06 250 Won't Start, Please Help!

[aspenratt07]

Alright, so I am about at the end of my rope with frustration, because everything I try to do to my bike tends to keep failing. And they are just simple mods. Anyway, my bike was running just fine yesterday, not acting funny or anything. So far the only thing that I have done to it today is: taken off the upper and lower fairings and the fairing over the front tire for paint work, obviously I unhooked the front turn signals to take off the fairing, then I changed my clutch and brake levers. That's it. And now when I try to start it it does nothing. When I turn the key my dash light light up and my tail and brake light works as well as my rear turn signals and my horn. But when I hit the starter button absolutely nothing happens.

I have checked my battery connections, my fuse box and the wires connecting to my starter button and all is well there. I cleaned the spark plugs and changed the battery a couple weeks ago and have been riding it every couple of days since then and all was well until tonight. I have even tried pulling in the clutch and brake levers and still nothing. It doesn't even try to crank. I have not messes with any of the wires pertaining to the starter button and I am pretty much out of ideas. The weather is super nice tonight and all I can hear is the roar of motorcycles and all it does is depress me more.

If anyone has any ideas that I have not already tried then it would be much appreciated. Thank you. Yes I am kind a noob rider but I have been riding since last October and have not experienced anything like this. Please help

[rawbert625]

There's a little switch on the clutch side of the bike. It's mentioned here:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Replaci...6_brake_levers

It has to be positioned in such a way where the lever pushes it in completely when the clutch is engaged. It's worth looking into it since you said you messed the levers.

[rawbert625]

Here's a good pic. It's called a plunger.

http://faq.ninja250.org/images/a/a2/...-_annotate.jpg

[Motofool]

If you have a voltmeter or testing light, check that juice is reaching the starter when you push the button.

If your headlight dims when you try to start, charge your battery or try another one.

[aspenratt07]

Originally Posted by rawbert625

There's a little switch on the clutch side of the bike. It's mentioned here:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Replaci...6_brake_levers

It has to be positioned in such a way where the lever pushes it in completely when the clutch is engaged. It's worth looking into it since you said you messed the levers.

My bike doesn't seem to have the switch or the plunger, not sure if its supposed to. But my clutch was never a problem before I changed the levers. Do you need to pull in the clutch to change gears when the bike is off but the key is off? If so, then I've done that to which would eliminate a clutch problem. Plus the bike is already in neutral and never needed the clutch before to start it in neutral and still nothing.

But I looked very close before removing the old clutch and there was no switch or plunger as pictured.

As soon as my boyfriend gets off work then I'm going to try to jump it and see if its a battery problem. I'll let you guys know how that turns out.

[soggybottom]

I didn't see any mention of the kill switch being checked. Are you sure it is in the correct position? Even if it is, I have had a bike not start because the switches internals were corroded.

[kirk595x]

Have you checked your kickstand switch?? They can get dirty and loose contact. I've deleted a few of those on BMW RT's due to chronic failure.

[aspenratt07]

Originally Posted by soggybottom

I didn't see any mention of the kill switch being checked. Are you sure it is in the correct position? Even if it is, I have had a bike not start because the switches internals were corroded.

The kill switch is turned off, meaning starting should be in working order. I have not pulled it apart to see what the condition is in on the inside, I will do that tomorrow. Just seems weird for that to be the problem when I've had no problems with it before now.

Originally Posted by kirk595x

Have you checked your kickstand switch?? They can get dirty and loose contact. I've deleted a few of those on BMW RT's due to chronic failure.

I don't think that my bike has a kickstand switch, I don't see any wires anyway. Plus I have tried to start it with both the kickstand down and the kickstand up.

[aspenratt07]

Oh, and BTW I tried to jump start it, and still nothing so I know it's not the battery. I will still look into the switches tomorrow.

[rawbert625]

Originally Posted by aspenratt07

My bike doesn't seem to have the switch or the plunger, not sure if its supposed to. But my clutch was never a problem before I changed the levers. Do you need to pull in the clutch to change gears when the bike is off but the key is off? If so, then I've done that to which would eliminate a clutch problem. Plus the bike is already in neutral and never needed the clutch before to start it in neutral and still nothing.

