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Old January 22nd, 2014, 07:36 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Sykes92 View Post
It would be betraying my kawasaki .
when you put it that way it is a betrayal
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 10:28 PM   #122
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Potential reveal of an R3 in next fall would put it in dealerships right in time for graduation. Hmmmmm
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 10:33 PM   #123
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Hmm, that would be tempting since I'll get reviews too but I think I'd go for a street triple r or a 636 as my graduation present of choice :P
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 12:07 AM   #124
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Hmm, that would be tempting since I'll get reviews too but I think I'd go for a street triple r or a 636 as my graduation present of choice :P
I was also thinking about getting a Street Triple R for my own graduation present
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 06:01 AM   #125
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OK you traitors, I picked up www.r25-forum.org. Let's hope that's what Yamaha still calls it when it's released as a production bike...

R25.org is still available, but they wanted $300 to register it instead of the $20 that a normal domain costs (domain + private registration).
Might want to get the r3 URLs too...


Quote:
Originally Posted by [url=www.fz-09forums.com/forum/2014-fz-09-general-discussion-forum/5314-yamaha-registered-yzf-r3-r3-trademarks-what-will-bike.html[/url

There are two bikes that could end up with the YZF-R3 name IMO. The YZF-R3 could be an upcoming small-displacement sportbike. The YZF-R25 was a prototype that had a displacement of 250cc. It could be that Yamaha decided to up the displacement of this bike in order to compete with bikes like the Honda CBR300R and Kawasaki Ninja 300. The R3 could use a beefed up version of the Rs5's parallel-twin engine. This route would be similar to what Kawasaki did with the Ninja 250 in turning it into the Ninja 300.

The second possibility is that the "3" may signify a three-cylinder engine, following the return of Yamaha Triples in the FZ-09. Yamaha previously announced that it would introduce more three-cylinder models, and a fully-faired sportbike would be a logical follow-up to the FZ-09. Usually Yamaha uses numbers to indicate engine displacement and not number of cylinders though. Given that, a 300cc sportbike is a more likely outcome.

Right now Yamaha is denying knowledge of a YZF-R3. It pointed towards the R25 shown in Tokyo instead

edit: Speaking on the new yami, I've seen them call the engine an 'inline 2'.... I'm not engine guy but if it is an inline 2 cylinder, how does that differ from a parallel twin?
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 06:40 AM   #126
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Seems that it's a different name for the same thing.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 07:17 AM   #127
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perhaps same thing different orientation. instead of = : ?
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 07:58 AM   #128
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I can't picture how an inline-2 would be in any different orientation. If the cylinders are parallel to each other, it's the same as a parallel twin. If they are in any way not parallel, there is some degree of V between them, making it a v-twin.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 08:09 AM   #129
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I implying that instead of them being parallel in the east and west direction of the chassis being parallel in the north and south direction if you will so in line with the chassis? no?... ok ill shut up now

it was a stretch... and now I'm simply padding my post count
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 08:47 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by subxero View Post
I implying that instead of being them being parallel in the east and west direction of the chassis being parallel in the north and south direction if you will so in line with the chassis? no?... ok ill shut up now

it was a stretch... and now I'm simply padding my post count
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 09:45 AM   #131
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There have been so many variations on the 2 cylinder engine, from the twingle hybrid single/twins to the longitudinal inline and twin crank 2 strokes, and everything in between. Ultimately, each has its strengths, our P2 just happens to be cheap to build and compact. With certain tricks they can do much of what the others do, except sound good to the ear.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 10:35 AM   #132
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Right, but that still doesn't describe any difference between an inline twin and a parallel twin; those are two names for the same thing as far as I can tell.

In terms of orienting them transverse or longitudinally, it's a possibility, but unlikely for a chain-driven sportbike. A transverse engine has the countershaft sprocket aligned the correct way for a chain to run to the rear of the bike; an engine oriented front to back (like a gold wing, boxer engine, guzzi, etc.) only makes more sense when you're attaching it to the rear with a shaft drive, or are not concerned about high levels of efficiency / power transfer. Every time the power has to turn 90 degrees there's an unavoidable loss.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 12:15 PM   #133
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Just for conversation a bike with a forward crank and a rear crank for two inline longitudinal cylinders would be very different from our P2. Imagine the cranks in the same plane as ours, across the bike, transferring the power to the trans the same way, no 90 degree change in direction. Basically a front single cylinder/crank and a second one behind it. Cranks locked together by chain or gears.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 12:29 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee
Default Difference between "Inline Twin" and "Parallel Twin"?
Gives me an immense pleasure sharing my knowledge that a fellow XBHPian taught me when I was new in this forum

Take an example of two cylinder engine; A parallel engine goes firing for every 360 degree rotation, while an inline goes firing for every 180 degrees.

