51 hp 300 went boom, graphic pics inside

genosr1 · October 16th, 2016, 11:00 AM

all dynos are different so for reference our stock motor made 36 hp on pump and 40hp on mr-12, our built motor made 47hp on pump and 51hp on mr-12 on the same dyno which always reads 3hp lower than most others, 300 was wide open down back straight at NCM then boom, broke both rods and everything else you can think of, oh well

csmith12 · October 16th, 2016, 11:37 AM

oh snap!

Totalmichel · October 16th, 2016, 12:01 PM

really bad luck

snot · October 16th, 2016, 12:19 PM

2nd time I have seen this.

A member on another forums engine blew on the highway. His was covered under warranty, the piston wasn't installed correctly in his motor. He had less than 2k miles.

genosr1 · October 16th, 2016, 12:37 PM

far from stock here, got 3 good weekends, no warranty in racing

choneofakind · October 16th, 2016, 01:02 PM

I bet it was fun with 50 ponies!

verboten1 · October 16th, 2016, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmith12

oh snap!

Quite literally!

Snake · October 16th, 2016, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I bet it was fun with 50 ponies!

Yes the power to weight ratio had to have been awesome!

JohnnyBravo · October 16th, 2016, 02:31 PM

I want 50hp... I don't wanna blown motor though. I bet you had a blast while it lasted

genosr1 · October 16th, 2016, 02:53 PM

stay around 46hp we went for broke, and got it

adouglas · October 16th, 2016, 02:55 PM

This is why we can't have nice things.

Trailerboy531 · October 16th, 2016, 03:01 PM

Usually when people "blow the motor" it's actually just one part that is broken and causes a loss of power. You, on the other hand...

SLOWn60 · October 16th, 2016, 05:51 PM

No picture of the riders shorts?

Peanut_EOD · October 16th, 2016, 06:04 PM

The cam chain tensioner seems ok.

Motofool · October 16th, 2016, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genosr1

......... our built motor........

Care to explain?

Racer x · October 16th, 2016, 06:59 PM

This is very confusing to me. I make more than 50 hp with a 250cc engine. I have spent many hours and made dozens and dozens of dyno runs and many one mile passes. I have never just snapped rods. If it was an oil problem the rods would have broken at the bearing. Or if it was excess heat the bolts would have broken and the rods would show blueing.
But to just snap rods is something I have never seen. Are those forged pistons? What oil are you using?
How are the valves? This is something you should get to the bottom of.

genosr1 · October 16th, 2016, 07:11 PM

oil was fine
j&e pistons
a couple valves bent
head dosent look damaged
cct is good
ill check into it soon but answer my not come as bad as it's destroyed

empire00 · October 16th, 2016, 07:47 PM

Rider ok? presumably alex.

Racer x · October 17th, 2016, 04:52 AM

I would like to see the parts laied out. Is the pin still in the number two rod small end? Next I would look at the bearings.

With a failure like this I would look at the chain of events. What started the failure?

The engine history. How many miles when was it modified? How much time on the modified engine?

You had it full pin on the back streight. Did it over rev? What sounds do you recall?

sharky nrk · October 17th, 2016, 08:11 AM

I always find these threads quite enlightening. Stock rods? Looks like it. Any reason on a build going for broke you kept them instead of putting in something more substantial?

Is there a build thread I didn't pay attention to? If not could you post build specs? That is one pretty significant failure so there certainly must be some things we can learn.

Racer x · October 17th, 2016, 08:19 AM

I have never seen a stock rod fail like this. Except when oil sloshed up onto the bottom side of the piston.
This comes from breaking hard at high RPM . The oil sloshes up and the piston stops. This will cause the rod to snap or pull the pin out of the piston.

bruce71198 · October 17th, 2016, 09:42 AM

Dib's on the crank

Zaph42 · October 17th, 2016, 02:51 PM

Damn, the carnage!

Curious about what your build consisted of.

mgentz · October 18th, 2016, 07:07 PM

Dang. I have the same questions as everyone else. Please let us know what you find and what your build was made of.

adouglas · October 19th, 2016, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgentz

Please let us know what you find and what your build was made of.

Stuff of insufficient strength, evidently.

jkv45 · October 19th, 2016, 09:03 AM

That's more than a 40% increase in HP from the stock numbers, so it is asking quite a bit from the stock rods and crank.

Some engines can take that, and more, but not the little Ninja from the looks of it.

It looks like the MR-12 is good for a 10% increase - did you rejet or run the same jetting as on pump gas?

