Source for Kawasaki EFI

[Outlander Systems]

I would like the Kawasaki OEM parts to do an EFI conversion on my '11 carb'd bike.

I have had absolutely ZERO luck in finding an overseas wrecked engine. On top of that I've already got too much time and money in my bike as it is...I am keeping her for the long haul.

Currently I am working on a ZX6R rear end swap...

The entire reason I am doing the EFI conversion is as a means to get this pony turbo'd. Yes, I said it. Could I buy a 600? Yes. Do I want to? No.

There is something thoroughly badass about hot-rodding and tricking out this bike. I'd ultimately like to fire up the turbo and play with the gearing and see if I can get the 0-100 on this bike to be scary.

Mwahaha. Mwa ha ha ha haa.

And before I get the "just get a 600" hate. I've been there and done that. My SV650 was two tons of fun, but not nearly as much fun as tricking out and riding my little scoot.

[Jiggles]

Impossibly ridiculous project? I like it! Welcome to the Club!

Prepare to be Flamed.

[Outlander Systems]

Dude, I am ready for the hate. I would rather have a unique 250 than a factory GSX5000R. That's just me.

I love custom projects.

Dude, Operation: Deathproof is awesome. I don't care if everyone thinks it's ridiculous, I think making a rugged monster of a bike is cool. You should look into Dual Sport tyres and possibly conjuring up a way to slam some run flats on that hoss.

[Cuongism]

Only OEM or is an aftermarket efi kit ok?

http://www.ecotrons.com/Kawasaki_Nin...c_EFI_kit.html

[Outlander Systems]

I am familiar with that unit, but I would *prefer* to source Kawasaki's OEM parts and team 'em up with the Power Commander made for the Euro bikes. I'm concerned about compatibility issues with the PC and the non-OEM EFI parts, unless someone can convince me why I shouldn't be....

I'd order that kit like yesterday I'd I knew I could run it with no issues with the PC. On top of that, I would assume I'd have a better wealth of knowledge available with the OEM EFI should I encounter any error messages or issues.

[Jiggles]

If I were you I would find a way to slap a 500cc engine in there and surprise the crap out of people with your little 250 :P

How much power do you expect to gain from a turbo?

[Outlander Systems]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

If I were you I would find a way to slap a 500cc engine in there and surprise the crap out of people with your little 250 :P

How much power do you expect to gain from a turbo?

My God, if I don't get up to 50 ponies total with the addition of the turbo I need to blow the bike up now.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Outlander Systems

My God, if I don't get up to 50 ponies total with the addition of the turbo I need to blow the bike up now.

Add nitrous haha

[gadgetguy1288]

Im also interested in finding an oem system to do a conversion just as something to do. I dont want a bigger bike and dont see myself ever getting rid of this bike.

ETA: has anyone checked with some of the overseas parts suppliers? Maybe one of them has a parts diagram or something that we can use to figure out what parts would be needed.

[Outlander Systems]

Originally Posted by gadgetguy1288

Im also interested in finding an oem system to do a conversion just as something to do. I dont want a bigger bike and dont see myself ever getting rid of this bike.

ETA: has anyone checked with some of the overseas parts suppliers? Maybe one of them has a parts diagram or something that we can use to figure out what parts would be needed.

This is my sentiments exactly. I've had four EX250s and my '11 250R. I've had this bike in one way or another in '97.

To say I love small displacement bikes is a massive understatement.

Every other bike I've had that is 500cc and above just isn't as fun.

I'm in this for the long haul, so I might as well hook my baby up right. Overseas suppliers might be the best bet...

The question is, what individual parts would we need?

[gadgetguy1288]

I haven't even looked for any sites yet so I don't even know where to start. maybe one of the guys from a country where FI bikes are sold can give us a clue where to start.

I think I've also seen a few guy/gals on here that are military overseas as well, maybe they could talk to a dealer for us and get a parts list or something like that of what we would need.

[Outlander Systems]

Originally Posted by gadgetguy1288

I haven't even looked for any sites yet so I don't even know where to start. maybe one of the guys from a country where FI bikes are sold can give us a clue where to start.

I think I've also seen a few guy/gals on here that are military overseas as well, maybe they could talk to a dealer for us and get a parts list or something like that of what we would need.