But I looked very close before removing the old clutch and there was no switch or plunger as pictured.

As soon as my boyfriend gets off work then I'm going to try to jump it and see if its a battery problem. I'll let you guys know how that turns out.

If it doesn't start in neutral then I don't think it's the plunger.

However, a while back I had a similar problem with the same symptoms. Turned out to be a bad starter and diodes. Here's the thread:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119364

that being said you should first check the simple things that others have suggested first, like voltage across the battery, fuses, etc.

keep us updated!

[aspenratt07]

Originally Posted by rawbert625

If it doesn't start in neutral then I don't think it's the plunger.

However, a while back I had a similar problem with the same symptoms. Turned out to be a bad starter and diodes. Here's the thread:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119364

that being said you should first check the simple things that others have suggested first, like voltage across the battery, fuses, etc.

keep us updated!

the diodes, huh? hadn't thought of that, could be an easy fix. is the wiring starter setup the same on the pregen and the newgen? also, where are the diodes located? and can i just use some cheap diodes from radio shack? I don't have much money lying around for repairs here, so the cheaper the fix the better.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by aspenratt07

........ is the wiring starter setup the same on the pregen and the newgen? also, where are the diodes located?........

This schematic belongs to the pre-gen:

http://faq.ninja250.org/images/0/07/..._Schematic.pdf

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Starter_circuit_schematic

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5Ag...zY5/edit?pli=1

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5A...QwNTg3MTU3Y2Yz

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5A...IxZTU2M2YwOWM3

[rawbert625]

Originally Posted by aspenratt07

the diodes, huh? hadn't thought of that, could be an easy fix. is the wiring starter setup the same on the pregen and the newgen? also, where are the diodes located? and can i just use some cheap diodes from radio shack? I don't have much money lying around for repairs here, so the cheaper the fix the better.

Whoops my mistake. I just realized you have a pre-gen. From what I see in this diagram they don't have diodes. Disregard what I said!

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=35999

[aspenratt07]

Originally Posted by Motofool

This schematic belongs to the pre-gen:

http://faq.ninja250.org/images/0/07/..._Schematic.pdf

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Starter_circuit_schematic

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5Ag...zY5/edit?pli=1

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5A...QwNTg3MTU3Y2Yz

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5A...IxZTU2M2YwOWM3

Thanks, I will probably tear the bike apart more in the next couple of days, when I have more time, and see which of those pitstops in the wires is my culprit. I will keep you guys updated.

[aspenratt07]

Originally Posted by rawbert625

Whoops my mistake. I just realized you have a pre-gen. From what I see in this diagram they don't have diodes. Disregard what I said!

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=35999

Its ok, I thought it was the other way around at first, I though you were on a pregen, sounded like an easy fix. oh well.

[quarterliter]

Have u tried seeing if it will turn over? There is an access cover on the left side of the bike. Once the cover is off you can get a ratchet on there and spin the engine over.

[aspenratt07]

Okay, so I took apart the switch panel on the right handlebar (that has the engine cut off switch and the starter button), to see if it was corroded or anything, and it looks practically brand new in there. I didn't get much more accomplished today, but I did remove the side fairings and the fuel tank to try to follow the wires to find the problem, turns out to be much harder than it sounded. I tried to find the starter relay, not sure if I found it or not, but following any wires and I still found no visual problems. Maybe if someone can direct me better to the starter relay on the pregens then I can make sure I looked at the right thing. Also I went ahead and replaced the ignition fuse in case it was blown and I just couldn't tell, still wouldn't start.

As I had mentioned before, I looked very closely around the clutch lever before I replaced it and did not see a clutch safety switch, is it possible that it somehow fell out on it's own while I was riding it or whatever and could that be why it won't start?

