moving up: a choice of two bikes

[Toly]

I am thinking about moving up to a bigger bike. The choice is down to two bikes: cbr600rr and fz6r. I know these are in somewhat different categories, but I'd like to hear from folks who rode them and hear the input on which one they would prefer and why. My mission would be street / highway riding.

Thanks!
-Toly.

[scotty]

If your just using the bike to go to A-B then the fz6r would be ideal. Would be more cozzy to ride. The honda in a super sport so would most likly become a pain riding longer distance. Really thr choice comes down to you. What bike fits you the best for your needs?

[mrlmd]

Make sure you also check out the cost of insurance before you get either one of those. You may be in for a big surprise when you see the bill.

[backinthesaddleagain]

I had theFZ6R on my long list. But my short list came down to wanting to get a bike that I felt would really "move" me. Didn't consider the CBR at first but after talking to people and reading up on them it was my final of 3 choices. PM me if you want to know more.
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[tiggen]

Originally Posted by Toly

I am thinking about moving up to a bigger bike. The choice is down to two bikes: cbr600rr and fz6r. I know these are in somewhat different categories, but I'd like to hear from folks who rode them and hear the input on which one they would prefer and why. My mission would be street / highway riding.

Thanks!
-Toly.

My first street bike was the old FZ6 and my second street bike was an 08 600RR. First track bike was a 04 600RR. I loved them all.

The 04 600RR was confidence inspiring. Still probably my favorite bike.

The 08 600RR was fun, but just way more than you will ever need on the street. Every bit as comfortable as the more upright FZ6, as long as you are doing 65-70.

The FZ6 (slightly different to the new one) had to be revved to the **** before the engine did anything. Kind of a pain pulling away from lights, but on the back roads it was a blast. The fact that you could/had to rev it more made you feel like you were thrashing it more than the 600RR. (Rev the 600RR up and you are going too fast, period.) Around town it worked fine. Took it cross country, too. Did everything I ever asked of it.

[tiggen]

Originally Posted by mrlmd

Make sure you also check out the cost of insurance before you get either one of those. You may be in for a big surprise when you see the bill.

+1. Esp if you are young or live in an urban area. I moved from rural VA to Atlanta shortly after buying the 08, and I kept it for less than a year. Insurance costs were a large part of that. F%$^ing R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S.

[Toly]

Thanks! Last time I checked, the insurance quote was reasonable on both.

I like that you can rev the heck outta Ninja and still ride the sane speeds - I would hate to ride the bike at 30% of its capacity.

But I'd like a bike that can really move when asked, and to handle really well - if one can graduate to using most of CBR's potential on the street, and being semi-legal, its great... but if the real fun doesn't start this side of triple digits, that would be a shame.

So, pls, real world riding feedback is most welcome!

[backinthesaddleagain]

I commute on mine (backroad or highway) but its only 20 miles each way. Have done aroud 120 mile backroad rides so can't talk about how a longer ride would be. But its pretty comfortable to sit up on or crouch on. Took anbout a week for my body to acclimate to it. Will do a trackday in June. Steady on the highway, stable in corners, and easy to turn. Strong brakes but not overly biting. I have ABS. Good pickup withj smooth powerband. Good mid range and a good hit around 9K RPM.
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[coondog]

two totally different bikes ride wise, so purpose wise. figure what you want, from seating to power there if you want it (need it) or power there no matter what you care.

[EuphCW1]

Originally Posted by Toly

...I like that you can rev the heck outta Ninja and still ride the sane speeds - I would hate to ride the bike at 30% of its capacity.

But I'd like a bike that can really move when asked, and to handle really well - if one can graduate to using most of CBR's potential on the street, and being semi-legal, its great... but if the real fun doesn't start this side of triple digits, that would be a shame.

So, pls, real world riding feedback is most welcome!

You will not come remotely close to using most of the CBR's potential on the street if you value your license and insurance rates. If you rev the heck out of the CBR, you will be breaking the law shortly after shifting in to second. Luckily, the midrange is isn't bad so you don't necessarily have to rev into the stratosphere for some spirited riding below the speed limit.

It is a well-rounded bike (for a supersport) and surprisingly comfy on longer rides. Quality is good, and its ability to handle a corner is phenomenal.

[TrueFaith]

The riding position on these 2 bikes is at either end of the spectrum. The CBR600RR position is quite aggressive while the FZ6R is much more upright and sedate. You need to sit on both at a dealer before you continue your deliberations. Either bike looks good on paper, but no matter how much you like everything else about a bike, trying out the riding position is a "make or break" for a bike selection. You really can't make a decision like this without knowing which feels best for you first.

