and warranty numbers were through the roof. I won awards from Monster. From tee shirts to the very expensive power supplies.

TL;DR take full advantage of stupid people. Show no mercy.
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Old February 13th, 2012, 04:27 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
Having had direct, personal experience with this (i used to sell for verizon wireless) i can say this is really a "yes, but" case.

Yes, its a dbag move and most people will feel this way, but then again most people haven't been on the other side of the counter. at vzw it was called ATR (accessory take rate) and what you did was actually encouraged by management. If you missed your ATR target you faced everything from verbal discipline to actual writeups and it also had a very notable impact on your pay. They went as far as to approach customers that weren't (they being mgmt) buying enough or any accessories and harass them until they bought more.

So dbag move, but you had a reason. Doesn't make it right. If you want to be successful in this type of sales you have to pull this kind of thing. If you have a conscience then that isn't the right job for you.
That's awful that management would harass customers. My managers will explain all the benefits of buying from us and find out what the objection is. If the objection is we are too pricey, then we have ways around that.

Honestly I don't get paid **** on accessories, the only push to sell them is to not get written up and fired.

Basically I sold the customers on the $XX.XX bundle. They knew what they were getting for $XX.XX and were happy with it. I then told them in addition to your $XX.XX bundle, I'm also giving you both a free car charger. They left very happy with their free gift. Win Win right?

And this is the only time I've ever done something like this which is why I was questioning it. I don't try to scam people out of their money, in fact I try to save people money as much as possible even when it means I won't get paid as much. For instance, telling someone to get a gophone instead of a 2yr contract because it's a better option for them. I don't make a dime off the gophone. I also take a look at peoples usage and make sure they are on the cheapest minute plans/ data plans. I saved another family $100/mo off their bill, it tanked my commission but they were so happy they emailed my managers about it
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Old February 13th, 2012, 04:37 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by CynicalC View Post
Challenge accepted.

You: "Here, you need this $25 case."

Me: "It's $1.30 on amazon. No tax and free shipping, I'll have it by Friday."

Your move, boss.

And douchebag or not, if people choose not to educate themselves before making a major purchase, they pay the stupidity tax. Back in the day when I sold TVs, the times were very good to me. It's right when digital TV was making it's debut, and HD was right around the corner. The switch from analog to digital projection TVs, flatscreen tubes, and then of course to LCD and plasma in a very brief period. People just wanted what was new but were clueless. You could load up their cart with monster component and optical cables, plus the service plans because "this is still a really new technology so you really want to be protected." My accessory and warranty numbers were through the roof. I won awards from Monster. From tee shirts to the very expensive power supplies.

TL;DR take full advantage of stupid people. Show no mercy.
Alright, lets take the speck case for example, $35 in my store $20 on amazon.

Reasons why you are going to buy it from me

1. 1 year awesome warranty, if you break this case, I'll give you a new one for free, will amazon do that?
2. You get it now

Still don't want it cuz of price eh? Ok well how about this, You buy this $35 case and this $25 screen protector and I'll waive your upgrade fee. Total cost to you is $24 for both. Whereas if you buy it online you'll have to pay the upgrade fee plus the cost of the accessories plus you have to wait for it to arrive. Also, I'll put your screen protector on now, I'm awesome at it and if I mess up I can just grab you a new one.

Anyway that's how I generally deal with the "online shoppers" And in all honesty, those cheap cases are complete crap. The higher quality cases really do make a difference. Ask me how I know
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Old February 13th, 2012, 04:47 PM   #10
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It's all in presentation. If you say what you did then of course people are going to be thrilled. If you tell them in a slightly more straightforward manner "the accessories you picked are ringing up for cheaper than i had quoted you. Would you like to get a car charger or something else along with it since you're saving money?" You can bet 90% of people would have just taken the discount.