Also I found this bit of information, quoted below, talking about water in the float bowls and how it is almost the only reason why a bike would run fine one day and not run at all the next day. But would water in the float bowls actually keep the bike from cranking at all? To remind you, my bike doesn't even try to crank, when push the starter button, absolutely nothing happens.

Quote is from this site HERE:

There are only 3 major systems on any internal combustion engine.

1. Mechanical (pistons going up and down, valves opening and closing): It's REALLY obvious when something fails in this group.
2. Electrical (battery, CDI/black box, coils, plugs): This system is fairly reliable any more, but things can just fail. Moisture is an annoyance, including high humidity. Sometimes vehicles will shut down in high humidity, due to electrical issues. Although it's rare, if it's been rather humid, waiting a day or two to see if things dry up a little might help.
3. Air/fuel. This is the most common place for things to go wrong. Water (again) can easily find its way into a gas tank and then the float bowls (the part of the carbs that holds the fuel that's just about to be burned).

That said, the 2 things (in order) to check for are water in the float bowls and that the spark plugs are generating spark. These are extremely simple tasks to do and are a great introduction to working on your own bike (if you have even the slightest desire to do so). Water in the fuel is nearly the ONLY thing that will cause the bike to work fine one day and then suddenly not work the next. You may have, for instance, filled up with a bad tank right before going home, and had cups of water go straight into the carbs. If you don't want to do your own work, then try making sure all the integrated safety switches are tripped, meaning the kickstand is up, bike is in neutral, and clutch lever is pulled in.

If those things are done and you still don't get any cranking, then buy/borrow/steal a multimeter and check the battery voltage. Then, with the meter still hooked up, try to start the bike. If voltage reads 12.xxx VDC and drops to below 10VDC, you need a new battery.

If the bike IS cranking over, and it hasn't run in awhile, clean the carbs, check/replace the spark plugs, and check/adjust the valves. Your bike won't start/run without one or all of these things being done.

It also mentions the spark plugs, I haven't tested them for a spark yet, but I plan on replacing them and checking them for a spark later this week.


edit: My boyfriend seems convinced that I messed something up when I replaced my clutch and brake levers, if this is even possible let me know. I am running out of things to look at here.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by aspenratt07

........I am running out of things to look at here.

Check this thread for more ideas:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...lay#post666835

Is voltage reaching the starter?

Do your lights dim?

[aspenratt07]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Check this thread for more ideas:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...lay#post666835

Is voltage reaching the starter?

Do your lights dim?

I presume the voltage is reaching the starter, none of my lights dim, they are bright as ever, but thanks I will check out the link.

[ai4px]

Kill switch near the throttle?

[aspenratt07]

Originally Posted by ai4px

Kill switch near the throttle?

yes, upon reading through the other posts you would have noticed that that was obviously checked even though I didn't mention it in my first post. The only reason I didn't mention it in my first post is because I wouldn't have started the thread in the first place if I hadn't already checked the basics. I don't mean to sound like a b*tch, but this problem is driving me super insane.

[ai4px]

Originally Posted by aspenratt07

I don't mean to sound like a b*tch, but this problem is driving me super insane.

Well if you are going to be a b*tch, I'm not going to help you. (Sticks out tongue, crosses arms and turns back toward you).

I saw the mention of the kill switch after I'd posted... but it was too late.

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by aspenratt07

My bike doesn't seem to have the switch or the plunger, not sure if its supposed to. But my clutch was never a problem before I changed the levers. Do you need to pull in the clutch to change gears when the bike is off but the key is off? If so, then I've done that to which would eliminate a clutch problem. Plus the bike is already in neutral and never needed the clutch before to start it in neutral and still nothing.

But I looked very close before removing the old clutch and there was no switch or plunger as pictured.

As soon as my boyfriend gets off work then I'm going to try to jump it and see if its a battery problem. I'll let you guys know how that turns out.

[QUOTE=aspenratt07I presume the voltage is reaching the starter, none of my lights dim, they are bright as ever, but thanks I will check out the link.[/QUOTE]

There should be a plunger there. You must have broken off the plunger when you swapped levers. Your problem is clearly electrical. Don't mess with the engine... There IS a side stand switch. You CANNOT "presume" that voltage is getting to places. You must test the circuit! Be careful jumping bikes, a running car can overload the regulator/rectifier. The car should be OFF.