Means, on an inline engine, when one piston goes up, the other comes down. But in the case of parallel, both goes up & down together.

Additional information - Straight-two engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ninja 250R, Triumph Bonneville are some motorcycles running on parallel twin.
[source=http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/universal-threads/12923-difference-between-inline-twin-parallel-twin.html]
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 12:30 PM   #135
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Is this a crossplane design?
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 12:33 PM   #136
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Alex, with all these domain name purchases for small displacement motorcycles, have you considered creating a site based around all of the small displacement (say 400cc and under) motorcycles? It would work in much the same way as the different generations of kawi ninja's on this site with each bike having it's own forum area and adding in consolidated areas as well. That way the site's community would evolve into a small displacement bike community and not just a ninjette community now that there is an entire field of competition. just food for thought.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 01:49 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old3 View Post
Just for conversation a bike with a forward crank and a rear crank for two inline longitudinal cylinders would be very different from our P2. Imagine the cranks in the same plane as ours, across the bike, transferring the power to the trans the same way, no 90 degree change in direction. Basically a front single cylinder/crank and a second one behind it. Cranks locked together by chain or gears.
Those are very different engines, agreed. But the cylinder arrangement on both is still a parallel twin and/or inline twin. Either name would remain applicable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EsrTek View Post
[source=http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/universal-threads/12923-difference-between-inline-twin-parallel-twin.html]
That reply isn't necessarily correct. The firing arrangement and crankshaft orientations can vary quite a bit, but the definitions of what those orientations need to be for it to be a "parallel twin" aren't concrete. A better link is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight-twin_engine

In that reply, it covers some of the fuzziness of these terms when applied to motorcycles:

Quote:
Terminology
In motorcycles, as with cars and other vehicles, the terms "parallel-twin", "inline-twin", "vertical-twin" and "straight-two" are used.[7] The term "parallel-twin" is sometimes used with the special meaning that the crankshaft is transverse across the frame, while "inline-twin" would mean that the cylinders are arranged front to rear, in line with the direction of travel.[8] This special meaning for "inline" has been used for motorcycles with a longitudinal crankshaft, such as the Sunbeam S7,[9] and for tandem twins, with a transverse pair of crankshafts, but the cylinders arranged longitudinally, one in front of the other.[10] The term "parallel twin" is also sometimes used to refer specifically to a four-stroke straight-two engine with 360º firing intervals, causing the pistons to travel parallel to each other.[11] Other times, "parallel-twin", "inline-twin" and the other variants are used interchangeably and treated as equivalent.
As listed above, people have different perspectives on the use of the terms, but all it comes down to is terminology. Back to what we're talking about in this thread, the fact that Yamaha calls it an "inline-2" doesn't definitively mean anything different about the engine setup, compared to any of the existing parallel twins we are all familiar with.

Quote:
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Alex, with all these domain name purchases for small displacement motorcycles, have you considered creating a site based around all of the small displacement (say 400cc and under) motorcycles? It would work in much the same way as the different generations of kawi ninja's on this site with each bike having it's own forum area and adding in consolidated areas as well. That way the site's community would evolve into a small displacement bike community and not just a ninjette community now that there is an entire field of competition. just food for thought.
I've thought about this, and will probably think about it some more. The reason I'm partial to ninjettes is because we've owned a bunch of them. I'm comfortable talking about them, and comfortable curating information about them because I'm familiar with them. Having the site morph into a larger and broader site means it takes it further from my comfort zone, in terms of hands-on experience with the bikes. Doesn't mean it's a non-starter, but it is a bit different from what I've done here.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 01:53 PM   #138
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Fair enough, even if you don't set it up yourself there's always the potential for partnerships and mergers later on as other sites pop up, sort of like a "hey go here if you're interested in ninjettes, go here for supermotos, go here for cbr250rr/300rr, or go here for the R3"
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 01:59 PM   #139
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I think that would be a good idea but like Alex says there's also other bike specific forums like ninjette and people would have trouble leaving to join this new one.