If anyone would know, it would be someone on here. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I'm interested in the PnP kit as well, but I'm hesitant at the same time...

[Gorilla25]

this should be interesting ....

[Domagoj]

Hehm...
I won't pretend to understand which part exactly do you need, but I live in Europe, and I can check for pricing and availability of any oem Kawasaki parts (from dealership).
However, be warned: prices for ALL bike parts in Europe are close to double compared to US prices.

If you are looking for used parts, (fuel injected engine), that's somewhat difficult. Ninja 250r is rare bike here, and used parts are incredibly hard to get.

[gadgetguy1288]

Originally Posted by Domagoj

Hehm...
I won't pretend to understand which part exactly do you need, but I live in Europe, and I can check for pricing and availability of any oem Kawasaki parts (from dealership).
However, be warned: prices for ALL bike parts in Europe are close to double compared to US prices.

If you are looking for used parts, (fuel injected engine), that's somewhat difficult. Ninja 250r is rare bike here, and used parts are incredibly hard to get.

Do you know of any websites similar to CheapCycleParts.com that would show any kind of parts diagrams?

I wouldnt think it would be very difficult to look at a diagram and figure out what we need.

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by Outlander Systems

I'd order that kit like yesterday I'd I knew I could run it with no issues with the PC. On top of that, I would assume I'd have a better wealth of knowledge available with the OEM EFI should I encounter any error messages or issues.

You change/mod the maps in the ecm. PC's are only for oem crap you cant flash.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Domagoj

Hehm...
I won't pretend to understand which part exactly do you need, but I live in Europe, and I can check for pricing and availability of any oem Kawasaki parts (from dealership).
However, be warned: prices for ALL bike parts in Europe are close to double compared to US prices.

If you are looking for used parts, (fuel injected engine), that's somewhat difficult. Ninja 250r is rare bike here, and used parts are incredibly hard to get.

Luckily there are many EU countries with graduated licensing that makes the 250R quite common and popular.

[Outlander Systems]

Originally Posted by HKr1

You change/mod the maps in the ecm. PC's are only for oem crap you cant flash.

So, what's your take on the EFI kit? Bear in mind it's just a means and turbo is the end.

[rusninja]

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...t=11552&page=4 not turbo but shoot look almost 40 hp

[Outlander Systems]

Originally Posted by rusninja

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...t=11552&page=4 not turbo but shoot look almost 40 hp

I've been following Wayan's post religiously. The guy that's been doing the tuning on my bike has a boatload of experience with turbos on bikes, so that's the route I am going. I'm also interested in doing Wayans mods possibly down the road in addition to the turbo. I know I will have to lower my compression.

Anyone know if anyone makes titanium valves for our bikes?

[Racer x]

There is a company in Florida that will make them. I will get the info for that. Also contact me before you have head gaskets made.I have paid the R and D charge to have copper head gaskets made. That will save you about 100 dollarsor so. As for compression and turbo. Talk to Brian at JE Pistons. They will make what ever you need.

[akima]

All the 250Rs sold in England have EFI. I'll ask around and find out what people think. I'm friendly with a guy who owns a near by Kawasaki shop. He's a mechanic there too. He'll probably have some thoughts to share.

[rusninja]

very interesting thread!

[Outlander Systems]

Originally Posted by Racer x

There is a company in Florida that will make them. I will get the info for that. Also contact me before you have head gaskets made.I have paid the R and D charge to have copper head gaskets made. That will save you about 100 dollarsor so. As for compression and turbo. Talk to Brian at JE Pistons. They will make what ever you need.

You, Sir are awesome. And I definitely appreciate it.

Right now I am doing the ZX6R rear end swap. Once that's wrapped up, it's on to gathering the parts for the EFI conversion, then to the turbo.

Just for the party of it I got multiple quotes on the insurance for a 2011 ZX6R this morning. The price of these mods doesn't seem bad anymore at all.

I am hoping to get the parts for the EFI conversion for $1200 or less. We'll see...

Originally Posted by akima

All the 250Rs sold in England have EFI. I'll ask around and find out what people think. I'm friendly with a guy who owns a near by Kawasaki shop. He's a mechanic there too. He'll probably have some thoughts to share.