So as i said, dbag move but doesn't mean you are a dbag. That's my answer to your question.
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Old February 13th, 2012, 05:13 PM   #11
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The way i see it, a lot of the electronics and accessories nowadays are made/assembled elsewhere.
If your talking about phone cases, you may find a dirt cheap priced case with no Named brand tag on it. I have an iphone and the otter box case thats sold in america is around the $50 range. i made a bad decision on getting that. When a copied otterbox , made elsewhere is only around 3-4 dollars. no named brand on it.
Everytime i hear to keep money here in america or buy local. I did my research and i found that I can buy LOTs of things cheaper elsewhere.
If ppl did educate themselves before making a purchase, im pretty sure lots of brands would be out.
I buy these oakley shades online for around $20 and I found one locally at the store for $230. Same design, same everything. I then started to think, my god, we are being hella ripped off here in america. Never again.
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Old February 13th, 2012, 05:29 PM   #12
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this is why I am out of that type of sales. Im still in sales.. but its a lot different
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Old February 13th, 2012, 11:56 PM   #13
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I wonder how people would react if someone from a Kawasaki dealership posted about selling a Ninja 250 to a new guy for $7,000, but throwing in an extended warrenty or spare tires.
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Old February 14th, 2012, 12:10 AM   #14
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I wonder how people would react if someone from a Kawasaki dealership posted about selling a Ninja 250 to a new guy for $7,000, but throwing in an extended warrenty or spare tires.
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A more accurate portrayal would be them selling you on a bike at a feasible price (we sell accessories for the same price that the manufacturers themselves sell them for) and then once they had finished the paperwork, realized there was a factory rebate and instead told you they were giving you a 4 year warranty for free.

In that situation, I think you would describe yourself as lucky
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Old February 14th, 2012, 02:24 AM   #15
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I think its a dbag move, but pales in comparison to what I seen on a daily basis doing customer service for AT&T wireless. I absolutely hated the sales people in the COR stores, they ripped people off left and right, and when they would go back to the store and complain they would direct them to call customer service. The people in the call centers were not much better, I could hear people in the cubicles next to me telling BS lies to customers just to increase their sales.

As a general rule I treat other people like I would like to be treated(everyone should), and I don't like being lied to, and I don't like to be sold anything. If I need or want something I'm going to buy it regardless of someone's "sales technique".
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Old February 14th, 2012, 04:17 AM   #16
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You have a horrible job. Horrible.

You are not a douchebag. But keep doing this for another few months or God forbid years and you will become one, because moves like this will provoke no reaction whatsoever in your mind.
It is nice if you are helping people. Keep doing that, it's good for your and for others.

Following has nothing to do with you personally, just a general comment.

Stuff like this makes me hate human society.
There is basically nobody in this world you can turn to with confidence. Unlucky ones can even put their parents and/or spouses in the same pot. It should not be like that.
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Old February 14th, 2012, 11:06 AM   #17
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If you wanted to take the extremely high moral ground, you could've mentioned how the cases were being severely discounted then advise them on the benefits of picking up extra chargers. You'd be guilt-free and still making your accessory quota.

In short, I don't really have a real problem with what you did. It falls in the grey area where you helped both them and yourself.
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Old February 14th, 2012, 12:27 PM   #18
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I think its a dbag move, but pales in comparison to what I seen on a daily basis doing customer service for AT&T wireless. I absolutely hated the sales people in the COR stores, they ripped people off left and right, and when they would go back to the store and complain they would direct them to call customer service. The people in the call centers were not much better, I could hear people in the cubicles next to me telling BS lies to customers just to increase their sales.

As a general rule I treat other people like I would like to be treated(everyone should), and I don't like being lied to, and I don't like to be sold anything. If I need or want something I'm going to buy it regardless of someone's "sales technique".
I work in the COR store for AT&T Wireless. I think this type of stuff has changed as they have added a new quota to our sales quotas. Our NRS (Net rep score) based on customer surveys. Every customer we help gets a survey and they score us. And the scoring is harsh. 9 or 10 = 100%, 7 or 8 = 0% 6 or below = -100% We have to attain a 90% score each month so that means if I get eight 10s and one 8, I'll be less than 90% and get written up. It puts a lot of stress on us to really make sure every customer leaves happy, which is a good thing for the most part.

I 100% agree about the customer service centers. Those people really do suck, which means we can't refer people to them because they will get ****** service and give us a ****** score.
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Old February 14th, 2012, 12:40 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Domagoj View Post
You have a horrible job. Horrible.

You are not a douchebag. But keep doing this for another few months or God forbid years and you will become one, because moves like this will provoke no reaction whatsoever in your mind.
It is nice if you are helping people. Keep doing that, it's good for your and for others.