Bruce is close to 48 HP, and running it this weekend. We'll see his does at that level.

mgentz · October 19th, 2016, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkv45

That's more than a 40% increase in HP from the stock numbers, so it is asking quite a bit from the stock rods and crank.

Some engines can take that, and more, but not the little Ninja from the looks of it.

It looks like the MR-12 is good for a 10% increase - did you rejet or run the same jetting as on pump gas?

Bruce is close to 48 HP, and running it this weekend. We'll see his does at that level.

Bruce has custom rods though.....

I am interested in this build because of the output of both HP and the boom. 51HP is nice....

jkv45 · October 19th, 2016, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgentz

Bruce has custom rods though.....

I am interested in this build because of the output of both HP and the boom. 51HP is nice....

Thanks - I looked over his thread, but must have missed it.

I would say that's a good call if you are getting in that range. I assume they would be lighter as well as stronger.

mgentz · October 19th, 2016, 11:26 AM

Carrillo makes rods for the 250. Not sure about the 300 but I would assume so.

Racer x · October 19th, 2016, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgentz

Carrillo makes rods for the 250. Not sure about the 300 but I would assume so.

They are sweet

genosr1 · October 19th, 2016, 02:42 PM

the engine has the following work
ported head
13-1/2 to1 j&e pistons
spears cam
motor was mapped separate for pump and mr-12
motor had 1200 street miles when built
we ran 6 - 25 min gt races and a handful of practice sessions some on 93 pump gas and some on u-4.4 on this motor ran good, ran mr -12 in our other stock motor with no issues more power and much better acceleration to redline
for this last weekend we really wanted to put a hurtin on the local ktm guys that we were barley beating on the pump and u4, so we put in the mr-12 and mapped accordingly and got our best numbers to date, rider said motor was ticking in practice I was
not there to listen, he ran 2 sessions, then motor popped 1 an1/2 laps into race bike was flying pulling away

the #2 piston is the one I think came apart first, pulling the pin out and sawing the cases, I have no clue why or how #1 rod broke
#2 piston had very minor seize marks nothing that makes me think that it locked up causing piston to come apart
ill pull the crank out this weekend and investigate further
bruce is using modified zx6 rods capable of much higher strenth

genosr1 · October 19th, 2016, 02:48 PM

it kinda looks like maybe the rod pulled the piston pin out first then beat the hell out of the under side of piston then sawed thru the cases then broke your guesses are as good as mine at this point

nickjpass · October 19th, 2016, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totalmichel

really bad luck

Nope! Assuming he did some engine work! So it's not totally surprising she went, still unfortunate! Good luck OP! Good thing these are cheap!

mgentz · October 19th, 2016, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickjpass

Nope! Assuming he did some engine work! So it's not totally surprising she went, still unfortunate! Good luck OP! Good thing these are cheap!

He did some work...yes, but it still sux. Seemingly he pushed the limits of HP and got shoved back.

As for cheap, I would not say that once you start putting in the time and money like some of us.

Speaking of HP....I still owe y'all a dyno....dammit

genosr1 · October 19th, 2016, 05:03 PM

heres all the damaged internals, heads shot, crank is ok

bruce71198 · October 20th, 2016, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgentz

He did some work...yes, but it still sux. Seemingly he pushed the limits of HP and got shoved back.

As for cheap, I would not say that once you start putting in the time and money like some of us.

Speaking of HP....I still owe y'all a dyno....dammit

Im helping a friend set up his Dyno next week. Come on down I need a test mule!

bruce71198 · October 20th, 2016, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genosr1

heres all the damaged internals, heads shot, crank is ok

It looks like the initial fault was the pin pulling the bottom out of the one piston.

mgentz · October 20th, 2016, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce71198

Im helping a friend set up his Dyno next week. Come on down I need a test mule!

Where?

bruce71198 · October 23rd, 2016, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgentz

Where?

Crystal lake il

corksil · October 23rd, 2016, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce71198

Dib's on the crank

Dangit I really need that crankshaft.

