Honda CBR300R Chuckwalla 350 Supersport Lap Record Onboard

[toEleven]

Didn't pop in via my search terms here on ninjette. Hurray small bikes:

Link to original page on YouTube.

[greg737]

because I'm not a racer/track-day guy somebody's gonna have to explain that bike's transmission to me.

First, does it have some sort of launch-assist program? It doesn't look like he's using the throttle on the start line but the bike holds solid RPMs (somewhere 6,000 to 7,000) until the flag drops and he starts feathering out the clutch.

Then all of his upshifts are clutchless and throttleless. Quickshifter, right?

Sort of reduces the rider involvement doesn't it? Is this the current state of the "arms race" at the track, you either have this equipment or you're not competitive?

[chugs]

Originally Posted by greg737

because I'm not a racer/track-day guy somebody's gonna have to explain that bike's transmission to me.

First, does it have some sort of launch-assist program? It doesn't look like he's using the throttle on the start line but the bike holds solid RPMs (somewhere 6,000 to 7,000) until the flag drops and he starts feathering out the clutch.

Then all of his upshifts are clutchless and throttleless. Quickshifter, right?

Sort of reduces the rider involvement doesn't it? Is this the current state of the "arms race" at the track, you either have this equipment or you're not competitive?

I don't think he's using any launch assist, just holding rpms at where he wants to launch the bike at. He's definitely using a quick shifter. His bike is fully armed with adjustable forks and probably an adjustable rear shock as well.

[toEleven]

No launch assist, but you're both right about the rest. From the video description (emphasis added):

A lap time of 1:58.66 is a pretty arbitrary number, but consider this: To cover Chuckwalla’s 2.7 miles and 17 turns Ari averaged 81 mph, just 11 mph slower than a stock CBR300’s outright top speed of 92 mph. And, of the less-than two minutes it took to do the lap, the bike was wide open for one minute eleven seconds, or 60 percent of the lap.

It’s true, this little CBR is on slicks, tuned suspension, has a quickshifter, and is up 8 horsepower on the stock CBR300’s 28 ponies. But still, last time we held a superbike shootout at Chuckwalla (with bikes like the Aprilia’s RSV4, BMW’s S1000RR, and Kawasaki’s ZX-10R) most of our testers only managed between a 1:54 and 2:05 laptimes. Editor Henning can consider his skills honed.

You can be competitive without all of the arm's race bits. In classes that allow them, it may be handicapping yourself. It's a little bit like displacement - assuming you can cover the cost, would you compete with a bike under the class limit? Probably not, in most cases.

On the arms race thing, consider: literbike comparisons in 2015 made a habit of dinging bikes that didn't have auto-blipping downshifts.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by toEleven

No launch assist, but you're both right about the rest. From the video description (emphasis added):
You can be competitive without all of the arm's race bits. In classes that allow them, it may be handicapping yourself. It's a little bit like displacement - assuming you can cover the cost, would you compete with a bike under the class limit? Probably not, in most cases.

A lap time of 1:58.66 is a pretty arbitrary number, but consider this: To cover Chuckwalla’s 2.7 miles and 17 turns Ari averaged 81 mph, just 11 mph slower than a stock CBR300’s outright top speed of 92 mph. And, of the less-than two minutes it took to do the lap, the bike was wide open for one minute eleven seconds, or 60 percent of the lap.

It’s true, this little CBR is on slicks, tuned suspension, has a quickshifter, and is up 8 horsepower on the stock CBR300’s 28 ponies. But still, last time we held a superbike shootout at Chuckwalla (with bikes like the Aprilia’s RSV4, BMW’s S1000RR, and Kawasaki’s ZX-10R) most of our testers only managed between a 1:54 and 2:05 laptimes. Editor Henning can consider his skills honed.

On the arms race thing, consider: literbike comparisons in 2015 made a habit of dinging bikes that didn't have auto-blipping downshifts.

IMO, more than that quote says about Ari Henning's skills is that it doesn't say much about the skill level of the Superbike shootout testers. Consequently it tells me how little value there is in the article in regard to making a decision about the performance of those bikes.

I'm not throwing stones at Ari Henning's skills, but an 8hp difference with a single cylinder bike is huge and Motorcyclist is conveniently leaving out the money for parts and tuning time that it took to get that number.


