A Better Car vs Bike Comparison

[CycleCam303]

Lets say we take two similar vehicles in the car and bike world and take them to Laguna Seca for two days and compare the lap times. @rojoracing53 already posted his video of what he was able to do on the 250. Coincidentally, I was flogging a 2000 Miata out there. Which has similar mods to what rojo has on the bike, minus motor enhancing mods. I wish we had video, but what do you think the gap would be? Don't cars brake and go around long sweepers faster than bikes?


Consistent 2.01's and 2.00's. That's all my little car could do. Lets just round it out to 10 seconds slower than a ninja 250 with bolt ons.

Where was he killing me? Turns. Turn 2 I'm exiting on the rumble strips at 57 MPH. I know that because I was shoving it into 3rd burying the tach a little past redline. Turn 5 I'm only able to get through there at just over 60 mph.
I'm sure he'll chime in with what speeds he was able to exit some of the corners at.

According to rojo, the power and speed is pretty similar.

If you can ride the bike, there is no better price to lap time ratio with a car. With all the mods and the cost of a used miata you can buy a clean used 600 and be faster than porsche gt3's, nsx, corvettes, and bmw m3s.

[rojoracing53]

These are all my best exiting speeds in the corners I was monitoring.

3-68mph
4-81 mph
5-71mph
6-77 mph
11-50 mph

Max speed mid straight between turn 6 and corkscrew was only 81. There is no acceleration here because the hill is to steep but most the time I would be stuck at 79 mph.

My braking points for both turn 2 and 11 were the three cones and turn 5 was 20' before the two cones.

[Jiggles]

To get real scientific here you both need to switch vehicles and try again

[choneofakind]

General difference I'm seeing is tires. You mentioned the tires of your 'lil MX5 were getting greasy when you really pushed them. Would stickier, more track oriented rubber even out that corner speed difference a bit?

[sharky nrk]

There is never really a good fair comparison between cars and bikes lol. I mean the biggest potential benefit a car has over a bike is the amount of contact patch creating a place for friction forces to act. Tires make you go stop and turn and a car can simply have more tire.

The biggest potential benefit a bike has is mass, specifically less of it. Less mass means less forces generated for going stopping and turning that mass. In many cases the lighter mass of the bike wins, but given unlimited resources (see MotoGP vs F1) you just can't beat all the rubber.

The equalizer is that a tire is bound by its ability to create that friction force and withstand the thermal energy and material degradation involved. Bike tires have less tire but car tires have a greater magnitude of force to deal with.

[sharky nrk]

Although I love the comparison, the MX5 is totally the ninjette of the car world. Everyone rags on one until they flog it and then you understand lol.

[burningscooter]

Curious, what type of suspension work is done on the Miata?

[Ducati999]

Cyclecam303 here is a video (not quite what you were talking about) that shows a car and bike on the same track and they over lay the two at the end to show the difference between where each one was at what time. They are not at the same track as you and not quite the same comparison but they do show the different ways the tires handle the loads during braking and accel.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[CycleCam303]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

General difference I'm seeing is tires. You mentioned the tires of your 'lil MX5 were getting greasy when you really pushed them. Would stickier, more track oriented rubber even out that corner speed difference a bit?

Spec miatas are running 1.48s out there. No interior intake header and exhaust and race rubber. Race tires would've made a big difference.

[CycleCam303]

Originally Posted by burningscooter

Curious, what type of suspension work is done on the Miata?

Flyin miata springs kyb agx shocks and FM sway bars. The biggest changes that would help would be a limited slip diff and tires.

[Jiggles]

I want a smart car. Smart car vs a ninjette, I think that's more accurate

[Sirref]

smart car = the performance levels of a harley
miata is a fair comparison

[Alex]

What about a Smart Car with a turbo hayabusa engine transplant?