Following has nothing to do with you personally, just a general comment.

Stuff like this makes me hate human society.
There is basically nobody in this world you can turn to with confidence. Unlucky ones can even put their parents and/or spouses in the same pot. It should not be like that.
On the other side of the fence, I've also given customers stuff for free. For instance, when customers help me hit my quotas by coming in wanting accessories like bluetooth and cases and stuff, I'll give them a discount without them asking. When they don't try to haggle with me and get enough stuff, I'll tell them "Okay, since you are getting X, Y and Z, I'm going to waive your upgrade fee." They would have bought the stuff without a waiver but I'll give it to them anyway. Now of course we aren't supposed to do this stuff and if my managers found out they would probably get mad but I do it anyway.

Now, how anti-douchey am I? Lol
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Old February 14th, 2012, 01:33 PM   #20
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Old February 14th, 2012, 01:41 PM   #21
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This made me lol.

I dread when old people come in and want to upgrade to a brand new iPhone 3Gs. Takes a good hour to show them how to use the phone features of it.
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Old February 14th, 2012, 01:44 PM   #22
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This made me lol.

I dread when old people come in and want to upgrade to a brand new iPhone 3Gs. Takes a good hour to show them how to use the phone features of it.
I figured you'd get a kick out of it! I though it was funny and I don't even sell phones.
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Old February 14th, 2012, 02:27 PM   #23
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This made me lol.

I dread when old people come in and want to upgrade to a brand new iPhone 3Gs. Takes a good hour to show them how to use the phone features of it.
does it really? I picked up my gf's 3GS and it's identical to my iPod touch. Took me like 5 seconds to figure out.
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Old February 14th, 2012, 02:33 PM   #24
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does it really? I picked up my gf's 3GS and it's identical to my iPod touch. Took me like 5 seconds to figure out.
Are you 80?
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Old February 14th, 2012, 02:37 PM   #25
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Are you 80?
you have a very good point that I never considered. Touche sir.
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Old February 14th, 2012, 02:38 PM   #26
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You lied to and stole from your customers. Douchebag.
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Old February 14th, 2012, 02:39 PM   #27
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You lied to and stole from your customers. Douchebag.
Made em happy though
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Old February 14th, 2012, 03:34 PM   #28
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Old February 14th, 2012, 11:02 PM   #29
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What goes around comes around. If you absolutely needed to do that to keep your job, it was a mistake but not a huge deal. Maybe you needed that little help to get by until you are a better salesperson working at a cut-throat corporation. But to cheat people that way simply to boost sales, have that safety cushion for the number you have to hit, or just for the hell of it, it's a slippery slope to douchbagery and worse things. Just for this one time, I hope the customers don't figure out what you did and complain to the management. If I were the manager, I would most likely fire you immediately, or at least suspend your employment, and look into inventory and register count to make sure that nothing was stolen from the store. You might get blamed for theft by customers or co-workers.

My English professor brought up an interesting article during a classroom discussion about what some of the major business colleges started doing recently. The colleges began running their entrance essays into some website that scans essays and finds plagiarism. I forget the figure, but it was some staggering figure by which people cheated on their entrance essay. Everyone that cheated was rejected from the colleges on the basis that people that cheat to get into schools would also cheat in school and, most importantly, in the world of business. In light of recent major events like Madoff, some businessmen do lack ethics, and had their school or employer questioned their ethics and upheld a high standard, we wouldn't have had these incidents.

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Old February 15th, 2012, 12:25 AM   #30
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On the other side of the fence, I've also given customers stuff for free.
That's why I said it it nice of you to help people, and good for you and them.

However, I would very much like to know the percentage of people who actually use the abilities of their super ultra fancy modern and expensive phone with accessories. And I would very much like to know why, if they do.

When you break it down, maybe 5% use them because they need to. 15% use them because they are trendy, but thankfully intelligent enough to learn to use it when they spent money on it.
The rest probably use them because everyone has them and they feel like lesser people if they answer a call on a telephone that can do only that, answer a call...

My point, you sell useless crap to idiots. And that is why your job is horrible. Those 5% who need the phone don't need you because they know what they want. The rest of them don't need the phone, hence don't need your services.