This bike is racing in the CVMA 350 Supersport class, However, the class rules specifically allow the CBR300R to run according to the Ultralightweight Shootout rules which are in turn Formula 2 rules. This means virtually unlimited engine and chassis modifications.

Motorcyclist is not really telling the whole story here.

[Trailerboy531]

As someone who gets his ass beat by Ari on a monthly basis and can vouch for him being a seriously cool dude I'll tell you that bike is modded but it's allllll Ari. Before he modded the motor (lighter crank, bored out to 300cc IIRC) he was doing 2:00.8ish. He's no slouch. The 8hp basically helps him not get raped on the straights.

As for Timm questioning the Superbike Shootout riders the ones in question are likely Zack Courts, who grew up with Ari and is just as fast, and Ari himself. Yes they are not going balls to the wall because it's unfortunate to return a heap of metal to the manufacturer, but again, they are no slouches.

[toEleven]

Originally Posted by tgold

[see good stuff above]

I can't flag as helpful yet, so: thank you! Very good caveats to consider with regard to the nature of this record.

At the very least, I hope the onboard lap video was enjoyable to some of you who come across the thread. I genuinely didn't put any thought toward it being mildly contentious.

On the bike comparison issue, I'd add that comparing rider A and rider B is problematic whether they're journalists or MotoGP aliens. It's an extra variable. Fortunately, each rider usually has a swing at each bike, so you have a little less variability when focusing on a single rider's comments rather than a combined overall score.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by Trailerboy531

As someone who gets his ass beat by Ari on a monthly basis and can vouch for him being a seriously cool dude I'll tell you that bike is modded but it's allllll Ari. Before he modded the motor (lighter crank, bored out to 300cc IIRC) he was doing 2:00.8ish. He's no slouch. The 8hp basically helps him not get raped on the straights.

As for Timm questioning the Superbike Shootout riders the ones in question are likely Zack Courts, who grew up with Ari and is just as fast, and Ari himself. Yes they are not going balls to the wall because it's unfortunate to return a heap of metal to the manufacturer, but again, they are no slouches.

Look, I love racing lightweight bikes and I'm not questioning Ari Henning's skills whatever they are, But one thing I've learned in racing is that the faster you go, the more the bike matters.
Yes Ari has some ability, but downplaying the modifications as if they matter little by saying it's "allllll Ari" is just BS. As if that power only counts when you're straight up and down. When you are talking a 30% increase in power, you are talking a hell of a lot of difference. If the mods didn't matter then have him go out on a stock bike and do it.

I've seen the "budget" magazine builds time and again and their "budget" is almost always unrealistic for the average racer. The fact that Motorcyclist isn't being specific with what they did is enough to make me question their journalistic integrity a little.

As for the testers and the superbike shootout. If they are not pushing the bikes they are testing so that they can find the weaknesses, then they should just go for a street ride and tell us how nice the seat is. I've raced with and beaten GSXR600's, Triumph 675's, etc, on a not particularly special SV650. What does that mean? Not much except that there were guys who weren't riding very capable bikes to their potential. So then Motorcyclist comparing the laptimes between the superbikes and the CBR becomes meaningless.

If you want a no BS racetrack and street riding review of a bike, I suggest getting a subscription to Roadracing World.

But it does show there is potential in the CBR300, they're just not to forthcoming in what it takes to get it there.

[toEleven]

Originally Posted by tgold

...
I've seen the "budget" magazine builds time and again and their "budget" is almost always unrealistic for the average racer. The fact that Motorcyclist isn't being specific with what they did is enough to make me question their journalistic integrity a little.
...

Motorcyclist is only attached to the video because he happens to work there. What business that pays it's bills by acquiring views would pass on free content? It's not a magazine project bike (do correct me if you find any evidence to the contrary), they made zero mention of "budget", and there is no article or series of articles to go along with it. The journalism - and that seems like a generous term for posting a video - involved could be summed up with 'here's a video of one of our staff members in his personal time'. I'm baffled about how you landed on this tangent. For comparison sake, his current Motorcyclist long term bike is an RC-390, and the last small bike to fit that role was a CBR250. In both series of articles, there is a price listed for every component he adds.

[choneofakind]

(I somehow don't believe that the CBR in question was all in Ari's personal time... )

[toEleven]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

(I somehow don't believe that the CBR in question was all in Ari's personal time... )

If they're paying for a bike that doesn't get any direct coverage, they're getting a terrible deal. As if moto journalists didn't have it good enough already.