October 16th, 2016, 11:37 AM	#2
csmith12 The Corner Whisperer Name: Chris (aka Reactor) Location: Northern KY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much. MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13	oh snap! __________________________________________________ Goal: Shake A Million Hands \| Look through the corners \| Track Day Prep \| Closest track? \| The Mid-Ohio School
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

October 16th, 2016, 12:19 PM	#4
snot sammich maker Name: snot Location: West Ohio - in the kitchen Join Date: Feb 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2013 white 300, 09 KLX 250 SF, 09 thunder blue 250(traded) Posts: A lot. MOTM - Apr '15	2nd time I have seen this. A member on another forums engine blew on the highway. His was covered under warranty, the piston wasn't installed correctly in his motor. He had less than 2k miles. __________________________________________________ https://www.brocksperformance.com/VZ...0035+C450.aspx

October 16th, 2016, 02:31 PM	#9
JohnnyBravo Certifiable nontundrum Name: Harper Location: NC Milkshake stand Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2013 SE NINJA 300 Posts: Too much. MOTM - Sep '13, Sep '16	I want 50hp... I don't wanna blown motor though. I bet you had a blast while it lasted __________________________________________________

October 16th, 2016, 02:53 PM	#10
genosr1 ninjette.org member Name: geno Location: granite city Join Date: Oct 2013 Motorcycle(s): gsxr 750, sv650, 250 ninja Posts: 110	stay around 46hp we went for broke, and got it
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

October 16th, 2016, 02:55 PM	#11
adouglas Cat herder Name: Gort Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): Aprilia RS660 Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 6 MOTM - Jul '18, Nov '16, Aug '14, May '13	This is why we can't have nice things. __________________________________________________ I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12 Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est. Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem.
	3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.

October 16th, 2016, 12:01 PM	#3
Totalmichel ninjette.org member Name: andre Location: PORTO Join Date: Sep 2016 Motorcycle(s): NINJA 250R Posts: 13	really bad luck

October 16th, 2016, 12:37 PM	#5
genosr1 ninjette.org member Name: geno Location: granite city Join Date: Oct 2013 Motorcycle(s): gsxr 750, sv650, 250 ninja Posts: 110	far from stock here, got 3 good weekends, no warranty in racing

October 16th, 2016, 01:02 PM	#6
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	I bet it was fun with 50 ponies!

October 16th, 2016, 03:01 PM	#12
Trailerboy531 Gear crash test dummy Name: Max Location: South Bay (So. Cal) Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250 race bike, 2014 ZX-636r Posts: A lot.	Usually when people "blow the motor" it's actually just one part that is broken and causes a loss of power. You, on the other hand... __________________________________________________ CVMA #531

October 16th, 2016, 05:51 PM	#13
SLOWn60 n00bie to wannabie Name: Bill Location: St Ives, BC (Shuswap Lake) Join Date: Sep 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250R (Red), 2005 VFR800A (Red), CRF450X (Red), 2012 F800GS (Wants to be Red!) Posts: A lot. MOTM - Nov '15	No picture of the riders shorts? __________________________________________________ The Smart Money: #1 - ATGATT, #2 - Training (machine skills and survival skills), #3 - The bike; whatever floats yer boat with the money you have left over

October 16th, 2016, 06:04 PM	#14
Peanut_EOD ninjette.org sage Name: Peanut Location: Senoia, GA Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): Green 2013 ZX-6R Posts: 723	The cam chain tensioner seems ok. __________________________________________________ http://www.simplysurrealphotography....es/peanut2.png
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

October 16th, 2016, 06:59 PM	#16
Racer x ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Eric Location: Iowa City Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawmeracchi 350 2010 Project X Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 54 MOTM - Sep '18, Feb '16	This is very confusing to me. I make more than 50 hp with a 250cc engine. I have spent many hours and made dozens and dozens of dyno runs and many one mile passes. I have never just snapped rods. If it was an oil problem the rods would have broken at the bearing. Or if it was excess heat the bolts would have broken and the rods would show blueing. But to just snap rods is something I have never seen. Are those forged pistons? What oil are you using? How are the valves? This is something you should get to the bottom of. __________________________________________________ Top speed 123.369mph. Ohio mile Worlds fastest 250 ninja
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

October 16th, 2016, 07:11 PM	#17
genosr1 ninjette.org member Name: geno Location: granite city Join Date: Oct 2013 Motorcycle(s): gsxr 750, sv650, 250 ninja Posts: 110	oil was fine j&e pistons a couple valves bent head dosent look damaged cct is good ill check into it soon but answer my not come as bad as it's destroyed
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

October 16th, 2016, 07:47 PM	#18
empire00 ninjette.org member Name: Sean Location: Southern IL Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 250r SE, 2015 FJ-09 Posts: 171	Rider ok? presumably alex.

October 17th, 2016, 04:52 AM	#19
Racer x ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Eric Location: Iowa City Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawmeracchi 350 2010 Project X Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 54 MOTM - Sep '18, Feb '16	I would like to see the parts laied out. Is the pin still in the number two rod small end? Next I would look at the bearings. With a failure like this I would look at the chain of events. What started the failure? The engine history. How many miles when was it modified? How much time on the modified engine? You had it full pin on the back streight. Did it over rev? What sounds do you recall? __________________________________________________ Top speed 123.369mph. Ohio mile Worlds fastest 250 ninja
	2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.

