April 20th, 2020, 08:22 AM | #1 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Mike
Location: Denver
Join Date: Apr 2020 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250, Victory Cross Country Posts: 9
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Another Spark Issue 94 250
Hi all,
Picked up a 94 Ninja 250 for a cafe racer project. Bike sat for years. I get no spark to the plugs when out and grounded to the engine. Motor cranks (so I assume safety switches are working correctly), but no spark. Added a new battery and plugs in regards to electrical. With the ignition on I'm getting 12v to the left side plugs (red and black wires) before the coil. I only get .8v on the right side plugs (red and green wire) before the coil. Even with 12v before the coil on the left side I get no spark. I've read nearly every post concerning spark issues and the how to guides, bit can't find any results. Previous owner said he had to remove the ignition to make a key, but everything from the ignition looks to be hooked up. I'm at a loss. Any help or suggestions? Thanks!!! Mike |
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April 20th, 2020, 11:23 AM | #2 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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Quote:
There is a resistor in the ignition wiring that is required, and it sounds like it is not there or is not properly attached. There are a few threads here covering the ignition resistor. |
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April 20th, 2020, 11:35 AM | #3 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Mike
Location: Denver
Join Date: Apr 2020 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250, Victory Cross Country Posts: 9
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Yeah I looked over the resistor threads. From what I gathered this doesn't apply to 88-94 bikes as we don't have the gray wire in the ignition.
Correct me if I'm wrong though. Thanks for the thought. |
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April 20th, 2020, 12:00 PM | #4 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Mike
Location: Denver
Join Date: Apr 2020 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250, Victory Cross Country Posts: 9
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So on the right coil with the green and red wire. If I check voltage between the red wire and the bolt holding the coil I get 12v (basically skipping the green wire). The green wire which I believe to be the ground and or part of the safety switches does not give me voltage when o complete the loop.
The clutch switch is jumped and I have the kickstand switch looped as well. So those should be good. I also have the neutral light on the dash. |
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April 20th, 2020, 01:53 PM | #5 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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First, pull and measure all your fuses. Don’t just eyeball them. Measure actual resistance between legs.
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April 20th, 2020, 02:05 PM | #6 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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Quote:
Then to fire spark, ECU grounds black/green wire to dump coil and fire spark. No way you can measure this grounding signal with voltmeter. With oscilloscope, it looks like this. Signal is high most of time from constant +12 red wire to charge coil. Then momentary lows when spark is fired. |
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April 20th, 2020, 02:10 PM | #7 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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Third, pull part# from ECU and confirm it indeed is 1988-94 part. It’s possible a 95+ box was installed.
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April 20th, 2020, 02:41 PM | #8 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Mike
Location: Denver
Join Date: Apr 2020 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250, Victory Cross Country Posts: 9
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Danno,
Thanks for the reply. First, I measured all fuses. I got .1 on all the fuses between the legs. Second, I left the reds plugged into the coils and unplugged the green and black. One lead to the top tab and one lead to the bolt holding the coil to the frame. Both gave me 12v. Third, yes verified that it is for a 94 250. Mike |
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April 20th, 2020, 04:49 PM | #9 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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Hmm, 0.1-ohm across fuse is some resistance, should be closer to 0-ohms. But that could be meter calibration, so let's count fuses out.
With proper power at coils, it could be bad coils. Though chances of both of them being bad is extremely slim and even slimmer chances that they go bad at all. Measure: 1. Primary coil-winding resistance = 2.2-3.5 ohms 2. Secondary coi-winding resistance = 10-16k ohms 3. battery voltage bike OFF 4. battery voltage while cranking Proper power at coils and working coils then leads to conclusion something's bad at ECU. Either ECU itself or crank-trigger signals from pick-up coils. Let's test: 5. crank pick-up coil resistance = 100-150 ohms 6. ground at ECU. Measure resistance by back-probing ECU connector and get resistance between BLACK/YELLOW terminal and chassis-ground. 7. power to ECU. Key ON, run-switch ON, measure voltage at RED terminal at ECU connector 8. ECU grounding pulses to coil can be tested with 'noid light. These have internal amplifier and duration-extending circuitry to actually flash light long enough for humans to see. Amazong - OEM noid light. |
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April 20th, 2020, 06:04 PM | #10 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Mike
Location: Denver
Join Date: Apr 2020 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250, Victory Cross Country Posts: 9
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1. 3.0 ( both coils)
2. ~14k (both coils) 3. 13.04v 4. 11.8v 5. 117 6. .2 7. 12.6v 8. I can order one and check. Thanks! Last futzed with by Magnus; April 22nd, 2020 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Wrong number |
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April 22nd, 2020, 03:43 PM | #11 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Mike
Location: Denver
Join Date: Apr 2020 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250, Victory Cross Country Posts: 9
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Got my hands on another set of ignition coils. Still no spark on both.
Last futzed with by Magnus; April 22nd, 2020 at 05:06 PM. Reason: Updated |
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April 22nd, 2020, 05:50 PM | #12 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
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Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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Yeah, didn't think coils were bad. Might have some corrosion on terminals sometimes, which can be cleaned up with light sanding.
Ignition-trigger signal from crank pick-up might be concern. Do you have access to oscilloscope? |
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April 22nd, 2020, 07:36 PM | #13 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Mike
Location: Denver
Join Date: Apr 2020 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250, Victory Cross Country Posts: 9
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I do not have one, but have a friend that does and will try to get it.
Is the crank pick-up the one in the stator cover? I'll see what I can find. I also have a new cdi coming Saturday that I will give a try as well. |
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April 23rd, 2020, 10:26 AM | #14 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
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Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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no need for oscilloscope yet. 'noid-light can be used to test ignition grounding-pulses from ECU. If there's pulses, then crank pick-up coil AND ECU is good. Only if 'noid-light doesn't pulse, then we look closer.
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April 25th, 2020, 04:46 PM | #15 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Mike
Location: Denver
Join Date: Apr 2020 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250, Victory Cross Country Posts: 9
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Well found the issue. CDI box was not functioning correctly. Replaced with another and it worked.
Thanks Danno for the help! Much appreciated. |
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
April 25th, 2020, 11:41 PM | #16 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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Awesome job tracking that down!!!
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