By the way... did you check the kill switch??????

From the ninja 250 faq
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Underst...afety_switches

Short version
A bike can be started:
in neutral with the side stand down and the clutch out
in neutral, with the side stand up and the clutch out
in gear, with the side stand down and the clutch in
in gear, with the side stand up and the clutch in


Details
To successfully start the Ninja 250, a number of conditions must be met before the starter solenoid can be energized. With the above schematic it is pretty simple to follow the path the electric current needs to flow, beginning with a fully charged battery.
Starting from the battery, the following conditions must be met:
30 Amp fuse in operating condition. Provides 12VDC power to the motorcycle.
Ignition switch in the ON position. Provides 12VDC power to fuse #3, and enables the ignition module.
10 Amp fuse (No. 3) in operating condition. Provides 12VDC power to the run switch, tachometer, neutral lamp, and enables the ignition module.
Run switch in the RUN position. Provides 12VDC to the start button.
Start button.
Gear selector in neutral position -- OR -- Clutch lever in pulled-in position (disengaged). Provides a path to chassis ground for the starter circuit relay, and enables the ignition module.
At this juncture both the ignition module and the starter circuit relay are operational. Pressing the start button at this time will energize the starter circuit relay coil, allowing 12VDC to pass through the starter circuit relay to the starter solenoid.. When the starter solenoid coil is energized, the starter solenoid allows electric current from the battery to pass through to the starter motor, which in turn starts the motorcycle. Success!

[pimpybra]

Does it click at all (the starter solenoid) when you try to start it? If it does, then you should verify your starter is a-ok.

Also, make sure your engine ground connection is clean & tight (it is on the right side of the engine, kinda behind where the clutch cable meets).

[aspenratt07]

Originally Posted by pimpybra

Does it click at all (the starter solenoid) when you try to start it? If it does, then you should verify your starter is a-ok.

Also, make sure your engine ground connection is clean & tight (it is on the right side of the engine, kinda behind where the clutch cable meets).

No, it doesn't click. But I will check into that engine ground, thank you.

[rawbert625]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYec1yFX3YI

Here's a good video on how to diagnose starters/solenoids, It's not on a 250 but the it's the same thing for our bikes. IIRC the solenoid is on the right side of the bike and looks like this (with 3 wires connected to it one on top, two to the side):

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...CL._SY300_.jpg

you can also find it by following the black wire that is connected to the starter (a black cylinder looking thing sitting above where the clutch is).

But before doing any of this you should really look into that plunger, Remove the clutch lever and make sure it's there.

[ai4px]

Let me try to help one more time.... can you roll start it? Does the starter work in neutral?

[aspenratt07]

Originally Posted by ai4px

Let me try to help one more time.... can you roll start it? Does the starter work in neutral?

I cannot roll it myself with my short legs to roll start it, and wichita has a serious lack of hills.

I want to thank everyone who has given me such good ideas, it's not fixed yet by any means but I wanted to thank everyone anyway. I am gonna watch that YouTube video as soon as I get home from work and hopefully it will give me more good ideas. Tomorrow I am gonna test my starter solenoid and hopefully that will be it once they are fairly cheap to replace. I will keep everyone updated.

[quarterliter]

You dont really need a hill or long legs to bump start............just the ability to run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jh2wIGTFLA

[aspenratt07]

Originally Posted by quarterliter

You dont really need a hill or long legs to bump start............just the ability to run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jh2wIGTFLA

I don't think I would be able to do that either, I have very little upper body strength, I can barely even push it from the side and even that is very slow.

[aspenratt07]

I found out what was wrong with my bike, it was the starter solenoid. I figured it out after the simple paper clip test. Now all I gotta do is buy a new one, which I found on ebay $10. Thank you everyone for all of your help, it was much appreciated. Thank you!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by aspenratt07

...........Thank you everyone for all of your help, it was much appreciated. Thank you!

