So who would actually buy a Zx2r?

[iceman.kcmo]

Im sure there would be a good enough market here in the US for a 4cyl 250cc street bike. I think it would be all i would need. I wouldn't have to buy a 600, but maybe thats the problem. It would probally take away from sales of the 600.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[CZroe]

AND it would steal some sales from the current 250. I would totally buy one, but they'd probably only introduce it if the competition made a 250. IOW, steal back any customers that may consider the competition's 250 with a better 250 and sell the other customers the standard model.

[iceman.kcmo]

Someone made a pretty good point in this thread about someone like honda makeing a 250 again. like the cbr250rr. That would Really steal the thunder from Kawi. Maybe i should contact one of the other companys.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39354

[kkim]

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6425&

[Snake]

I would most definetly buy one. Would make a great bike even better.

WOW 4 into 1 exhaust.

[Cedilla]

When I first looked at the thread title I thought of a late nineties two door escort. However in either case I don't think I would. A high performance 4cyl 250 would probably cost almost as much as a 600.

[Racer x]

I think a 600 4 cylinder is better than a 250 cc 4 cylinder . A 600cc bike has 100 hp at 9000 or 10000 RPM. That is much better than 55 at 17000 RPM .When riding on the street or the track.They both weigh 350 to 375 lb .They would cost the about the same because of the components .

Besides, by the time the EPA got done with the 250 screamer it would have about 35 hp and no torque.The only way to get them EPA compliant is to drop the compression . And add a converter.

What I would like to see is a 250 four stroke twin with a ball bearing crank and trans. Putting out 35 hp with 20 ft lb of torque . An aluminum frame and real Olines suspension . All tipping the scale at 300 lb or less.

[Mista Bob]

I considered picking up a ZX2R or CBR 250R, but I figured that it would be even more cramped then my ZZR 250 so I passed.

It's actually pretty easy to get one up here in Canada if you wanted one.
Can you not import them in the States?

[sombo]

Ummmm actually racerx, Japan has a MUCH higher EPA requirement then in the US. In fact, the US has one of the lowest EPA standards of the modern world. That's why they were allowed to make the 250 still be carb'd while in most other countries, especially in European countries, they had to go with the FI. The carb'd version doesn't meet the EU's EPA standards and therefore isn't allowed over there.

The reason they won't bring it here is the same reason they didn't in the past. The US is fixated on 'bigger is better' and manufacturers send their biggest and most powerful bikes to the US cause they know they can sell them here.

If they did bring back the ZX2R (which they could do since they still make that motor in Japan) they could bring it here still making 55hp easily with little to no change to the exhaust.

The standard that the US does have higher then most countries however is car safety equipment. The US has a much higher safety standard then most of the world which is why cars here are heavier and usually slower then in other parts of the world.

[ninjabrewer]

hmm, I doubt it. I already have the 250 and if/when I get another bike, it will most probably be a Daytona 675. So I vote Nah.

nb

[Flow]

Already have a ZX6R(recently sold my 650R, still have my 250R), so I'd love a ZX2R just for the fun of it.

[Daeldren]

Originally Posted by Racer x

What I would like to see is a 250 four stroke twin with a ball bearing crank and trans. Putting out 35 hp with 20 ft lb of torque . An aluminum frame and real Olines suspension . All tipping the scale at 300 lb or less.

It would put it around the same field as the RS125, which would make a hell of a street/track bike.

[Racer x]

Originally Posted by sombo

Ummmm actually racerx, Japan has a MUCH higher EPA requirement then in the US. In fact, the US has one of the lowest EPA standards of the modern world. That's why they were allowed to make the 250 still be carb'd while in most other countries, especially in European countries, they had to go with the FI. The carb'd version doesn't meet the EU's EPA standards and therefore isn't allowed over there.

The reason they won't bring it here is the same reason they didn't in the past. The US is fixated on 'bigger is better' and manufacturers send their biggest and most powerful bikes to the US cause they know they can sell them here.

If they did bring back the ZX2R (which they could do since they still make that motor in Japan) they could bring it here still making 55hp easily with little to no change to the exhaust.

The standard that the US does have higher then most countries however is car safety equipment. The US has a much higher safety standard then most of the world which is why cars here are heavier and usually slower then in other parts of the world.

You are correct. I did not think about it like that.

