Speeding ticket -- advice requested.

[corksil]

[Redacted]

[MrAtom]

[Redacted]

[Alex]

You didn't open with "I pay your salary!", did you?

I've found slowing down on public roads lowers the chances of a speeding ticket. Of the ones that still happen (rarely), figure out the best way to handle them in your state. Can you take traffic school to remove the points / insurance bump? I wouldn't have high hopes representing yourself in traffic school if there was nothing wrong with the cite.

[MrAtom]

Originally Posted by Alex

I've found slowing down on public roads lowers the chances of a speeding ticket.

(This is mostly in my car)

I never understood why people regularly speed. I always just do the speed limit unless there aren't any cops and I feel like going fast. In fact, one time, I was driving home from school on the highway, and I decided I was just gonna take it easy and do 45 instead of 65 because there was no traffic behind me. I got there at about the same time, and I'd noticed I'd saved a considerable amount of fuel. Normally, I see a decent bite taken out of my fuel gauge. This time, it was barely noticeable. Everyone should just take it easy and stop being in such a hurry all the time

[Ninjinsky]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

(This is mostly in my car)
I never understood why people regularly speed.

Because in many places the limits are set unrealistically low. Many towns hereabouts are now setting up 20mph zones with cameras. It's like walking with your laces ties together, unnaturally slow and balks against natural flow in driving. That's why.

[ally99]

+1 - The speed limits are set lower than they should be as a way to generate revenue by catching folks "speeding". Speed limits should be flexible with the time of day....I75 in Atlanta in high traffic should be 55, but a 6-lane interstate should not be 55mph on an early Sunday morning, for example.

[Baron]

I've never been pulled over so I can't say that I understand the frustration but here're my thoughts on it.

Regarding being pulled over :-
I admit it, I'm a very passively confrontational. I'm one of the guys who if pulled over for the wrong reason and being talked to like that would call 911 and tell them that I'm being harassed by a police officer or would at least ask for his badge number.....or so I thought. After talking to a lot of police officers, a lot of other riders, I've changed my approach. Now I'd just stay calm, as hard as that maybe, take the ticket and appeal it in court.

This is also the reason why I am for every rider to have some sort of an action camera setup.....not to mention if you happen to see a female rider on the road riding infront of you...wel.....yea yea yea...
Also I heard this one story[I don't know if it's true or not] where a rider was pulled over by not one but three or four cruizers and the one cop who was talking to him was...well...more or less like the one you described. If in a situation like this just ask to talk to another officer. Chances are that there might be a supervisor among them...again, not that I have been in a situation like this but just in case.

Regarding going to court:-
I'd suggest sticking to the case at hand, do not deviate from the speeding charges. I know you are frustrated about your situation and with the condition of the road and city as such but try not deviating from the topic. Stay on point, tell the facts as they are, think logically and do not lose your temper.

But those are just my views on it. Whatever happens, good luck.

[alex.s]

eat the ticket.

then put on your nicest ****-eating smile and call up the local police station the officer was from and file a complaint against him. state in your nicest, prettiest english how he was insulting and rude and told you how you made the wrong life choices. talk about how he pulled you off your motorcycle to pat you down for no reason in front of your mother who was crying because she thought you were going to be murdered by senseless police.

what i'm getting at is even if you're an asshole, there is no valid reason for a police officer to tell you what to ride. or to go on some personal vendetta ramble about how bikes are a problem. tell you to slow down sure. but not ride a motorcycle? that's called a prejudice cop and he should have a complaint filed against him.

especially if he actually called you stupid. that's flat out disrespectful. if a cop ever tells you that you're stupid, do your best to piss them off as much as possible. there is a certain standard that law enforcement is held to. calling someone you are pulling over stupid violates that standard. and it makes all cops look like **** because one cop lost his cool

[Worldtraveller]

Originally Posted by alex.s

eat the ticket.

then put on your nicest ****-eating smile and call up the local police station the officer was from and file a complaint against him. state in your nicest, prettiest english how he was insulting and rude and told you how you made the wrong life choices. talk about how he pulled you off your motorcycle to pat you down for no reason in front of your mother who was crying because she thought you were going to be murdered by senseless police.