Thanks! That would be glorious. I'd really line to do this with OEM parts if possible.

[gt_turbo]

sounds like a kewl project. are you going to upgrade the forks as well? would like pretty odd with a 110 in the front and a 180 in the back.

[Outlander Systems]

Originally Posted by gt_turbo

sounds like a kewl project. are you going to upgrade the forks as well? would like pretty odd with a 110 in the front and a 180 in the back.

I'm already rockin' a 120 on the front; same as the ZX6R. With my dropped front end, the 120 made it way less squirrely.

[sachinzeus]

Originally Posted by Outlander Systems

I would like the Kawasaki OEM parts to do an EFI conversion on my '11 carb'd bike.

I have had absolutely ZERO luck in finding an overseas wrecked engine. On top of that I've already got too much time and money in my bike as it is...I am keeping her for the long haul.

Currently I am working on a ZX6R rear end swap...

The entire reason I am doing the EFI conversion is as a means to get this pony turbo'd. Yes, I said it. Could I buy a 600? Yes. Do I want to? No.

There is something thoroughly badass about hot-rodding and tricking out this bike. I'd ultimately like to fire up the turbo and play with the gearing and see if I can get the 0-100 on this bike to be scary.

Mwahaha. Mwa ha ha ha haa.

And before I get the "just get a 600" hate. I've been there and done that. My SV650 was two tons of fun, but not nearly as much fun as tricking out and riding my little scoot.

how would you turbo it? I have the EFI version and I am interested.

[sachinzeus]

Originally Posted by Outlander Systems

I'm already rockin' a 120 on the front; same as the ZX6R. With my dropped front end, the 120 made it way less squirrely.

what would you be losing/gaining on converting to 120 fronts and 140 rears?

increased traction and reduced acceleration?

[gt_turbo]

Originally Posted by sachinzeus

how would you turbo it? I have the EFI version and I am interested.

are you sure? North America only has carbed version unless you imported yours.

[greg737]

What parts would you need from the OEM parts bin?

You'll need the entire wiring harness to start with (FI bikes have way more wiring than carb bikes).

You'll need the entire intake tract: Air box and Throttlebody are the main parts but there's also all the little bits that are directly associated with it like the air temp sensor, the Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor, various connecting tubes.

You'll also have to get the entire ignition system, including the Rotor (because it has a different "lug pattern" on it) and possibly the Variable Reluctor sensor that reads the square metal bumps on the Rotor. The Variable Reluctor sensor sends this raw data from the Rotor to the ignition control portion of the bike's ECU. The ECU decodes the information and can then determine when to fire the spark plugs and squirt fuel through the injectors.

You'll need the OEM O2 sensor and you'll have to place it in exactly the same spot as the OEM exhaust had it because the whole system is tuned around where it's sensors are located. Might actually be better to just get the OEM FI exhaust.

There's more but my flight to Dallas is about to board.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by gt_turbo

are you sure? North America only has carbed version unless you imported yours.

Originally Posted by sachinzeus

You are correct. I have my ninjette back in India where Kawasaki sells the European version.

[greg737]

If all you wanted to do to the bike was install fuel injection then it might make sense to try and get all the OEM bits and pieces from Europe and install them on your motorcycle. But only if price wasn't an issue for you, or if you had a real hook-up for cheap parts from an FI bike.

But wanting to turbocharge it changes everything. The variables become much more substantial/extreme in a turbo setup and the OEM system wasn't designed to cope with this. I think that as you learn more about what turbocharging changes/demands you'll come to realize that the OEM FI setup (especially the stock EX-250 FI ECU) just isn't up to the task, not flexible enough, not programmable enough, no turbo-specific functions/considerations.

[Outlander Systems]

Originally Posted by greg737

If all you wanted to do to the bike was install fuel injection then it might make sense to try and get all the OEM bits and pieces from Europe and install them on your motorcycle. But only if price wasn't an issue for you, or if you had a real hook-up for cheap parts from an FI bike.