[Racer x]

Originally Posted by Daeldren

It would put it around the same field as the RS125, which would make a hell of a street/track bike.

I was thinking more along the lines of a low power RS 250
but a hi power 125 sounds better

[Mo1981]

I would probably trade the 250 for it, as long as the price is right.
Posted via Mobile Device

[demp]

I'd definitely be interested - all of your cocerned about price obviously don't realize how expensive insurance ona a 600/1000 is for some of us.... when I was 20 I was getting quotes of 20,000 + on an R1, I think it was something like 17,000 on the R6... point is, for me at least ,that it's the insurance that's the problem not the cost of the bike =(

[Flashmonkey]

The reason 4 cylinder 250cc engine's no longer exist is because of manufacturing costs. To create one now would mean that kawi would have to create new die's, new production lines, and create a whole new supply chain of smaller, 250cc sized parts (ie: valves, pistons, etc) that simply don't exist right now.

Keep dreaming fellas....the only way you'll ever see one of these kinds of engines again is if the entire world banned motorcycles with 600cc engines or higher.

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

the entire world banned motorcycles with 600cc engines or higher.

Oh no, when did this happen?

I'd buy a 4 cylinder 250 if it had over 50hp and weighed under 300lbs.

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Oh no, when did this happen?

I think it was between the last ice age and the zombie apocalypse. I could be wrong, though.

[sombo]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

The reason 4 cylinder 250cc engine's no longer exist is because of manufacturing costs. To create one now would mean that kawi would have to create new die's, new production lines, and create a whole new supply chain of smaller, 250cc sized parts (ie: valves, pistons, etc) that simply don't exist right now.

Keep dreaming fellas....the only way you'll ever see one of these kinds of engines again is if the entire world banned motorcycles with 600cc engines or higher.

Incorrect, they still make the 250cc I4 motor in Japan on a naked sport bike. They still make the 400cc I4 motor in Japan on a naked sport bike as well. They just don't release them to anyone outside of Japan is all.

Kawasaki Japanese Balius II web page.

Kawasaki Japanese ZRX-400 web page.


Still make them, but won't let us have them.

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by sombo

Incorrect, they still make the 250cc I4 motor in Japan on a naked sport bike. They still make the 400cc I4 motor in Japan on a naked sport bike as well. They just don't release them to anyone outside of Japan is all.

Kawasaki Japanese Balius II web page.

Kawasaki Japanese ZRX-400 web page.


Still make them, but won't let us have them.

Oh those are old bikes that they just continued to manufacture it seems. I believe (from a casual google search) that both of those examples were born in the late 80's and early 90's. Well, since those bikes still exist, it may be possible to get a zx-2r off the ground if they wanted to.

[sombo]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

Oh those are old bikes that they just continued to manufacture it seems. I believe (from a casual google search) that both of those examples were born in the late 80's and early 90's. Well, since those bikes still exist, it may be possible to get a zx-2r off the ground if they wanted to.

That's my point, they still make the old motors that were used in the 90's ZX2R. They most likely have been slightly updated in the way that 250cc P2 has been updated. All they would really have to do is make a full fairing set for that Balius II and maybe change the seat a bit and we'd be in business.

Too bad that will never happen though cause I swear they hate the US. Hell they never gave us the EX250H (ZZR250) in the US, but they gave them to Canada and Europe. We also never saw the old ZX2R but other countries like Australia and England got them as 'gray' imports. If they build a new ZX2R with the I4 I wouldn't be surprised if they offered everywhere BUT they US.

[cnichols79us]

I am totally moving to Japan when I win the Lottery for like a month, then moving back with all my new badass Motorcycles we can't get over here.

[karlosdajackal]

Originally Posted by sombo

That's my point, they still make the old motors that were used in the 90's ZX2R. They most likely have been slightly updated in the way that 250cc P2 has been updated. All they would really have to do is make a full fairing set for that Balius II and maybe change the seat a bit and we'd be in business.

Too bad that will never happen though cause I swear they hate the US. Hell they never gave us the EX250H (ZZR250) in the US, but they gave them to Canada and Europe. We also never saw the old ZX2R but other countries like Australia and England got them as 'gray' imports. If they build a new ZX2R with the I4 I wouldn't be surprised if they offered everywhere BUT they US.