This is actually great advice.

what i'm getting at is even if you're an asshole, there is no valid reason for a police officer to tell you what to ride. or to go on some personal vendetta ramble about how bikes are a problem. tell you to slow down sure. but not ride a motorcycle? that's called a prejudice cop and he should have a complaint filed against him.

especially if he actually called you stupid. that's flat out disrespectful. if a cop ever tells you that you're stupid, do your best to piss them off as much as possible. there is a certain standard that law enforcement is held to. calling someone you are pulling over stupid violates that standard. and it makes all cops look like **** because one cop lost his cool

Most cops are assholes. Few of them are decent human beings.

Just remember, though, they are armed assholes, so be nice to their face.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by alex.s

if a cop ever tells you that you're stupid, do your best to piss them off as much as possible.

This has got to be the worst advice ever.

Have you watched even one episode of COPS?

Don't piss off a cop. You will NOT win.

You have to look at any encounter with the police from the officer's point of view. They are interested in two things, and two things only:

1) Going home alive.
2) Reducing the level of crap they have to deal with, whether it's paperwork, supervisor pressure (e.g. issue more tickets) or people getting in their face.

They do NOT care about justice, guilt, fairness or the story behind the situation they're dealing with. Not one tiny little bit. What they want is order and no hassles.

They are not out to get you. They are not out to make your life miserable. They're just doing a sh*tty job where they have to deal with sh*tty people all day long, and oh by the way, put their lives at risk on a routine basis. So don't be one of those sh*tty people.

The more you do to make the cop's life easier, the better off you'll be. So shut the eff up, don't challenge the cop, be polite, take the ticket, and go fight it in court LATER if you feel you must.

PS: A lot of people are assholes. There is no group of people anywhere on the planet who are all, or even mostly, assholes. Bringing a "this cop is most likely an asshole" attitude to an encounter is a poor choice. A REALLY poor choice.

[alex.s]

i have extended family and family friends who are sheriff deps, and some friends who are police. so i know for a fact there are very reasonable police out there. but there are some real douchebags out there too.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by adouglas

You have to look at any encounter with the police from the officer's point of view. They are interested in two things, and two things only:

1) Going home alive.
2) Reducing the level of crap they have to deal with, whether it's paperwork, supervisor pressure (e.g. issue more tickets) or people getting in their face.

when you see every traffic stop as happening one of two ways, either going home in a body bag, or "getting the bad guy what for" then you are going to have a bad time. this is called a bad cop. being terrified for your life in every situation leads you to make the kind of decisions you make when you are scared for your life. as in- life changing decisions. as in, shooting some guy for basically no reason because you put yourself in a life-threatening situation with your own prejudice by thinking everyone is out to kill you.

also, not writing a ticket in the first place means less paperwork. so the cop has more incentive to simply not write the ticket. the only reason they have to write a ticket for some random speeder that isn't being dangerous is implied quotas. a lot of people view them as this terrible thing but they aren't really that bad when you think of the alternatives (would decay into basically no speed inforcement unless it was dangerous)

[alex.s]

don't get me wrong. if i do something wrong, i will accept my punishment if caught.

but having seen both sides, i can say it takes two to tango. nice people who become cops don't go around telling people how they've made the wrong life decisions, or tell someone something they do is "stupid". any experienced cop knows telling someone they are stupid is a oneway ticket to pissed-off-ville. so either the cop was new, stupid or intentionally trying to ryle him up. any of the above options are not acceptable excuses for calling someone you pulled over names. even if they're an asshole.

[250rr]

Originally Posted by Ninjinsky

Because in many places the limits are set unrealistically low. Many towns hereabouts are now setting up 20mph zones with cameras. It's like walking with your laces ties together, unnaturally slow and balks against natural flow in driving. That's why.

So true. When you drive I 84 in eastern Oregon where you can literally see down the road for 15+ miles in either direction the speed limit is 65. Virtually everyone does 80 mph, because that is a reasonable speed for the area. The cops leave you alone because they understand this. That is, until you look at one wrong or they don't like your 'hoodlum bike'. Then they can use the excuse of 'speeding' to pull you over.

When you get to the Idaho border, the speed limit magically increases to 80 mph. By and large no one increases their speed. Same 80 mph.

In this scenario, the problem isn't with the drivers. They are acting reasonably in each situation. The problem is we have stopped allowing traffic engineers to set the the speed limits based on reason and decades of research and have adopted a much more arbitrary and unfair approach.

[Hero Danny]

Just take it to court, half the time the cop doesn't even show up.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by 250rr

So true. When you drive I 84 in eastern Oregon where you can literally see down the road for 15+ miles in either direction the speed limit is 65. Virtually everyone does 80 mph, because that is a reasonable speed for the area. The cops leave you alone because they understand this. That is, until you look at one wrong or they don't like your 'hoodlum bike'. Then they can use the excuse of 'speeding' to pull you over.

