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Old December 31st, 2018, 11:11 AM   #41
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Posting political topics on non-political boards serves mainly to divide up the group and cause hard feelings.
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Old December 31st, 2018, 11:30 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
Posting political topics on non-political boards serves mainly to divide up the group and cause hard feelings.
This is the off topic section.

Is it good for the country that Trump sooner belives Putin or a Saudi Prince over the US intelligence community?
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Old December 31st, 2018, 01:00 PM   #43
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Is it good for the country that Trump sooner belives Putin or a Saudi Prince over the US intelligence community?
This was back in OCT 2018:


DEC 2018:

Link to original page on YouTube.

It saddens me profoundly to hear false words hurled at Liberals, as well as Conservatives.

Those words are intended solely to divide and weaken us as a nation and as a people. We are ONE NATION.

In case you are confused as to how I believe, please read this essay. I DO believe every word of it, in case you actually have a desire to know how I think and believe, and what I want.

If you have been conditioned to be triggered by the word LIBERAL, well, that is too bad, because I wear that badge with honor. I do think, however, that a lot of you have no real idea what that means. So read on. (yes, I know it is long and might make you think. That is how learning works. I make no apologies for that.

Please read this and know that I believe EVERY WORD of it. If you disagree, and want to rant about how wrong I am, you are welcome to copy and paste my words to your own page and discuss it there.

"Troyan Jason writes:
“I've always been a liberal, but that doesn't mean what a lot of you apparently think it does.

Not every liberal is the same, though the majority of liberals I know think along roughly these same lines:

1. I believe a country should take care of its weakest members. A country cannot call itself civilized when its children, disabled, sick, and elderly are neglected. Period.

2. I believe healthcare is a right, not a privilege.
Somehow that's interpreted as "I believe Obamacare is the end-all, be-all." This is not the case. I'm fully aware that the ACA has problems, that a national healthcare system would require everyone to chip in, and that it's impossible to create one that is devoid of flaws, but I have yet to hear an argument against it that makes "let people die because they can't afford healthcare" a better alternative. I believe healthcare should be far cheaper than it is, and that everyone should have access to it. And no, I'm not opposed to paying higher taxes in the name of making that happen.

3. I believe education should be affordable and accessible to everyone.
It doesn't necessarily have to be free (though it works in other countries so I'm mystified as to why it can't work in the US), but at the end of the day, there is no excuse for students graduating college saddled with five- or six-figure debt.

4. I don't believe your money should be taken from you and given to people who don't want to work.
I have literally never encountered anyone who believes this. Ever. I just have a massive moral problem with a society where a handful of people can possess the majority of the wealth while there are people literally starving to death, freezing to death, or dying because they can't afford to go to the doctor. Fair wages, lower housing costs, universal healthcare, affordable education, and the wealthy actually paying their share would go a long way toward alleviating this. Somehow believing that makes me a communist.

5. I don't throw around "I'm willing to pay higher taxes" lightly.
If I'm suggesting something that involves paying more, well, it's because I'm fine with paying my share as long as it's actually going to something besides lining corporate pockets or bombing other countries while Americans die without healthcare.

6. I believe companies should be required to pay their employees a decent, livable wage.
Somehow this is always interpreted as me wanting burger flippers to be able to afford a penthouse apartment and a Mercedes. What it actually means is that no one should have to work three full-time jobs just to keep their head above water. Restaurant servers should not have to rely on tips, multibillion-dollar companies should not have employees on food stamps, workers shouldn't have to work themselves into the ground just to barely make ends meet, and minimum wage should be enough for someone to work 40 hours and live.

7. I am not anti-Christian.
I have no desire to stop Christians from being Christians, to close churches, to ban the Bible, to forbid prayer in school, etc. (BTW, prayer in school is NOT illegal; *compulsory* prayer in school is - and should be - illegal). All I ask is that Christians recognize *my* right to live according to *my* beliefs. When I get pissed off that a politician is trying to legislate Scripture into law, I'm not "offended by Christianity" -- I'm offended that you're trying to force me to live by your religion's rules. You know how you get really upset at the thought of Muslims imposing Sharia law on you? That's how I feel about Christians trying to impose biblical law on me. Be a Christian. Do your thing. Just don't force it on me or mine.