But wanting to turbocharge it changes everything. The variables become much more substantial/extreme in a turbo setup and the OEM system wasn't designed to cope with this. I think that as you learn more about what turbocharging changes/demands you'll come to realize that the OEM FI setup (especially the stock EX-250 FI ECU) just isn't up to the task, not flexible enough, not programmable enough, no turbo-specific functions/considerations.

What about the Ecotrons aftermarket FI setup? If I'm tracking it correctly, it looks to be setup for some programability...

[greg737]

What about the Ecotrons aftermarket FI setup? If I'm tracking it correctly, it looks to be setup for some programability...

I haven't done any research on the Ecotrons kit, but I think it was packaged and programmed with a naturally aspirated EX-250 in mind. I don't think it has options for the things a turbo bike needs like a 3-bar MAP sensor or the ability to set a turbo-specific ignition timing curve (turbo ignition timing is a real brain-busting exercise).

My fuel injection conversion is based around a Microsquirt ECU. The Microsquirt has firmware loads that can handle all the programming options you need for a turbo installation. Development of options and improvements in the Mega/Microsquirt software/firmware is ongoing. You can get answers straight from the guys who are writing/developing it. There's also a very easy to use and well supported tuning software package called TunerStudioMS and, as with the Mega/Microsquirt stuff, the guy who developed and supports it (Phil Tobin) is available online almost every day of the year.

When I decided to do my fuel injection project I went to the Megasquirt/Microsquirt websites and started reading and learning. You won't believe the amount of information and help available over there. For just about anything you can think up there's somebody on those sites who's done it or they've done something very similar. There's a full-up College Graduate Degree worth of information on those websites.

[Racer x]

With out trying to throw this thread off track. The stock fI system is lacking a major item . That is the ability to retard the ignition timing as the pressure in the manifold builds. There are a milllion other things also. . But you need microsquirt electronics. The stock throttle body and injectors will work . But there is better and easyer ways to do that also.But it ain't cheap.

[k12.usmc]

Hey Mike, I finally got my bike running this evening. Need to wait on the 650r throttle cable set I ordered so I can ride her. But from the looks of it shes ready. The kit is really simple if you take the time to research, research, research everything you could possibly need to know about the entire efi system. Did I mention that you need to research everything.

I ran into alot of stupid errors on my part. Like trying to use the stock cables which were too short and caused the butterfly valves to be open ever so slightly. The bike refused to start and the one time it did, the engine reving all over the place. If u wanna turbo the bike u can do so with ecotrons too. I am gonna post up a diy and a review video once i get her on the road and install the o2 sensors. If u wanna check her out, im hopeful gonna bring her by the Varsity in Jan for bike night, wont be able to make tomorrows. Il probably have the full Area P exhaust installed by then too.

The software runs on a pc no problem. It does have a steep learning curve but once u master it you will be able to do things most ppl wont be able to.

[akima]

Originally Posted by k12.usmc

Hey Mike, I finally got my bike running this evening. Need to wait on the 650r throttle cable set I ordered so I can ride her. But from the looks of it shes ready. The kit is really simple if you take the time to research, research, research everything you could possibly need to know about the entire efi system. Did I mention that you need to research everything.

I ran into alot of stupid errors on my part. Like trying to use the stock cables which were too short and caused the butterfly valves to be open ever so slightly. The bike refused to start and the one time it did, the engine reving all over the place. If u wanna turbo the bike u can do so with ecotrons too. I am gonna post up a diy and a review video once i get her on the road and install the o2 sensors. If u wanna check her out, im hopeful gonna bring her by the Varsity in Jan for bike night, wont be able to make tomorrows. Il probably have the full Area P exhaust installed by then too.

The software runs on a pc no problem. It does have a steep learning curve but once u master it you will be able to do things most ppl wont be able to.

Wow. That's impressive.

You should update your "Motorcycle(s):" info say "2008 Ninja 250r EFI-conversion"! You've got quite a unique bike there now. I wonder if your EFI system has/can-have any benefit over the stock EFI system.

[greg737]

Originally Posted by k12.usmc

Hey Mike, I finally got my bike running this evening. Need to wait on the 650r throttle cable set I ordered so I can ride her. But from the looks of it shes ready. The kit is really simple if you take the time to research, research, research everything you could possibly need to know about the entire efi system. Did I mention that you need to research everything.