When you get to the Idaho border, the speed limit magically increases to 80 mph. By and large no one increases their speed. Same 80 mph.

In this scenario, the problem isn't with the drivers. They are acting reasonably in each situation. The problem is we have stopped allowing traffic engineers to set the the speed limits based on reason and decades of research and have adopted a much more arbitrary and unfair approach.

you'll find this interesting maybe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...imum_Speed_Law

[Sirref]

The law is the law, if you're guilty you're guilty. It doesn't matter if the officer is a douchebag if you really were speeding then you are still legally eligible for the ticket. Also going off of your response/vent it's likely that you may have helped instigate the officer to cause the officer to act unreasonably.

[250rr]

Originally Posted by alex.s

you'll find this interesting maybe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...imum_Speed_Law

Very interesting. I was around for the double nickel days. 55 mph from here to Southern CA. Those were the days when literally 90% of the citizens broke the speeding laws.

[guambra2001]

Tickets suck, that’s for sure; however based from your post, you didn't actually state any of the facts that led you to get a ticket in the first place.

Were you actually speeding? If so, how fast and what was the traffic surrounding you? What did the officer use to calculate your speed? LiDAR or Radar technology? If you do a simple Google search to learn ways to fight a ticket might be the right solution.

From my experience, at the scene of the incident, be as forgettable as possible, the only caveat to this would be if something obviously shady is going on... You will have your day in court and if the officer can't even remember you, which is very likely, you have a much better chance to win.

I'm a cop for the Air Force, and while in my base, we can only issue DD Form 1408, which is essentially an internal ticket, doesn’t count towards actual revenue or insurance, I encounter a lot of what you were saying. I can certainly agree with you on the fact that there are many douche cops, but I guarantee you they are in the minority. Remember YOU were the one that led that officer to stop you based on your actions, so in turn unless there was no actual probable cause to stop you, it’s your fault. Remember be forgettable and act like an adult, and more than likely your outcome will be favorable to you.

[agentbad]

I got pulled for waving at a cop and he told me he couldn't see my inspection which was BS then we chatted about bikes and he didn't even check my license.

[oroboros]

got pulled over on us129 not even in the twisties. By the end of the conversation the cop was interested in buying a 250 and gave me a warning. Being a local in tourist trap helped.

I remember back in the olden days when we had driver ed, there was a movie they showed with motorcycle cops. I forget if it was in LA or Chicago...but the point was they had almost no crashes and were safer than the cops in cages.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by oroboros

got pulled over on us129 not even in the twisties. By the end of the conversation the cop was interested in buying a 250 and gave me a warning. Being a local in tourist trap helped.

I remember back in the olden days when we had driver ed, there was a movie they showed with motorcycle cops. I forget if it was in LA or Chicago...but the point was they had almost no crashes and were safer than the cops in cages.

[cbinker]

what does running a legitimate hauling business have to do with speeding on a motorcycle?

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by cbinker

what does running a legitimate hauling business have to do with speeding on a motorcycle?

a ticket on a bike raises the insurance cost for his "legitimate hauling business" basically it means the ticket is more of a pain in the ass for him rather than a reason why he wouldn't deserve one if he were speeding.

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by Sirref

a ticket on a bike raises the insurance cost for his "legitimate hauling business" basically it means the ticket is more of a pain in the ass for him rather than a reason why he wouldn't deserve one if he were speeding.

so basically if you make a living driving, you shouldn't be speeding on a motorcycle.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by cbinker

so basically if you make a living driving, you shouldn't be speeding on a motorcycle.

pretty much

besides you can only feel real speed at the track anyway. Sure you can fly down public roads but it's nowhere near as satisfying.

[corksil]

[Redacted]

[Xtina]

Op seems to be a bit of a.. well you know

[Ninjinsky]

Originally Posted by 250rr

Very interesting. I was around for the double nickel days. 55 mph from here to Southern CA. Those were the days when literally 90% of the citizens broke the speeding laws.

Was 55 Carters idea ?

anyway checked your avatar (aviatar) and found these tints
http://avaxnews.net/touching/Several...ed_Part_2.html

and part one
http://avaxnews.net/touching/Several...Colorized.html

[capt_bugaloo]

There are two sides to every story. It would be interesting to hear from an unbiased third-party observer what transpired in this encounter with law enforcement.