8. I don't believe LGBT people should have more rights than you.
I just believe they should have the *same* rights as you.

9. I don't believe illegal immigrants should come to America and have the world at their feet, especially since THIS ISN'T WHAT THEY DO (spoiler: undocumented immigrants are ineligible for all those programs they're supposed to be abusing, and if they're "stealing" your job it's because your employer is hiring illegally). I'm not opposed to deporting people who are here illegally, but I believe there are far more humane ways to handle undocumented immigration than our current practices (i.e., detaining children, splitting up families, ending DACA, etc).

10. I don't believe the government should regulate everything, but since greed is such a driving force in our country, we NEED regulations to prevent cut corners, environmental destruction, tainted food/water, unsafe materials in consumable goods or medical equipment, etc. It's not that I want the government's hands in everything -- I just don't trust people trying to make money to ensure that their products/practices/etc. are actually SAFE. Is the government devoid of shadiness? Of course not. But with those regulations in place, consumers have recourse if they're harmed and companies are liable for medical bills, environmental cleanup, etc. Just kind of seems like common sense when the alternative to government regulation is letting companies bring their bottom line into the equation.

11. I believe our current administration is fascist.
Not because I dislike them or because I can’t get over an election, but because I've spent too many years reading and learning about the Third Reich to miss the similarities. Not because any administration I dislike must be Nazis, but because things are actually mirroring authoritarian and fascist regimes of the past.

12. I believe the systemic racism and misogyny in our society is much worse than many people think, and desperately needs to be addressed.
Which means those with privilege -- white, straight, male, economic, etc. -- need to start listening, even if you don't like what you're hearing, so we can start dismantling everything that's causing people to be marginalized.

13. I am not interested in coming after your blessed guns, nor is anyone serving in government.
What I am interested in is sensible policies, including background checks, that just MIGHT save one person’s, perhaps a toddler’s, life by the hand of someone who should not have a gun. (Got another opinion? Put it on your page, not mine).

14. I believe in so-called political correctness. I prefer to think it’s social politeness.
If I call you Chuck and you say you prefer to be called Charles I’ll call you Charles. It’s the polite thing to do. Not because everyone is a delicate snowflake, but because as Maya Angelou put it, when we know better, we do better. When someone tells you that a term or phrase is more accurate/less hurtful than the one you're using, you now know better. So why not do better? How does it hurt you to NOT hurt another person?

15. I believe in funding sustainable energy, including offering education to people currently working in coal or oil so they can change jobs.
There are too many sustainable options available for us to continue with coal and oil. Sorry, billionaires. Maybe try investing in something else.

16. I believe that women should not be treated as a separate class of human. They should be paid the same as men who do the same work, should have the same rights as men and should be free from abuse. Why on earth shouldn’t they be?

I think that about covers it. Bottom line is that I'm a liberal because I think we should take care of each other. That doesn't mean you should work 80 hours a week so your lazy neighbor can get all your money. It just means I don't believe there is any scenario in which preventable suffering is an acceptable outcome as long as money is saved.

“So, I'm a liberal.”

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Old December 31st, 2018, 01:24 PM   #44
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Hey not fair!
You have access to reliable non-U.S. news and speak multiple languages!
I bet over 99% of U.S. population don't have that privilege.