Why don't you buy one as a gray import, like Australians and English people did? Nobody is going to hand one to you on a plate, if you want one go get one. A guy I work with is riding a CBR250RR not sure its the most practical bike in the world, starts producing power at 11k tops out at 19k! Small enough tank for going through all that juice to produce the power. But its pretty unique, I think I've only seen 4 of them on the road in the last 10 years.

They go on the 2nd hand market for reasonable money similar price to the 400cc ninjas, very close to 600cc prices, partially because they are rare. If kawa where to do such a thing they would have to call the Ninja 250r the ER2-f and then the new bike the Ninja 250RR.

Anyway unlike most of the rest of the world in the states you can get whatever bike you want, most other countries had cc restrictions hence such machines where created to max out the regulations. Most countries have got rid of the cc restrictions and gone to power/power-to-weight rules so these cc specials don't even have a niche market anymore, the ninja 250r is built right up to the limit of the current average European country regulations and it keeps selling out, its no coincidence.

If your in the USA and you want a more powerful supersport get a 600, simple as that. Anything you think a I4 250 can do, can be done better by a P2 twin in either 250 or 650 capacities. Within the weight power and styles you mentioned it can all be done with other existing parts, so I'd either import one of these or forget about it totally.

[Flashmonkey]

I like the idea of a racy little I4 250cc as much as anybody. I almost bought a CBR250RR as my first bike but decided against it for practicality's sake (didn't want to have to sit around waiting for parts to come in from England).

Would I like to see kawi come out with an I4 250? Well....they already have the Ninjette, and to be honest, I think that's a damn good bike right there. They only way they could improve upon that would be to make the engine an L-twin and give it more of a ducati sound.

I just don't think an I4 250cc engine would be all that great on the street. Everyone complains about the useless low end of an I4 600 bike...imagine how bad the low end power of an I4 250cc would be. First gear would be short as hell! And highway riding would probably suck too. I think one of the complaints I've heard from some of the grey bike owners is how how the bike revs during highway cruising.

Now a zx-4r is a different story. I'd buy one of those....I'd buy the hell out of one of those! Or even a two stroke 250...I think they already have one of those floating around in Asia. They'd definitely have to bring it over as a limited production, niche market bike.....but even if they charged $10,000 for it I'd buy it. I'll always have room in my stable for a hooligan bike. I just hope they make the seat big enough for me.

[iceman.kcmo]

So how would i go about doing a "grey import" or finding one in canada?

[ckholloway]

I would buy zx2r so fast it wouldn't even be funny.

[Mista Bob]

Originally Posted by iceman.kcmo

So how would i go about doing a "grey import" or finding one in canada?

Heres one place that imports them in Canada, I'm sure there's plenty more though.
http://www.windbell.ca/motorcycle.html

[Daeldren]

There is the Moriwaki MDH250 which is a purpose built track bike that uses a single cylinder 250cc engine from honda's motorcross bikes. It is pretty much what we are looking for a gp 4 stroke replacement to the 125cc bikes. Once again the only downside is it's a track bike and it costs more than the RS125.

around 250lbs and 32 hp.

[bdavison]

Actually, the reason us Americans got the Carbed version instead of the FI version is because Kawasaki couldnt make the FI version in the price range that american buyers would buy it.

Me personally, Id like to see a I4 400 make it to the states.

[tjkamper]

I'd really like to pick up a 4 cyl 250. The only problem with the ZX 2R is that for some reason I don't like the styling. It is too round and bulky.

Now if they made it look more like the 6R and maybe even slimmed down the pasanger seat to look like a the Yamaha R6. That would be the perfect bike.

Forgive my lack of photoshop skills, but here is what I think a Yamasaki YZX R-250-R would look like.

[JeffM]

I absolutely love the sound the ZX2R in the video makes. I really wish the U.S. market would get away from the bigger is better thing and some of the other manufactures would import their 250's and 400's.

Jeff

[sombo]

Originally Posted by bdavison

Actually, the reason us Americans got the Carbed version instead of the FI version is because Kawasaki couldnt make the FI version in the price range that american buyers would buy it.

Me personally, Id like to see a I4 400 make it to the states.

Yes, that is the reason. But it's our lower emission standards that allows them to be able to do so. If our emission standards were the same as EU's then they wouldn't have been able to use the carb's here either.



