How to properly check oil level. Best fuel octane for stock bike

[TheCoolNinja]

Just wondering what's the best way to check oil level. Bought my 12' 250 last week and the previous owner said he did his own oil change beginning of the season. Bike only has 2600miles. When I look at the glass that showes oil it's almost non existent (while on kickstand). If I lean bike to the glass it fills up but stand bike up straight goes down significantly. When is best to check with bike standing in riding position, on kickstand, warmed up, running, not running? Also looking for opinion on best oil to use (weight,brand,blend). Few people posted the T6, then others say 10-40. I ride 45miles one way at nearly 10.5k rpms (65-75 mph). Living in Minnesota mornings are around 60-70F and after noon 80-90F on way home. 5'9 140lbs if that matters lol.

What is best octane fuel to use on a stock bike. I've read 87 and also 91. Just with general knowledge I know high compression Hondas (civics) you want to run higher octane but some people said to run 87 in these bikes. If I remember right they are around 10:1 compression rate so does that require higher octane fuel?


Ps great website!! I've answered most questions I've had just by fumbling around aimlessly. Still learning how to use the website.

[Alex]

Octane thread (the answer is 87)

Oil level (many similar threads)

Main DIY thread

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by Alex

Octane thread (the answer is 87)

Oil level (many similar threads)

Main DIY thread

All of this.

[yenome]

like alex said 87, the oil should be in the middle of the sight glass when the bike is in a full upright riding position. Run the octane the company requires. you can run a sports car on 87 if it isnt tuned for higher gas. some corvettes run 87

[Ralgha]

Honda Civics are tuned (factory) for low octane, even the 1.5L turbo version. Putting higher octane in them provides no benefit, just like our beloved Ninja. I could probably track down the video of the Honda engineer saying this if you don't believe me.

[TheCoolNinja]

Awesome thanks everyone!! Getting oil and filter today! Obviously I've been fooled by a few to believe in buying premium gas. I've heard saves from detonation and well I'd like to avoid that if possible. Back to $5 fill ups 😃

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by TheCoolNinja

Awesome thanks everyone!! Getting oil and filter today! Obviously I've been fooled by a few to believe in buying premium gas. I've heard saves from detonation and well I'd like to avoid that if possible. Back to $5 fill ups ��

Detonation is only a problem if the engine is designed for high octane fuel and you don't use it.

The Ninja 250's are designed for 87 octane fuel, using a higher octane does nothing helpful and make actually make less power.

There are some bikes that are designed for 89 or 91 octane gasoline. The Z-14 manual recommends 90 octane or higher. Go with what the manufacturer recommends in the manual.

[Ralgha]

I do sometimes put premium gas in mine, when the regular has ethanol and the premium doesn't.

[cadd]

Check oil sight glass with bike off and bike straight up and down. I usually check before every ride.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by TheCoolNinja

Also looking for opinion on best oil to use (weight,brand,blend). Few people posted the T6, then others say 10-40. I ride 45miles one way at nearly 10.5k rpms (65-75 mph). Living in Minnesota mornings are around 60-70F and after noon 80-90F on way home.

Per the manual, you need oil rated for API SE/SF/SG, or API SH/SJ/SL plus JASO MA, in 10W-40 weight (possibly adjusted for climate). The newer API standards changed some things for fuel efficiency, so you need the JASO MA (motorcycles with a 4-stroke engine and wet clutch) rating to guarantee it's still got the protection needed for a bike engine. Above ~80°F, the only important weight is the hot one. Any _W-40 will be a 40 weight oil at operating temps. 5W-40 will be thinner at colder temps, which will provide more protection and help it start a bit easier in cold weather. In especially hot regions, 50 may be desired.

Everyone has their favorite oil. Generally speaking, the transmission is hard on the oil, and synthetic holds up better. T6 breaks down a little more quickly than some other synthetics, but otherwise is quite good and very cheap (plus there's almost always a rebate on it). Personally, I prefer to use a cheaper oil and change it more often, so I like the T6.

[TheCoolNinja]

Wow thanks for the input everyone!! I smiled today putting fuel in at $2.12. I plan on changing oil regularly so think I'm going to try the T6. Thanks again for the quick responses from everyone!

[cadd]

I've been using T6 for the past 20,000 miles on the Ninja300. And 3,500 miles on the 2nd gen 250. So far so good.