It would definitely be cool though having other bikers in one forum.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 02:02 PM   #140
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Yea, that does make sense. However, it'll be interesting as the sites pop up. Granted by the time it'll happen I'll probably be a regular at some triumph street triple site and an occasional here (unless I manage to keep my 300)
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 06:06 PM   #141
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Thanks Alex (Sorry, I still don't know how to mark post helpful).
I did some more looking and also found when Yami itself unveiled a 'parallel twin'.

I was just curious if the new yami might be less vibrations.

Either way this bike is making me want to wait and buy a new bike when they come out.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 06:07 PM   #142
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compared to the pregen 250 (and to a lesser extent the newgen 250) the 300 has far less vibrations due to a rubber mounted engine, I would assume that yamaha who typically have better build quality would do the same.
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Old March 7th, 2014, 06:55 PM   #143
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I spoke to the Yamaha rep at Daytona today, he has no idea what a R-25 or R3 are and has never seen the R25 prototype vid with Rossi.

On another note, EBR is bringing in a 250, but it will compete with the CBR250 so no threat to dethrone the Ninja 300, too bad!

I had hopes for the Buell design but it is just a rehash of another 25 HP beginner bike. They plan to be the lowest price, rather than compete in performance. Shame really, Buell is a great designer and has done a lot despite being held back so many years by HD.
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Old March 7th, 2014, 07:38 PM   #144
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That's a shame. They're treating the 250cc like Buell treated the Blast. Make something cheap to learn on.

They're EBR. They could build the most badass small bike if they wanted. They've got it in them.
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Old March 10th, 2014, 04:03 PM   #145
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This post may be dead now but I just read an article which said the R3 would be a 3 cyl putting out 40 hp. All this is just speculation but if the RC 390 is not coming and this will be cheaper all I can say is GO Blue!
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Old March 10th, 2014, 04:51 PM   #146
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That's a shame. They're treating the 250cc like Buell treated the Blast. Make something cheap to learn on.

They're EBR. They could build the most badass small bike if they wanted. They've got it in them.
They are still subject to a mother company, and that is now Hero. The rep was saying they need a high number seller to prop up the top end bikes. I countered, build the best performing one and you will be in first place, build another 4th place bike and who cares? He says they will win on low price.

Eh, another low end bike to split the market. At some point the shares in that split class won't be worth fighting for.
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Old March 10th, 2014, 05:48 PM   #147
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Until any of these bikes actually hit the road the ninja 300 is still king.

Just sayin'
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Old March 11th, 2014, 07:48 AM   #148
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This post may be dead now but I just read an article which said the R3 would be a 3 cyl putting out 40 hp. All this is just speculation but if the RC 390 is not coming and this will be cheaper all I can say is GO Blue!
P2 most likely.

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-...way/24403.html

And if they still plan to beat the Ninja in MSRP, I don't expect much if any better components onboard it. Best case I see it being a bit lighter and cheaper, probably match the HP. On the plus side, GYTR parts might be available for it. Given the mods the Ninja can accept, not much to crow about though.

I doubt there is any truth to the RZ350 replacement rumors going around last year, unless this is it.
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Old March 13th, 2014, 10:57 AM   #149
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Damn U Yamaha!!!

The prototype R25/R3 whatever it may be is "eh". Same old tube frame that looks like it would fit a pre-gen Ninjette. Skinny fork tubes, non adjustable anything. "Eh".

The 125 is frigging smoking hot!!!

http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/03/11...NDAxMjEzNjc2S0

Bring in THAT, or THAT with the WR250R engine or bump the frame to fit the new twin too. Why is this so hard for them to understand???
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Old March 13th, 2014, 11:09 AM   #150
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That thing is sexy! That with 300cc and it's time to join yamaha.
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Old March 13th, 2014, 03:45 PM   #151
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Old3 where did you get the info on the 300 cc R3? All I could find online was that Yamaha was planning on launching a new 250/300 in the USA. I could not find any definite specs and if you watch their Launch video (you tube) with Rossi, It looks like it will be a little better then you are implying. I would love to see Yamaha (or any MFG) bring a nice 250/300 which breaks out of the "beginner" brackets. The little Ninja and the CBR250 are both great bikes but they could be more "R" if you know what I mean. There are plenty of choices for beginners and people who are looking for cheaper transportation its about time for some MFG to really raise the bar with more than just 48CC's
I would be interested in reading the same article you got all of your information from regarding the R3
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Old March 14th, 2014, 02:41 PM   #152
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More "R" is what I'm talking about too!!!