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by Toly

I would hate to ride the bike at 30% of its capacity.

Hell, I cannot ride my 250 at much over 30% of its capacity.

[Toly]

I sat on both of these bikes (plus many others), and the riding position was good on both, I liked the flexibility of riding position on yamaha, although laying down on its tank wasn't very comfy - seems it's designed for mostly upright riding. The CBR was a lot more aggressive, but most comfy of all supersports. I am now trying to get a feel of how engaging and fun to ride are these two bikes on the street ast ane speeds.

[wvninja]

I love my CBR

[Reswob]

Definitely CBR. Isn't the FZ6 like a Ninja 650 (even more upright riding position than the 250R)?

[Toly]

Originally Posted by Reswob

Definitely CBR. Isn't the FZ6 like a Ninja 650 (even more upright riding position than the 250R)?

Yeah, FZ6 seems a bit too upright, but it can be adjusted somewhat.
I'm trying to gauge how its riding dynamics compares to CBR for daily riding. On the track there is no contest, but which one would provide a better combo of fun and comfort on streets, highways and backroads?

Thanks to everyone who replied so far!

[gitoy]

toly...buy the cbr for hooliganism and keep the 250 for commuting...who said you can't have two bikes?...

that's what i did...

[Raven]

CBR, hands down.

[sombo]

Got to ride a demo on the FZ6R at Daytona Bike Week today. I love it. It's smooth, comfortable, feels solid, and looks good. Personally I'm in the boat that prefers the more upright of a sport-touring (like the pre-gen 250, the 650R, the 650F, and the FZ6R) over the leaned over the bike and put more weight on your wrists position of bikes like the CBR.

I was impressed with the FZ6R today. I gotta be honest, I was nervous at first about riding a 600cc bike for the first time after spending the last 12k miles getting used to the characteristics of my little 250. I was worried I would screw up or scare myself with the power. However, it was really quite well behaved. The power-band is similar to the ninjette with you feeling a noticeable power gain beyond half-way of the rev range. It definitely has more power then the ninjette, but it's very smooth, refined, and not crazy power. The ride itself is MUCH smoother then my aging little friend. I did get to see and feel the whole rev range (it has a dummy light at red-line to shift lol) thanks to our guide that told us from the start he likes to accelerate hard from turns or lights so we can get a good feel of the bikes. The seat was nicely shaped, had just the right amount of stiffness and cushion to make it quite comfy. The suspension is stronger then the ninjette (no more back and forth from a too soft suspension when speeding up and slowing down) yet it was not harsh at all. In fact I think it did better at absorbing the contours and bumps of the road. Overall it's a great bike for doing anything and going for long or short rides.

[Xoulrath]

Originally Posted by Toly

I sat on both of these bikes (plus many others), and the riding position was good on both, I liked the flexibility of riding position on yamaha, although laying down on its tank wasn't very comfy - seems it's designed for mostly upright riding. The CBR was a lot more aggressive, but most comfy of all supersports.

The Yamaha is essentially a standard motorcycle wrapped in a fairing. It was made to appeal to a larger range of riders who may want sportbike looks in a real world package. The Yamaha is going to be more comfortable for most people between the two bikes you list.

Originally Posted by Toly

I am now trying to get a feel of how engaging and fun to ride are these two bikes on the street at sane speeds.

I am curious: Why are you trying to get a feel for how engaging these two particular bikes are? Is your Ninja 250 not engaging and fun? I am personally looking for another bike myself at the moment, but I would say my little Ninja is ridiculously engaging and fun. The primary reason I am looking for another bike has to do with lack of power in a straight line as I am a very large guy, and losing weight is simply impossible. So I am looking more for acceleration than anything. If the 250R had about 15 more ponies, I wouldn't be in the market for a new bike at all.

How long have you been riding? Have you taken a rider education course? Have you invested in any books that deal with motorcycles and the necessary skills? Before you get what is essentially a 90% track ready bike with headlights (CBR600RR), you may want to assess the pilot's skill first. I know I still have a lot to learn and I am taking my next bike purchase very seriously so as not to get in over my head.

[sombo]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

I know I still have a lot to learn and I am taking my next bike purchase very seriously so as not to get in over my head.

That's just how I feel which is why I am taking advantage of the demo rides at bike week. I didn't get there today in time to sign up for the 650r (they filled up all the sportbike slots by 1000 and I didn't get there till 1020 ). Suzuki didn't have the 650F to demo because they don't have a 2011 model (they said they just have so many 2010's out there they had no need for a 2011 model). I did of course get to ride the FZ6R and loved it (read previous post). I also got to ride a Spyder RS with the 5 speed semi-automatic. What a different type of ride that is. Was fun, just really different.