October 17th, 2016, 08:11 AM	#20
sharky nrk Fighting Texas Aggie '05 Name: Neil Location: Hutto, TX Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.	I always find these threads quite enlightening. Stock rods? Looks like it. Any reason on a build going for broke you kept them instead of putting in something more substantial? Is there a build thread I didn't pay attention to? If not could you post build specs? That is one pretty significant failure so there certainly must be some things we can learn. __________________________________________________ Keep it rubber side down and enjoy the ride Get healthy - Get Fit - Change Your Life Click Here Or PM Me To Find More - Advocare
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

October 17th, 2016, 08:19 AM	#21
Racer x ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Eric Location: Iowa City Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawmeracchi 350 2010 Project X Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 54 MOTM - Sep '18, Feb '16	I have never seen a stock rod fail like this. Except when oil sloshed up onto the bottom side of the piston. This comes from breaking hard at high RPM . The oil sloshes up and the piston stops. This will cause the rod to snap or pull the pin out of the piston. __________________________________________________ Top speed 123.369mph. Ohio mile Worlds fastest 250 ninja
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

October 17th, 2016, 09:42 AM	#22
bruce71198 ninjette.org sage Name: bruce Location: northern illinois Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): Race bikes:08 Ninja 250,11 R6,16 ZX6,SV650.3 HD-1947,2-2003,2010. 1946 Indian and a lot of dirt bikes.2 Posts: 999	Dib's on the crank

October 17th, 2016, 02:51 PM	#23
Zaph42 ninjette.org sage Name: John Location: Appleton, WI Join Date: Apr 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 (race), Ninja 1000 (road) Posts: 504	Damn, the carnage! Curious about what your build consisted of. __________________________________________________ Ninja 300 - CCS Ultralight Thunderbike Racing I want to "like" your post but I can't due to forum rules. Sorry.

October 18th, 2016, 07:07 PM	#24
mgentz Board Member Name: ... Location: WI Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 250R (street), 250R (dirt) Posts: A lot.	Dang. I have the same questions as everyone else. Please let us know what you find and what your build was made of.

October 19th, 2016, 09:03 AM	#26
jkv45 Rev Limiter Name: Jay Location: WI Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot. MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16	That's more than a 40% increase in HP from the stock numbers, so it is asking quite a bit from the stock rods and crank. Some engines can take that, and more, but not the little Ninja from the looks of it. It looks like the MR-12 is good for a 10% increase - did you rejet or run the same jetting as on pump gas? Bruce is close to 48 HP, and running it this weekend. We'll see his does at that level.
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

October 19th, 2016, 11:26 AM	#29
mgentz Board Member Name: ... Location: WI Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 250R (street), 250R (dirt) Posts: A lot.	Carrillo makes rods for the 250. Not sure about the 300 but I would assume so.

October 19th, 2016, 02:42 PM	#31
genosr1 ninjette.org member Name: geno Location: granite city Join Date: Oct 2013 Motorcycle(s): gsxr 750, sv650, 250 ninja Posts: 110	the engine has the following work ported head 13-1/2 to1 j&e pistons spears cam motor was mapped separate for pump and mr-12 motor had 1200 street miles when built we ran 6 - 25 min gt races and a handful of practice sessions some on 93 pump gas and some on u-4.4 on this motor ran good, ran mr -12 in our other stock motor with no issues more power and much better acceleration to redline for this last weekend we really wanted to put a hurtin on the local ktm guys that we were barley beating on the pump and u4, so we put in the mr-12 and mapped accordingly and got our best numbers to date, rider said motor was ticking in practice I was not there to listen, he ran 2 sessions, then motor popped 1 an1/2 laps into race bike was flying pulling away the #2 piston is the one I think came apart first, pulling the pin out and sawing the cases, I have no clue why or how #1 rod broke #2 piston had very minor seize marks nothing that makes me think that it locked up causing piston to come apart ill pull the crank out this weekend and investigate further bruce is using modified zx6 rods capable of much higher strenth
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

October 19th, 2016, 02:48 PM	#32
genosr1 ninjette.org member Name: geno Location: granite city Join Date: Oct 2013 Motorcycle(s): gsxr 750, sv650, 250 ninja Posts: 110	it kinda looks like maybe the rod pulled the piston pin out first then beat the hell out of the under side of piston then sawed thru the cases then broke your guesses are as good as mine at this point

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