LOL, well, I've gleaned bits from everywhere, but you can see the same basic, (cheap!!!) Ninjettesque frame and what looks like 37mm forks on the prototype.

Yamaha says it will beat the Ninja 300 on price. That says just about all I need to know.

It will be at least 35 HP and lighter. No mention of better brakes, better legs, Deltabox frame. If it was destined to have any real advantages, I'd expected it to have made the list of features they seem so proud of. Ninja is 39HP but they aren't claiming they will even equal that. Maybe as a 300 it will?

A few bits look upmarket on the Rossi bike, but probably just to doll it up for promotions. It looks like a 4p caliper but at under the Ninja 300 price, I'm really doubting even that.

If we get a glance at an actual pre production bike in a spy shot, I'm expecting the same standard Ninja 250/300 CBR250 fare in the suspension/brakes/frame. It isn't aimed at the USA, or Europe. It is another bike built to meet a lower price point in other countries. USA may never even see it, and unless the proto is a ruse for a totally different R style bike, no loss IMO.

The 125 looks stunning, but this R25/R3 prototype isn't that by any stretch..
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Old March 14th, 2014, 02:45 PM   #153
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Old March 14th, 2014, 02:54 PM   #154
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Akra can, no way.

4p caliper? GYRT maybe?

Aluminum swing arm? Hard to tell, but great if it is. Will it be there for budget MSRP production bike?

Frame, just like ours.

Forks? Looks like ours...

Rotor up front, 300mm max by my eye. Floating rotor. Will that make production at a low price they suggest?

I hope it is a better bike than the Ninja, one that forces a better response and builds competition, I'm just not seeing that when the 125 they are building has so many upmarket parts right there in their own parts bins.
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Old March 14th, 2014, 02:57 PM   #155
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Old March 14th, 2014, 02:59 PM   #156
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Brembo radial master? Brembo clutch controls too? On a cheap bike? Maybe. Drilled, machined caps over what must be non adjustable forks. Dress up. Not production IMO.
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Old March 14th, 2014, 03:12 PM   #157
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http://autoexpo.gaadi.com/news/yamah...auto-expo-2014

Shock on proto looks to have threaded adjuster for preload. It was rumored to be Ohlins too, though I can't tell. Yamaha still owns them a far as I know, production part on a $4500 bike? Great if true!
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Old March 14th, 2014, 04:10 PM   #158
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The best thing I have read about the Yamaha R3 is that they plan on using a "cross plane" type crank layout. The ninja 250 uses a parallel twin which means the engine fires at even intervals while the cross plane would IMPLY a staggered firing possible not sharing the same crank pin. This would be highly unlikely in a twin but Yamaha is known for changing things in motors for small advantages (5 valves, Cross plane R1 and R6 and CV throttle bodies). The extent of what they can do would be limited by there market price point but this doesn't mean we cant hope for some innovation. I would have to guess that the Brembo bits on the "prototype" are either for show and to gather more attention or they will be "bargain basement" but then again there is always hope! Ohlins suspension on a bike in this class for less than $6000 would almost assure success in the USA. The lower end of the CC market is growing fast with many MFGs getting in the game so if Yamaha did their homework they may have decided what the public in America wants and I for one hope they deliver!
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Old March 14th, 2014, 04:24 PM   #159
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In a discussion with the Yamaha rep for the USA last week... he didn't know they'd be selling the SR400 until the day before he got it to display at Daytona. He had never heard of the R25, the R3 or seen the proto vid. They do what they want over there and ship what they please if that conversation was accurate. Yamaha USA has no real control of what they get by my estimation.

Any of the Big 4 have the ability to do something awesome, but this seems aimed at big number sales in other places, not to impress the USA's riders who for the most part dismiss small bikes anyway. Of course, everything small sold here since the RZ350 has kinda sucked... but I shouldn't say that here!

Last year I'd heard a rumored RZ350 was coming. I haven't heard anything since. I'd guess this is it, but it shoulda been a RZ350f with class leading power if it was to wear that name. 30-35 BHP won't cut it. Crossplane crank or otherwise. If it can't power wheelie in 1,2 and 3, well, call it something else!
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Old March 14th, 2014, 06:29 PM   #160
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More rumor regarding the R3, no mention of the USA. Notes the 350LC though.

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-...way/24403.html

Here it says US trademark applied for...

http://blog.motorcycle.com/2014/01/2...-trademark-us/
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