[blubyu]

I LOVE my cibber

There are some very nice twisties not too far away from where I live. The first time I took Emily out on them I could not stop grinning. The cornering ability of this bike is amazing.

I always thought that I would it would be too easy getting in over my head on her when I first got her. I was so used to hitting the twisties with my 250 that I thought the extra power would get me in trouble. Not so far it hasn't. I am 43 so I would like to think that I am a little more level headed when I ride.

Last year I took the her from washington state down to Reno. On the way down my friend and I made it a two day trip. On the way back we rode straight through. Now I am built like a tella tubby so we did have to stop about every hour and half or so (he rides a viffer). But in general the bike is a lot more comfortable then I thought it was going to be.

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by Toly

I'm trying to gauge how its riding dynamics compares to CBR for daily riding.

A large part of the riding dynamics depends on the rider. I'm pretty sure you want the cbr....just get the cbr.

[thurt88]

I was faced with the same dilemma less than a month ago. I got the CBR. Im not a young spring chicken, Im 39, and I gotta say that the riding position is uncomfortable as hell and my wrists hurt every time I take it out. Im gonna chalk that up to me being out of shape and also not used to the bikes riding position. I think with a little more time, I wont be so sore.

I will say that the power is pretty crazy on the CBR and it will definitely "move" you.

[Toly]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

I am curious: Why are you trying to get a feel for how engaging these two particular bikes are? Is your Ninja 250 not engaging and fun? I am personally looking for another bike myself at the moment, but I would say my little Ninja is ridiculously engaging and fun. The primary reason I am looking for another bike has to do with lack of power in a straight line <snip>

How long have you been riding? Have you taken a rider education course? Have you invested in any books that deal with motorcycles and the necessary skills? Before you get what is essentially a 90% track ready bike with headlights (CBR600RR), you may want to assess the pilot's skill first. I know I still have a lot to learn and I am taking my next bike purchase very seriously so as not to get in over my head.

I've been riding for about six months - not much, but enough to see the bike's and rider's limitations, lol. Totally agree that the latter is crucial for further success.

With that in mind, I'm ready to tackle something with more torque, especially for highway riding. Sure, Ninja is a lot of fun, and sure, it can still teach me a lot, but so are other sportbikes, so why not.

[JeffM]

Toly, read this. You are still a beginner:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Why_spo...ginner_bikes_1

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Why_spo...ginner_bikes_2

[Live2ride]

Originally Posted by JeffM

Toly, read this. You are still a beginner:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Why_spo...ginner_bikes_1

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Why_spo...ginner_bikes_2

very good references. When I first began seriously considering motorcycles, I had my mind set on an 04-06 yamaha r1 (just because it looks bada$$ imho). Then my step brother rolled up on his 2010 ninja 250r. After taking the msf course he let me ride his bike and boy did I love every second of it. I couldn't get off the thing and I realized that, even at 6"3' and 250lbs, when I twisted that throttle wide open it had more than enough power for everyday riding. I decided then that the 250 was perfect for me. Plus the 60mpg's will significantly reduce my gas costs from my 11mpg Chevy Tahoe . But if you have money to spare to get a practical bike I'd go with the fz6, I've heard great reviews about it and it looks great too

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by thurt88

I was faced with the same dilemma less than a month ago. I got the CBR. Im not a young spring chicken, Im 39, and I gotta say that the riding position is uncomfortable as hell and my wrists hurt every time I take it out. Im gonna chalk that up to me being out of shape and also not used to the bikes riding position. I think with a little more time, I wont be so sore.

I will say that the power is pretty crazy on the CBR and it will definitely "move" you.

Tommy how many miles on the CBR so far? I felt discomfort the first few hundred miles in the hands/wrists and lower back but it fully went away. 5'9" here. At 5,200 miles it feels natural. If anything I would like to angle the clipons about a half inch forward, but not much clearance toward to front fairing.

[Daeldren]

This is why I wish Kawasaki still had the ZZR 600. It was for all intensive purposes a rebadged zx600 with better ergo's. You get your supersport package that can actually be ridden for a decent distance. The FZ6R is an odd bike in my opinion, its competing with the sv and ninja but has a retooled r6 motor.

I liked the older fz6 but I would rather have a SV650 or jump to the cbr.

[rockNroll]

Get the CBR.

[gitoy]

Originally Posted by Daeldren

This is why I wish Kawasaki still had the ZZR 600. It was for all intensive purposes a rebadged zx600 with better ergo's. You get your supersport package that can actually be ridden for a decent distance. The FZ6R is an odd bike in my opinion, its competing with the sv and ninja but has a retooled r6 motor.