Just sayin'...

[250rr]

Originally Posted by Ninjinsky

Was 55 Carters idea ?

anyway checked your avatar (aviatar) and found these tints
http://avaxnews.net/touching/Several...ed_Part_2.html

and part one
http://avaxnews.net/touching/Several...Colorized.html

Cool colorized photos! I traditionally like the original black and whites better, but those at least were well done!

National Speed Limit of 55 mphNixon's idea. He originally wanted a 50 mph limit. He was very quick to both lie to the American people and to try to regulate us out of various and sundry domestic problems.

It appears that when I said 90% compliance wasn't uncommon I was a little pessimistic, buy not by much. From wiki:

Opposition and noncompliance

The NMSL was extremely unpopular. To wit:

The speed limit had very low compliance, contrary to the commonly accepted engineering practice that says that the speed limit should criminalize only the fastest 15% of drivers:
From April through June 1982, speed was monitored on New York's Interstate highways, and an 83% noncompliance rate was found, despite extreme penalties ranging from $100 (1982 dollars, equal to $244 today) or 30 days jail on a first offense to $500 (1982 dollars, equal to $1,222 today), up to 180 days in jail, and a six-month driver's license revocation upon third conviction in 18 months.[26]
In the 4th quarter of 1988, 85% of drivers violated the 55 mph (90 km/h) speed limits on Connecticut rural interstates.[27]
In 1985, the Texas's State Department of Highways and Public Transportation surveyed motorist speeds at 101 locations on six types of urban and rural roads. It found that 82.2% of motorists violated the speed limit on rural interstates, 67.2% violated speed limits on urban interstates, and 61.6% violated speed limits on all roads.[28][29]
Various states enacted legal measures to minimize the effects of the 55 mph limit:
Arizona, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, and Utah replaced traditional speeding fines with $5–$15 energy wasting fines as long as drivers did not exceed the speed limit in effect before the 55 mph federal requirement.[26]
Nevada's energy wasting fine was enacted on April 15, 1981, when signed by Governor Robert List. Motorists not exceeding 70 mph (115 km/h) in 55 mph (90 km/h) zones could be issued $5 "energy wasting" fines. However, standard speeding tickets were still allowed and "troopers were directed not to take the new law as a signal to stop writing tickets".[30]
In 1986, North Dakota's fine for speeding up to 15 mph (25 km/h) over the limit was only $15 and had no license points.[31]
South Dakota cut speeding fines in 1985 and stopped assessing points for being 10 mph (15 km/h) or less above the speed limit in 1986.[31]
On August 1, 1986, Minnesota, which normally suspended licenses after three tickets, stopped counting speeding tickets for no more than 65 mph (105 km/h).[31]
In 1981, 33 state legislatures debated measures to oppose the NMSL.[26]
Some law enforcement officials openly questioned the speed limit. In 1986, Jerry Baum, director of the South Dakota Highway Patrol, said "Why must I have a trooper stationed on an interstate, at 10 in the morning, worried about a guy driving 60 mph on a system designed to be traveled at 70? He could be out on a Friday night watching for drunken drivers."[31]
Even organizations supporting the NMSL, such as the American Automobile Association (AAA) provided lists of locations where the limit was strictly enforced.[26]
On June 1, 1986, Nevada challenged the NMSL by posting a 70 mph (115 km/h) limit on 3 miles (5 km) of Interstate 80. The Nevada statute authorizing this speed limit included language that invalidated itself if the federal government suspended transportation funding. Indeed, the Federal Highway Administration immediately withheld highway funding, which automatically invalidated the statute by its own terms.[12]

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by corksil

3) It is an also a common misconception that LiDAR technology is perfectly accurate. If a vehicle is travelling at a higher rate of speed within parallel to the vehicle in question, it is quite common for the LiDAR gun to pick up the fastest moving vehicle in the "pack." In my defense, my motorcycle was travelling next to a mustang camaro accelerating at a higher rate of speed than my [smaller] motorcycle. The mustang I was travelling next to at the time of acceleration did INDEED have a front license plate, capable of reflecting the LiDAR gun pulse laser -- and again -- in my defense; I was merely trying to maintain what seemed to be "traffic speed" on a severely underpowered motorcycle before the mustang driver decided to change lanes and force me to slam on the brakes.