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by cadd

I've been using T6 for the past 20,000 miles on the Ninja300. And 3,500 miles on the 2nd gen 250. So far so good.

30K miles on my FZ6, 35K miles on my SV1000, no issues.

[redonninrf]

A trick I learned from another rider. It's sometimes awkward holding the bike vertical while kneeling down or bending over to look at the sight glass. Instead, go to an auto parts store and get one of those small inspection mirrors with the telescoping handle. You can then sit on the bike and use the mirror to look at the sight glass.

[TheCoolNinja]

So just picked up some royal purple 10w40. Not sure what the previous owner used before but think it's a bad idea to use that to fill up until I have time to do oil change next weekend?

Also I read the link Alex posted but it said nothing about when to check if cold engine or warmed up engine.


Edit: Nevermins just found another thread that said check when engine is warmed!!

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by TheCoolNinja

So just picked up some royal purple 10w40. Not sure what the previous owner used before but think it's a bad idea to use that to fill up until I have time to do oil change next weekend?

Also I read the link Alex posted but it said nothing about when to check if cold engine or warmed up engine.


Edit: Nevermins just found another thread that said check when engine is warmed!!

Doesn't matter if you check the oil level hot or cold. Just remember to let it sit, engine off, for about 5 minutes before you check it. This lets the oil run back down to the pan to give an accurate level.

[Alex]

Right. But if it's already warm, it doesn't take 5 minutes to stabilize at the right level, it takes only a few moments. The 5 minute rule would be useful for a completely cold engine to make sure the colder/thicker fluid makes its way down.

Some bikes require it to be read when warm or the level shouldn't be trusted at all, no matter how long you wait (An earlier BMW I had was like this). No such weirdness with our relatively simple ninjettes, though.

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by Alex

Right. But if it's already warm, it doesn't take 5 minutes to stabilize at the right level, it takes only a few moments. The 5 minute rule would be useful for a completely cold engine to make sure the colder/thicker fluid makes its way down.

Some bikes require it to be read when warm or the level shouldn't be trusted at all, no matter how long you wait (An earlier BMW I had was like this). No such weirdness with our relatively simple ninjettes, though.

I tell people 5 minutes because, let's face it, if you tell people 1 minute they only wait about 1 second!

But I digress, it doesn't take that long at all.

[Mohawk]

High compression is a misnomer. The static compression ratio is NOT what the bike sees in action. A 12/1 or 14/1 static if configured to run on basic pump gas will both have a dynamic compression ratio around 9-10/1 otherwise they would knock. This is achieved through longer cam durations & more overlap. Just an FYI.

YMMV

[Brother Michigan]

Originally Posted by TheCoolNinja

So just picked up some royal purple 10w40. Not sure what the previous owner used before but think it's a bad idea to use that to fill up until I have time to do oil change next weekend?

That's kind of a tough question, and the answer depends on a few things like how much do you need to top off the oil and is that oil JASO-MA rated? If you only need to top off a few hundred mL, it's probably fine either way, but if you're going to put in any decent amount I'd make sure it has the rating just to prevent and clutch slipping.

[Triple Jim]

Aaron, I ask this to learn, not to discount what you said: Has anyone here experienced clutch slippage with his Ninja 250 because of using current automotive oil instead of MA rated oil?

[Mohawk]

Check the level with bike vertical & when the engine is COLD. If you check when cold & the oil is at the top line on the sight glass then its perfect, so long as its ABOVE the bottom line then its OK. If you know how many miles it takes to get from the top to the bottom, then you should know how often it needs checking.

ANY oil is better than none ! so use what you have to hand. Oil is oil generally, the price often only reflects the saleability of it & not the oils ability. Just remember that NO supermarket makes its oil ! It come in cheap unbranded containers, so no marketing teams salaries to cover, it get sold in large quantities for cheap prices.

So if you follow most manufacturers advice, you should change oil at X miles or EVERY year. Any reasonable quality oil is fine if you ride in temperate climate & DON'T need to change oil more than once a year. If you ride in a HOT environment, then you may want to change the oil more often &/or use a higher quality oil !

As an old guy once told me "you'll do far more harm running without oil than without fuel" think about it !

YMMV

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

Aaron, I ask this to learn, not to discount what you said: Has anyone here experienced clutch slippage with his Ninja 250 because of using current automotive oil instead of MA rated oil?