I liked the older fz6 but I would rather have a SV650 or jump to the cbr.

kenneth, even though the zzr600 isn't made anymore there are still plenty of used ones...yes the zzr600 has better ergos than the cbr but the 250 is still the best for commuting...

why don't you guys just get them all...that's what i did...

[Domagoj]

It looks to me that you are thinking very much the same what I was thinking after ~6 months of riding. I was totally in love with that cbr600rr. I am very glad now that I haven't spent money on a more powerful motorcycle though.

I realized that there is so much to learn about riding well. And you can learn all of it with a small engine. If you are an average guy who works during the week, and if you take into account all the crap you simply have to do every day, it turns out that you have left a few hours of weekend fun for your bike, and in my opinion that just isn't enough time to say that after a year you have reached the limits of the bike. Add to that low cost, low insurance, good mpg, and there is not much doubt left in my mind about the real life value of the little ninja.

On the other hand, if you are at the track every week, if you have developed trust in your bike and built up your confidence to the level that you have no fear anymore, in any circumstances, then, yes, go for the power of dreams and enjoy it. That bike is so awesome

[Raven]

Toly, just saw you said you have been riding for 6 months on 250R. How much have you logged on your bike? 15,000-20,000 miles sound good to move on. If you have the patience and respect for 600's unforgiving power, not trying to be some racer legend then you should be fine. Some people start or jump to 1000cc and rides it but never crashed because they probably never went into the super insane rpm ranges that lead to hairy situations.

[Toly]

15K on a Ninjette to get proficient?? You guys are kidding me I have all of 700

To be honest, you guys have a good point... Frankly, you can perceive yourself as a level-headed, intelligent and mature person, and yet there are situations where an inexperienced rider on a powerful bike is guaranteed a serious injury - either to his body, or his pride.

Case in point... the other day I was out-cornered by a freaking *minivan* (altho on a wet road) I don't know how it happened, but it did... I just could not catch up with the dude on the curve Being a newish rider on a Ninja, I let it go... had I been on CBR, and had anyone been watching, I would have rather crashed trying to catch up with the mofo, than die of embarrassment... duh

[wvninja]

On a 600cc .. 1k to 9k rpm is nothing .. 9k-15k the bike is another beast.

I think the ninja is a great learning tool but lets not be suprised by the fact that a lot of people own them for a short time and buy bigger.

Originally Posted by Toly

Case in point... the other day I was out-cornered by a freaking *minivan* (altho on a wet road) I don't know how it happened, but it did... I just could not catch up with the dude on the curve Being a newish rider on a Ninja, I let it go... had I been on CBR, and had anyone been watching, I would have rather crashed trying to catch up with the mofo, than die of embarrassment... duh

This statement says a lot about you and your ride style. IMO stick with the 250 if your worried about how you look riding rather than respecting your ability and the bike your on. The 250 while small is VERY quick in the twisties and while I've not attempted to grind a peg on a wet surface, I did have my ninja grinding pegs on the often.

I get out cornered and passed all the time weither it be on the highway or back roads (usually don't get passed on a back road though). I could care less about someone thinking I look cool or not or feeling I have to be better than them just because I'm on a bike. It's a lifestyle, its about fun, its about knowing your on the ride and enjoying it. If you want thrills, speed, and pushing it to the limits.. take it to the track.

I almost learned the hard way, I was trying to keep up with a very experienced 600 rider on my 250 on a backroad I didn't know. I went way to hot into a double apex turn and ran out of road at the end of the corner. I was lucky because I just went into the gravel and was able to keep the bike up. The guy behind me pulled up to me as I came to a stop and said, "I thought you were done, don't be in a hurry, he will be there when we get there, ride at your own pace, its not a race man." ... I took that to heart and you should too.

[Live2ride]

Originally Posted by Toly

15K on a Ninjette to get proficient?? You guys are kidding me I have all of 700

wow, I plan on putting more than 700 miles on my 250 the first week I get one . It seems that many people do find that they want to upgrade after around 1k-3k miles or that's at least how many most people seem to sell them at. I personally need a bike with great gas mileage and a comfortable position and it seems that the 250 meets exactly that. If your going to be commuting then the fz6r would be nice for longer rides. If your looking for a bike that has a bunch of power for riding the twisties and more than enough on the straights then the cbr is for you.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Toly

15K on a Ninjette to get proficient?? You guys are kidding me I have all of 700

Said more clearly, it takes 15K or more on motorcycles in general before a rider has the most basic level of proficiency. Ninjette, literbike, or cruiser. The bike matters not a whit at that point. Which is why it is so entertaining when a rider states that they've learned everything they can know on a 250 and need to move up to continue learning, yet they haven't even put in a single full day's worth of decent riding in.