Anyone know where in the States we could try doing a gray import? And then I guess one of the Koso digital gauge sets might work to convert it to MPH.

[Daeldren]

I just don't see a reason why there is no development with single 500 race bikes anymore, I mean heck the Norton Manx was a single and it was pushing out around 50 bhp back in the 1950's, track tuned they could do around 140 mph.

If MotoGP phases out the 2 stroke 125cc bikes with single or twin 250 4 strokes we may see a street boom for low displacement gp style bikes again, hopefully. Lets just hope they decide to bring them to the US.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Daeldren

There is the Moriwaki MDH250 which is a purpose built track bike that uses a single cylinder 250cc engine from honda's motorcross bikes. It is pretty much what we are looking for a gp 4 stroke replacement to the 125cc bikes. Once again the only downside is it's a track bike and it costs more than the RS125.

around 250lbs and 32 hp.

Those are some large-lookin' rimsfor such a small bike, but it has the HP to use 'em I guess.

[sharky nrk]

the Moriwaki is awesome. Sport Rider recently had a comparo between it and the RS125. Two different levels all together. That little Honda rips. BTW the wheels are normal sized 17in hoops, the bike is just that small.

[FrugalNinja250]

...it'd have to be used because when I looked at these a couple of years ago it looks like they'd be well over $6k USD. At that price in this country they'd be more of a novelty than anything.

[sp33d]

Well i own a zx2r and it is a BIG step up from the zzr/gpx/gpz and new 250r. The powerband you get from 10/11k - 14k is unreal. It blows you away the kind of power this little 250 can summon.
If you compare the jet sizes on the carburetors, a honda vtr250 has sizes 96, the new 250r has 110, zzr/gpz/x has 98/100 sizes. The zx-2r has main jet size 125. Thats alot of fuel being let in to the engine, along with the air filter if anyone has noticed is shaped into a pod, not the flat spongy sheet like other bikes. this is where alot of the power gain is from.
I am in the process of gettin rid of the stock airbox and filter and putting a K&N on it that directly flows into the carbs and going to rejet it with bigger jets. Only problem is as this bike is not recognised in the US there arent any jet kits for it from either dynojet or factory pro or two bros. japan is the only place you will get parts, so importers beware its an absolute nightmare to hunt down parts unless you get lucky at a wreckers!

[Xoulrath]

Well, I voted that I would buy one not needing a 600, but I wouldn't necessarily say I that I wouldn't want a 600 or 750 or liter bike as a higher performance track day weapon and occasional street bike.

The thing I like about my 250 is the low cost of overall ownership (maintenance, fuel, insurance, repairs. etc.). The thing I don't like about my 250 is power, or rather, lack thereof. If I could get a bike that had about double the power of the 250R with a weight that was in the 300lbs ballpark with a more performance-oriented suspension from the factory, that still came close to providing a lower cost of ownership than a bigger bike and was still capable of delivering 50+ mpg (when not beaten to hell, of course) I would trade my 250R on it in a second. And I'd be willing to pay somewhere in the $7,000 range. I'm pretty sure it's doable.

Even with my limited road riding experience, I have found myself going waaaay too fast on some roads simply because the bike can do it. Albeit it not to the degree a bigger bike can, but what the hell is the point of saying you can get to 60 in 3 seconds, when the bike is capable of 10-11 second quarters pulling upwards of 135+? Liter bikes are even more ridiculous. You simply can't do that on the streets, not safely anyway. No matter how good a rider you are, there are simply too many variables. A 50-ish hp ZX-2R seems like it would be the perfect street bike. You could actually get away with using more of the bikes actual performance capabilities in spirited riding and still remain in a safe zone on public roads.

I think Americans in general just automatically think bigger is better unfortunately and it simply isn't true. There are plenty of times where it is true, but there are plenty of times when it isn't. This logic is why we will probably NEVER see a ZX-2R stateside.

[Thrak]

Originally Posted by Daeldren

If MotoGP phases out the 2 stroke 125cc bikes with single or twin 250 4 strokes we may see a street boom for low displacement gp style bikes again, hopefully. Lets just hope they decide to bring them to the US.

How many 800cc bikes have you seen on the street from the big 4? I havent seen 1...

I wouldnt hold my breath waiting for GP rule changes to push a new breed of street bike to market.