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Sirref]

that's the equivalent of a drag bike now, doesn't look like it can corner at speed without spinning. Then again it probably could if you were delicate w/the throttle

[Jono]

@CycleCam303 Numbers aside. Which vehicle was more fun to control around the track??

[Sirref]

^ damn good question
I'd bet the bike but a good car is probably boatloads of fun too

[CycleCam303]

Eh, it's hard to really compare which one is more fun. Cars and bikes are so different to me that I really can't answer that. I will say that I miss having a street bike everyday. The car is only fun when you're going large. The bike was cool even when just farting around. Although I give it to the car when it's raining. Seriously, driving when it's super wet outside in the canyons is officially the only thing I like about rainy days. I hate riding on two wheels when it's wet out.


The Miata is a hard car to drive fast. You'd have to be in the car with me, but I'm working my hands and balancing the car with the throttle quite a bit to get the car around the track. It's very loose feeling. With that said it's a very very cool car to drive because it's so text book with it's characteristics. All the driving techniques work like they should with that car, yet it's fun because you can really screw it up and still save it. But drive correctly and the car will reward you. It's a great training tool.

The ninja 250 and the miata are dead similar on track. In the sense of everything is faster in a straight line. I would get held up and then I couldn't pass because they would just pull away. Unfortunately, car track days are pretty tame compared to bike days. Cars are easier to drive too. So anyone can go decent around a track if they have triple the horsepower you do. Most motorcyclists struggle to make use of a liter bike, but with cars 500hp isn't an unwieldy affair.

[alex.s]

get better tires

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by Jono

@CycleCam303 Numbers aside. Which vehicle was more fun to control around the track??

Its a lot of fun to flog the car through he corners on normal street tires because you can just drift for days without killing yourself, that kinda hard to do on a motorcycle. But on a motorcycle I can go super deep on the brakes and left that rear wheel off the ground and back the bike in underneath other riders which for me is the ultimate thrill on a sport bike. Also bike are much easier to pass where in a car it's damn near impossible unless you have 150 more hp or the guy slows down and waves you by.

So in short the motorcycle is more fun but a car has a few things everyone should experience at least once.

[Jono]

Good answer! I agree that you can't really compare the two. I've decided I need both a bike and a car to be happy. I've never driven my car at a track day just many autocross events and no track days on my bike either. But I can tell that the experience is very different for both.

[Sirref]

I've never had a problem passing kids on corner exit in a car. Then again I haven't tried that bs since high school so it was probably a driving skill/willingness to be reckless difference especially since I was always down on power.

I prefer the bike overall but taking a fun little car to an autocross event is always a blast and it's not ridiculously expensive. For a legit track day I'd imagine that I would prefer the bike though since there's a lot more to cornering fast on a bike than cornering fast in a car imo

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by Alex

What about a Smart Car with a turbo hayabusa engine transplant?

Link to original page on YouTube.

I could roll on of these just for that sound alone. I want to hear it with that ducati twin music or even that dirtiness that the Yamaha cross plain makes with a short can.

[Sirref]

Yea, that reminds me how much I want to get a yoshimura/tbr/etc slip on for my car

[CycleCam303]

@Sirref car track days are way more conservative than bike days. I got yelled at for diving in on someone mid corner for example. You're supposed to give a point by to let a car pass you.you aren't supposed to pass unless given the OK to do so. By Sunday other drivers started recognizing my car and would point me by as soon as I soaked them up.

There isn't a lot of room to pass and most people are on the driving line. You can't compare it to street driving at all. Its a great experience that autocross simply can't provide. There's more technique involved since the speeds are so much higher you have to be more conscience of weight management.

In a way it almost feels a lot safer. With the bikes you can do whatever you want and it isn't very micro managed.

[Sirref]

but half the fun of an I/A level trackday is getting to pass people aggressively, I think if I were to do a car track day I'd build a rwd car up for a drift day and bring a bunch of spare tires but that's all way in the future when I have the funds for such a project.