Nothing wrong with buying whatever bike one wants. Nothing (at least morally) wrong with starting out on whatever bike one chooses. But a rider with 700 miles has virtually zero experience, and riding faster/safer/better has nothing to do with the bike they are on.

[Sailariel]

I would stick to the Ninja unless you have long commutes like I did when I went to see my mother 500mi away. Even with a Corbin seat, ZG Touring windshield, and a 15T sprocket, I felt like I got beat up pretty good when I arrived at my destination. I would have been better off with the Yamaha.

Now, when it comes to the fun factor, the Ninja has most bikes beat--especially if you are a novice. I have been riding since 1958 and have to say, in all honesty that the Ninja could teach me a lot.

My NT-700V is a sport-touring bike--which means that it is a lousy sport bike but a higher performing touring bike. With this bike the accent is on touring. Compared to the Ninja, it is a truck that makes no pretense as to how it is to be used. For what I need at my age and my back injury, it keeps me riding. It is also a very sharp looking bike.

The key is to honestly evaluate your skill level and buy accordingly. I suspect that you are quite young and that you will probably have quite a few bikes in the future. Enjoy each bike for what it is and proceed slowly savoring each bike.

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by Toly

With that in mind, I'm ready to tackle something with more torque, especially for highway riding. Sure, Ninja is a lot of fun, and sure, it can still teach me a lot, but so are other sportbikes, so why not.

You buying new? I'd recommend that you check out some of the upright nakeds they have on the market....street triple and such...

More torque, more power, but without the aggressive steering geometry and the aggressive riding position. Those are the two things that, in my opinion, may overwhelm novice riders who jump onto a supersport before they're ready. Low speed maneuvering is probably something you're still struggling at as well....being upright will help with that. Trying to u-turn on an SS style bike is a pain in the butt. Parking, backing into/out of a spot, slow speed maneuvering...they all become much harder.

There's nothing wrong with wanting a particular style of bike or wanting a larger bike...it's natural. That ninja that you're riding right now is a hell of a bike, though. Don't upgrade because you feel inadequate riding a "pretend" motorcycle. That bike is awesome...and it is the only bike that will reward you with the feeling of being able to ride it close to it's limits on a public road. No other bike will allow you to go WOT into a turn...or let you bounce off the rev limiter in every gear after each stop light all the while allowing you to remain well within your riding limitations (provided you've reached that point). To be honest, if you haven't done that yet then you're missing the real charm of that bike. It makes you feel like a damn superhero despite the fact that you're probably riding 10 under the limit. Upgrading to a larger bike will rob you of that...and despite the fact that you will gain other benefits...you will miss being able to flog a bike like that without buying track time....or coming close to death.

The nakeds I've mentioned will give you a similar experience, albeit with a lot more power. They're easier to ride stupid on the street....especially that street triple. That bike is a life altering machine. Other notable mentions include the ducati monsters (the newer ones, or even the older s2r or s4r models), the ninja 650, fz6 (older ones are better imo...but they sit pretty tall), or naked sv650.

If you're dead set on a supersport try grabbing an older one 2001 zx6r/zzr600, cbr600F3/F4/F4i, gixxer srads, yzf-600r...or if you're a larger/heavier rider, try the zx7r. They still produce a crap-ton of power, but not as much as a modern SS. Some of those bikes aren't considered supersports anymore either...so you may be able to garner a break with insurance.

Supersport style bikes: SV650. You know what....get that bike. Forget everything else I've said. They also sound pretty damn sweet.



Cliff notes: buy an SV650

[mcteague]

The '08 250R was my "get back into motorcycling" bike. After a year I was just too uncomfortable on it and bought a '08 FZ6 new for pretty much a used bike price.

The FZ6 fits me better and has a much better fit\finish than the Ninjette. Plus, it has EFI, radial tires, alum frame, 4 piston monobloc brakes. etc. etc. Below 6k it is pretty docile. Above that it starts to scream and will really move. Truth be told, I wish it had more midrange and less top end. The FZ6R is supposed to address that point. Unfortunately, it has a cheaper steel frame\swingarm, lesser brakes and more weight.

Still, I really like the FZ6's do it all design. If I were to get another bike now I, most likely, would get a Triumph Street Triple R. I think race replica bikes are a bit daft for street riding. There is just no way to use any of their potential, legally, on the street.

Tim