Perhaps the commanding officer on duty at the time would like to interject. It would only seem fair at this point -- as the police trainee parked simultaneously next to the police cruiser at the scene of the "crime" did seem a little slow on his siren/light button at the time just before the ticket was issued and the rental mustang car flew past proper police justice unobstructed.

this is your best bet. do trial by declaration with this defense and if it fails request a full trial and cross your fingers.

it's extremely likely that if its actually a BS ticket that the cop simply wont even file it. its a bit firmer than a warning but a bit nicer on the wallet than a real ticket.

[Bigballsofpaint]

I have now been pulled over twice on a motorcycle. Once on my 250 for running a red light (it was yellow, officer said since it had turned red while i was still under it that its considered red). I was polite, said i didnt want to brake hard and possibly get rear ended. I didnt even pull over, i noticed him behind me with the lights on while i was goign to turn into the bank, so i pulled into the bank parking lot and waited. He ended with trying to sell me his gsxr 750, no warning. Have a nice day and be safe.

2 weeks ago i got pulled over on my rental BMW in california around 10pm doing 75 in a 55. He turned around and caught up to me a few miles down the road, and told me to pull into the gas station on his megaphone thing. He asked for license and reg and i said its a rental but heres my license. He told me i was doing 75 in a 55 and my gf blurted out, "where the heck are the speed limit signs?" Sorry Cali guys, theres barely any on the backroads (im sure none are 75mph though). He proceeded to tell us where multiple signs are miles away. He asked me if i knew how wet roads affect motorcycle tires, i said yes, i have fallen on black ice so i know all to well. My GF was apparently then crying saying she just wanted to get to the hotel (it was prob 40-45 degrees by this time). He let me off and gave me directions to where we were headed No warning besides slow down and be safe.

So ive had nothing but great experiences with our officers while on the bike. Car is a different story

Also, with insurance. Although it may be unlikely with his business, if you have different companies for moto and car your other insurance may not be affected. Im sure it varies, but my car insurance shows no accidents even though i had a claim with my motorcycle insurance 2 years ago.

[cbinker]

I have been pulled over many times, and every time, I was speeding, the amount of speed over depended on where and when they locked in on me, my respect towards the officer got me warnings multiple times, there was one time where the cop was kinda a d-bag, but i went to court and got it reduced.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by corksil

I admit no fault, and this will absolutely be contested in court............... I do fully and wholeheartedly agree that I was travelling at a much higher rate of speed than necessary to get to my intended destination. HOWEVER -- ..............

You know how things work on your side of the world, but in my experience in similar situations, people not especially interested in helping you after understanding, just pick up a general and vague idea from the first seconds of any explanation.

After that, the more you talk, the more frustrated/bored the other person becomes.
If that person has some power, he/she will use it to get rid of your long and apparently non-comprehensible description.

I wish the best outcome in your endeavor.

[cbinker]

He was speeding and his thought process is not much different then the inmates i deal with on a daily basis.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by Motofool

You know how things work on your side of the world, but in my experience in similar situations, people not especially interested in helping you after understanding, just pick up a general and vague idea from the first seconds of any explanation.

After that, the more you talk, the more frustrated/bored the other person becomes.
If that person has some power, he/she will use it to get rid of your long and apparently non-comprehensible description.

I wish the best outcome in your endeavor.

That goes double for judges. My defense for my last big ticket was
"judge I dun goofed, I plead guilty to the charge, with the exclusion of felony evasion, and recognize the problem that I have with wanting to go fast on public roads. I need to be able to drive/ride to get to work and school and cannot afford the big jump in insurance which would result from receiving the points on this ticket. To solve this problem I am making an effort to head to the track as an outlet for my need for speed. On the point of felony evasion, I did not evade the officer as I was never aware of the officer behind me due to my excessive rate of speed and pulled over the moment that I saw the lights as the video from the officer's squad car can confirm. Evasion would be if I had seen the officer with his lights and proceeded to attempt to flee rather than signal the officer with my left hand, reduce my speed significantly, and pull over as it was safe to do so."
Worked out pretty well for me, though if I get any kind of ticket I'm screwed

[cadd]

OP, how fast were you going? What was the speed limit? It was never mentioned in the OP.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by cadd

OP, how fast were you going? What was the speed limit? It was never mentioned in the OP.

He said he doesn't want to "admit guilt"

so allow me to rephrase that question for you.

How fast were you allegedly going, and what was the speed limit that you allegedly broke?

[Tigerpaw]

The roads are in such HORRIBLE condition, yet you ride OVER the speed limit. Well played!