You are welcome

[aspenratt07]

Well, it wasn't as simple as I thought. I replaced the starter solenoid and it didn't fix the problem. And using a test light I tested the starter/kill switches and all check out alright. So if anyone has some new ideas then I am more than open, nice weather has finally arrived and I am aching to get out and ride again.

[pimpybra]

Originally Posted by aspenratt07

Well, it wasn't as simple as I thought. I replaced the starter solenoid and it didn't fix the problem. And using a test light I tested the starter/kill switches and all check out alright. So if anyone has some new ideas then I am more than open, nice weather has finally arrived and I am aching to get out and ride again.

I forget, did you check the starter itself? I had to replace my starter a few weeks ago, but I knew it was bad by directly looking the starter to the battery. I just ran a jumper cable from positive side of battery to the 'output' of the starter solenoid. Yeah, you'll see sparks (and be careful).


I got a new starter off ebay for $30, so that wasn't bad, and it was really easy to replace.

[aspenratt07]

Originally Posted by pimpybra

I forget, did you check the starter itself? I had to replace my starter a few weeks ago, but I knew it was bad by directly looking the starter to the battery. I just ran a jumper cable from positive side of battery to the 'output' of the starter solenoid. Yeah, you'll see sparks (and be careful).


I got a new starter off ebay for $30, so that wasn't bad, and it was really easy to replace.

The starter is fine, cause when I tested my solenoid I touched a paper clip to the two bolts on the solenoid and the motor would crank and even started the bike, that's why I thought the solenoid was bad, so I replaced it, but as I said before it didn't fix the problem. And I believe I tested my switches correctly, cause according to my serious noob knowledge it appeared to test good. If there is anything else I can test with the test light please help me out, or if u have any other ideas. Please and thank you.

[ai4px]

Can you get your bf to help you roll start it?

The only things I can think of that interlock the starter are the clutch switch and neutral switch.

[cuong-nutz]

It's possible the starter solenoid you got is bad as well. Jump it and see. I haven't looked at the schematics but would a faulty neutral position switch prevent it to turn on? Neutral light on?

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by aspenratt07

The starter is fine, cause when I tested my solenoid I touched a paper clip to the two bolts on the solenoid and the motor would crank and even started the bike, that's why I thought the solenoid was bad, so I replaced it, but as I said before it didn't fix the problem. And I believe I tested my switches correctly, cause according to my serious noob knowledge it appeared to test good. If there is anything else I can test with the test light please help me out, or if u have any other ideas. Please and thank you.

Now that you've tested all the switches and put in a new starter, have you checked or replaced the starter relay or the main fuse? (p/n# 27010-1269 SWITCH,MAGNETIC) It's directly connected to where you put the 30 amp main fuse.

If you do not hear a faint clicking noise when pushing the starter button, the relay is defective.
Use the 1 ohm setting on a voltmeter and measure the resistance across the terminals.
If the relay makes multiple clicks and the meter does not read zero, the relay is defective.
If the relay clicks one time and the meter does not read zero, the relay is good. The trouble is in the starter motor or the motor power supply wires.

[Kokosun]

Are you absolutely, positively, definitely sure that it isn't the plunger? The reason that I ask is because I broke the plunger on my bike when I was changing the clutch lever. It's sooooooo easy to do. I was aware of the plunger, and being really careful, but I still managed to break it.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Checkin..._safety_switch

[aspenratt07]

I'm pretty confident that I have finally figured out my problem. It's my clutch safety switch. I knew it was broken off before the bike quit working, so I never thought it could actually be the problem. And when I switched out my levers I took careful notice that it was already broken off and I didn't break it myself. See, when it was broken off by the previous owner there was still a small piece in there that was still engaging the switch allowing me to start the bike and ride. But I guess at some point it jiggled and disengaged the switch causing my problem. But with my trusty paper clip I just pushed it back into place and the bike started cranking. Yay! So I've got a new switch on it's way via snail mail, but luckily in the mean time I can still ride.