#10 replace "government" with "corporations". Biggest blow to human-rights was allowing corporations to be considered "persons". Governments and traditional national boundaries are being replaced with corporations and their market-shares. Trump, being "businessman", is just part of transition to corporate takeover.
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Old December 31st, 2018, 01:30 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allanoue View Post
This is the off topic section.
I'm aware of the section it's in, and I stand behind my statement.
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Old December 31st, 2018, 02:57 PM   #46
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Hey not fair!
You have access to reliable non-U.S. news and speak multiple languages!
I bet over 99% of U.S. population don't have that privilege.
You are a human being capable of learning, even another language; start acting like one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
#10 replace "government" with "corporations". Biggest blow to human-rights was allowing corporations to be considered "persons". Governments and traditional national boundaries are being replaced with corporations and their market-shares. Trump, being "businessman", is just part of transition to corporate takeover.
Just because it's part of transition doesn't mean that you have to let it happen when you know it's wrong.
More importantly, knowing how corporations took hold of politicians who implemented government policies that allow corporations to be considered as "persons", and start repealing those poor policies.

Last futzed with by "A"; January 1st, 2019 at 05:56 AM.
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Old December 31st, 2018, 11:49 PM   #47
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Look, threads like these have essentially destroyed several other boards that I used to enjoy. This isn't the place for political education, even in off-topic. Partially because it's wholly ineffective, but possibly more importantly, because people come here to talk motorcycles while getting away from everything else that's bugging them that day. Whether politics, their job, the annoying neighbor, whatever. There are truly unlimited options on the internet to argue incessantly about politics. This doesn't have to be one of them.
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Old January 1st, 2019, 07:56 AM   #48
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#13 isn't true for many "liberals," many of them do, in fact, want to take the guns. They'll say in the same breath that AR15s should be banned and confiscated and that they don't want to take the guns.

I'm generally liberal, but I like my ARs, put that in your pipe and smoke it.
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Old January 1st, 2019, 09:07 PM   #49
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I've got no love for HRC, but HRC is not in office to influence government policy anymore. No need to bring up what HRC did or didn't do to try to justify what Trump, his family, his cabinet members, his appointees are currently doing within our government.

AFAIK, Trump is the only POTUS who cheated on his 3rd wife right after she gave birth to Baron.
The only POTUS who cheated students of their savings for higher education through his failed Trump Univ.
The only POTUS who cheated contractors and business partners for goods & services with his multiple bankruptcies and shut down of Trump Foundation, the phony foundation which used donated funds to pay politicians, pay his own lawyer fees and pay hush money to his mistresses.

It will not surprise me one bit if these GoFundMe wall donations would end up being used to benefit Trump in some ways. Instead of money for classrooms, teachers, homeless vets, crumbling roads & bridges, Trump wanted to shut down the government for a border wall.

But we have a reality TV actor for President, maybe this is all just a poor reality TV show.
Cheated on his wife maybe, but their own wife... not true
You can’t say most of this stuff is factual
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Old January 1st, 2019, 09:32 PM   #50
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Good to see you again @JohnnyBravo!
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Old January 4th, 2019, 02:51 AM   #51
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There were two choices in 2016 . Donald trump and hollers Clinton. I picked Donald trump. Because I did not feel Hillary Clinton was a sutable person to be the president of the unintended states.
Now I choose to leave this forum. Good luck
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Old January 4th, 2019, 02:59 AM   #52
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Now I choose to leave this forum. Good luck
What is gained by leaving?
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Old January 4th, 2019, 03:43 AM   #53
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@Racer x please do not leave this forum due to this thread!
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Old January 4th, 2019, 08:40 AM   #54
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We are all human, we all make mistakes, but we are all capable to learn from our mistake and strive for better.

Elections are a sham when you have private/corporate/foreign money to contribute and put up false info in ads or social media to sway elections. That's why candidates should only be allowed to use the same amount of public funding for their elections.

Electing for government officials should never be about how much money one can raise for their campaign.

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What is gained by leaving?
The same could be asked of non-participants in elections.
USA have some of the lowest participation rate of elections in the world.
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Old January 4th, 2019, 09:39 AM   #55
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I’m not sure how far it will go because I think it has been tried in the past but Ted Cruz has introduced a constitutional amendment to put term limits on both sides of congress. That would be a good step in reforming the political system.
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Old January 4th, 2019, 12:07 PM   #56
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