That's the common concern about using standard auto oils - but it's not the real problem.

Auto oils have changed over the years, with reduced amounts of certain lubricants/additives to extend the life of the emissions systems. The majority of current auto engines are using roller valvetrains which do not require the same amount of lubricants/additives.

Those "Friction Modifiers" in auto oils that can build-up on clutch plates and cause slipping are only present in oils marked "Energy Conserving" - and that's only oils in the 30-grade and under range - so it's not even an issue if you are using a 40-grade oil.

A motorcycle engine benefits from the higher levels of those additives - Zinc and Phosphorus (aka ZDDP) - namely to protect the cams and rockers. ZDDP is sacrificial when needed, protecting the valvetrain from damage before the oil flows.

Diesel oils like Rotella and Delvac are not required to have lower levels of ZDDP, and are a much better choice for a cycle engine. Rotella T6 has been certified JASO-MA for use in wet clutches, but that's really just a formality. According to Shell, all Rotella multigrade oils (T, T5, T6, etc) use the same additive package, so that would mean they all are safe - just not "certified".

Bottom line - don't use any regular auto oil. Use a motorcycle-specific or diesel oil instead.

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by Mohawk

Just remember that NO supermarket makes its oil ! It come in cheap unbranded containers, so no marketing teams salaries to cover, it get sold in large quantities for cheap prices.

Very true. There are not many oil manufacturers, but tons of brands. I have a 5 gallon bucket of generic 2-stroke oil I bought from a chain saw and tree cutting equipment supplier. I compared it to a small container of expensive name brand chain saw oil, and it's the same color, feel, smell, and as near as I can tell, viscosity. I'd be really surprised if the name brand supplier doesn't buy 55 gallon drums of this stuff and put it in little containers with its name on them. Walmart 2-stroke oil also has these same properties, and is sold for outboard motors.

[Brother Michigan]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

Aaron, I ask this to learn, not to discount what you said: Has anyone here experienced clutch slippage with his Ninja 250 because of using current automotive oil instead of MA rated oil?

Originally Posted by jkv45

That's the common concern about using standard auto oils - but it's not the real problem.

Auto oils have changed over the years, with reduced amounts of certain lubricants/additives to extend the life of the emissions systems. The majority of current auto engines are using roller valvetrains which do not require the same amount of lubricants/additives.

Those "Friction Modifiers" in auto oils that can build-up on clutch plates and cause slipping are only present in oiks marked "Energy Conserving" - and that's only oils in the 30-grade and under range - so it's not even an issue if you are using a 40-grade oil.

A motorcycle engine benefits from the higher levels of those additives - Zinc and Phosphorus (aka ZDDP) - namely to protect the cams and rockers. ZDDP is sacrificial when needed, protecting the valavetrain from damage before the oil flows.

Diesel oils like Rotella and Delvac are not required to have lower levels of ZDDP, and are a much better choice for a cycle engine. Rotella T6 has been certified JASO-MA for use in wet clutches, but that's really just a formality. According to Shell, all Rotella multigrade oils (T, T5, T6, etc) use the same additive package, so that would mean they all are safe - just not "certified".

Bottom line - don't use any regular auto oil. Use a motorcycle-specific or diesel oil instead.

Jay's response covers things pretty well (though I personally haven't heard about the restriction to 30 weights and below), and I have only heard anecdotal reports of clutch slipping because of using the wrong oil, but my feeling with it is I'd rather be safe than sorry. Even if you go out and buy "motorcycle specific" oils (not just oils with the JASO-MA rating), our bikes take so little oil as to make the cost inconsequential, so there's no reason to not use the "correct" oil.

[Triple Jim]

A valid point, although if I put overly slippery oil in mine and noticed clutch slippage, I'd just drain it and put the correct oil in.

Maybe I'll be a test subject.

[blueklr]

As for fuel, 87 is the correct answer for North America, but if you're in some other countries (Australia for example) where they state their Octane ratings differently, the answer is 91 RON.
As for oil, since our Ninjette is ridden by my daughter who just moved out of province, gets relatively low use and it'll follow her next year where I won't be around to service it, I always run a good Synthetic like Amsoil or Mobil 1 10W40 since it means fewer oil changes, gives better protection and doesn't break down as fast as conventional oils do. She doesn't do her own work so long lasting, and good protection with all of her fluids is critical.