Again, nothing personal, just a reflection on the situation.

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Everyone that cheated was rejected from the colleges on the basis that people that cheat to get into schools would also cheat in school and, most importantly, in the world of business. In light of recent major events like Madoff, some businessmen do lack in ethics, and had their school or employer questioned their ethics and upheld a high standard, we wouldn't have had these incidents.
Businessman is an ass by definition. It is expected from them. Their job is, in a very crude way to put it, to take money from other businessmen in legal or semi-legal ways. More money he takes, the better businessman.

I suppose I will be called an idiot if anyone actually reads what I wrote here. Sometimes I need to say what's on my mind.
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Old February 15th, 2012, 01:08 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Domagoj View Post
That's why I said it it nice of you to help people, and good for you and them.

However, I would very much like to know the percentage of people who actually use the abilities of their super ultra fancy modern and expensive phone with accessories. And I would very much like to know why, if they do.

When you break it down, maybe 5% use them because they need to. 15% use them because they are trendy, but thankfully intelligent enough to learn to use it when they spent money on it.
The rest probably use them because everyone has them and they feel like lesser people if they answer a call on a telephone that can do only that, answer a call...

My point, you sell useless crap to idiots. And that is why your job is horrible. Those 5% who need the phone don't need you because they know what they want. The rest of them don't need the phone, hence don't need your services.

Again, nothing personal, just a reflection on the situation.


The argument you are trying to make is a bit silly. Nobody needs a cell phone, nor a tv, nor a car, etc. To say that cell phones are useless crap, well you can extend that to pretty much everything else people use daily. And I think you would be hard pressed to find a job that did not contribute to the manufacturing of useless crap.
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Old February 15th, 2012, 01:09 AM   #32
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And most people do use the features of their phones daily. They browse the internet, check facebook, play games, pocket calendar, etc. People don't buy phones to be trendy, they buy phones because they have a use for them.
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Old February 15th, 2012, 07:46 AM   #33
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I think a cell phone and a car (transportation public or private) is essential nowadays. Since most don't have a land line, a cell phone is quickly becoming the common denominator for communication. Additionally, everyone needs a way to get around and for some there isn't a decent public transportation system so a car is a requirement.

You'd be a douche if you had no remorse for what you did. You obviously have shown signs of guilt so you know what you did is at least slightly wrong...
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Old February 15th, 2012, 08:01 AM   #34
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Honestly I would have just told them.

"Hey there is some car chargers I can hook you up for no extra charge then what Ive quoted you." BOOM your basis are covered. If they said no, say ok and tell them the lower price, but most likely they would say ok.
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Old February 15th, 2012, 09:22 PM   #35
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Honestly I would have just told them.

"Hey there is some car chargers I can hook you up for no extra charge then what Ive quoted you." BOOM your basis are covered. If they said no, say ok and tell them the lower price, but most likely they would say ok.
That's what I did lol. I mean if he said no to the car chargers then the price would have been lower
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Old February 15th, 2012, 09:25 PM   #36
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hey if I get you an ATT iphone4 could you get me a verizon iphone4?
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Old February 15th, 2012, 09:43 PM   #37
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hey if I get you an ATT iphone4 could you get me a verizon iphone4?
I want to understand what you are saying, but I just don't
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Old February 15th, 2012, 09:46 PM   #38
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NVM you work for ATT... I got it backwards.

Basically I am coming into possession of an ATT iphone4 but I have verizon. So I need a verizon iphone4. So I wanna trade em. Its not for me... for my wife.
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Old February 15th, 2012, 09:57 PM   #39
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NVM you work for ATT... I got it backwards.

Basically I am coming into possession of an ATT iphone4 but I have verizon. So I need a verizon iphone4. So I wanna trade em. Its not for me... for my wife.
Why would you want a slow ass iphone when you have a fast one in your possession?
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Old February 16th, 2012, 12:36 AM   #40
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Why would you want a slow ass iphone when you have a fast one in your possession?
Ahem.... What was I talking about?

You are correct, we need nothing. But that's no fun. So we get something. The problem is that in many cases we get what is imposed instead of what we want. Smart phones are a perfect example.
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