I ran into alot of stupid errors on my part. Like trying to use the stock cables which were too short and caused the butterfly valves to be open ever so slightly. The bike refused to start and the one time it did, the engine reving all over the place. If u wanna turbo the bike u can do so with ecotrons too. I am gonna post up a diy and a review video once i get her on the road and install the o2 sensors. If u wanna check her out, im hopeful gonna bring her by the Varsity in Jan for bike night, wont be able to make tomorrows. Il probably have the full Area P exhaust installed by then too.

The software runs on a pc no problem. It does have a steep learning curve but once u master it you will be able to do things most ppl wont be able to.

Here's a question for you: How did you set up the fuel system on your Ecotrons conversion? More specifically, I'd like to hear how you plumbed the fuel return line to your fuel tank?

Do you have a California-emissions bike? If you do then I'd guess you routed your fuel return line to one of the extra ports that the Cali fuel tank has, but if you don't have a Cali-emissions bike (like Forbitel, the original poster on this thread) did you drill a hole in your fuel tank like he did?

I ask because drilling a hole in the bottom of your fuel tank seems like a risky thing to me. It's definitely the messiest looking part of Forbitel's installation and besides that fuel tanks are pretty thin and delicate things and doing this seems like it has the potential to leak and rust.

Here's something I noticed and used on my EFI conversion

The EX-250's petcock is a vacuum type because the carb bike needs that vacuum cutoff, but a fuel injected bike doesn't need the petcock to close every time the engine stops. I took my petcock apart and removed the vacuum diaphram. Removing the petcock diaphram instantly transforms the petcock's vacuum line into a fuel line, which I used on my "returnless" system for fuel pump vapor/bubble relief.

As I just mentioned, my "one of" EFI system is "returnless" so the fuel pump doesn't return its excess flow back to the tank like the Ecotrons kit does.

But on a system like your Ecotrons kit with it's smaller, lower-volume fuel pump, it might be that you could just hook the return line from the fuel pressure regulator (and the vapor/bubble line from the fuel pump) to the petcock's ex-vacuum line after you remove the petcock diaphram. The petcock's vacuum line is pretty small diameter so you'd have to do some testing to see if it's large enough to handle the volume that needs to be recirculated in the Ecotrons system. But if the petcock's ex-vacuum line can handle the return flow then you've got a real nice solution to the fuel return problem.

I mention this because I'd do just about anything to avoid cutting a hole in my tank. And being able to convert the petcock and simply use it for the return would be very clean and quick for the kit install.

[k12.usmc]

Originally Posted by greg737

Here's a question for you: How did you set up the fuel system on your Ecotrons conversion? More specifically, I'd like to hear how you plumbed the fuel return line to your fuel tank?

Do you have a California-emissions bike? If you do then I'd guess you routed your fuel return line to one of the extra ports that the Cali fuel tank has, but if you don't have a Cali-emissions bike (like Forbitel, the original poster on this thread) did you drill a hole in your fuel tank like he did?

I actually went a completely different route. I kinda wish I had tried the petcock mod but its too late now. I was considering getting the petcock diwhiteii got, but that was too expensive ($100 - I wanna get her working first). Because I was going to keep her for the long haul and be her only rider, I decided I could get rid of the overflow hose and just not fill her up all the way. I removed the gas cap and drilled a hole inside the overflow hole at an angle so it would make a wide enough opening. I wasn't sure if it would still go over so I drilled another one near it on the top but it was not needed. I am going to try to cap both of them off because the gas cap is not weather sealed so if it rains water can seep around the outside of the cap.

My reason for converting to EFI was not really for performance but safety. I ride her through downtown Atlanta and for one, the roads are sh*t (seriously, I should probably ride an F650GS) and two, people in Atlanta drive with no sense whatsoever (I have had two people literally stop side by side in their cars and have a discussion right before an intersection on a major road, WTF!). Also this fall, the weather has been far from consistent (We have had random weeks of sudden cold for a week or two right in the middle of the season). The 250r is an awesome bike but she hates cold and lets you know. What I wanted was instant throttle response and year round ride-ability.

[Jiggles]

Mike, I've decided to convert my bike to EFI. Perhaps we can get a group buy going????