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Old February 2nd, 2013, 07:51 AM   #1
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Question Custom 09 ninja 250 with ex 500 or 650r engine + others

Bike: 2009 Ninja 250r
Engine: 249cc - 925 miles on it

Turning naked.
Looking to put either a ninja 500 or 650r engine into the frame.
Supposed to match without modification of frame. Comments welcomed.

Looking to put an SV650 rear shock on as well. Looking for comments.

Rear tire suggestions, exhaust, jets, plugs...etc. Anything...

Doing a complete custom bike for my daughter. She is 14 in may this year. She'll be 15 in no time.

I have my reasons for doing this... unfortunately sometimes life is unexpected....

I will post pics and vids as I go along.....

Questions, positive Comments only!
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 08:43 AM   #2
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This is probably the best example.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Have fun wasting your time and money.

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Old February 2nd, 2013, 09:02 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjamunky85 View Post
Have fun wasting your time and money.
Its cool, I expect some to dis....

As I stated I have my reasons. So maybe some of us have time and money or have other means of getting the parts without breaking the law..... Some of us happen to be enthusiasts. image isn't everything brother... And just because you have the money, doesn't mean you have to spend it. So I'm making this clear now, some of us have our OWN reasons. What they are, shouldn't really matter.... Hell, for all you know. My wife passed away in july and I have a virus that causes cancer.... OR I could just be a goof and want to see what I could toss together as a project with my kid..... Whatever the reasons. It shouldn't matter if your an enthusiast. I have been all over, rode many bikes. Done many things. I don't impose my dislikes upon anyone, just because I can, especially over the net....

Ride safe brother, best of luck to whatever your about... I know I am new to this site. But it doesn't mean I'm new to bikes......
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 09:11 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xXKronicfoolXx View Post
Its cool, I expect some to dis....

As I stated I have my reasons. So maybe some of us have time and money or have other means of getting the parts without breaking the law..... Some of us happen to be enthusiasts. image isn't everything brother... And just because you have the money, doesn't mean you have to spend it. So I'm making this clear now, some of us have our OWN reasons. What they are, shouldn't really matter.... Hell, for all you know. My wife passed away in july and I have a virus that causes cancer.... OR I could just be a goof and want to see what I could toss together as a project with my kid..... Whatever the reasons. It shouldn't matter if your an enthusiast. I have been all over, rode many bikes. Done many things. I don't impose my dislikes upon anyone, just because I can, especially over the net....

Ride safe brother, best of luck to whatever your about... I know I am new to this site. But it doesn't mean I'm new to bikes......
I'm sure you have your own super special secret reasons you don't like people to ask about, but that isn't say they aren't silly reasons
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 09:12 AM   #5
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Welcome
No one waists more money on a 250 ninja than me. Don't let anyone steer you away from your goal.
You might want to start a blog to keep us posted on the progress. I am going the other way. Putting a 250 engine in a 500 frame.
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 10:19 AM   #6
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Interesting project. There's been others who have attempted the same thing and gotten varying results/feedback.

Still an interesting project I would like to do at some point, so keep us updated.

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Old February 2nd, 2013, 06:11 PM   #7
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Just do it! Because you can. I've done some engine transplants that make no sense to some, I did it for me not any one else. Some things I did failed but I learned, at least I tried, at least I found out what works and what doesn't. But I won't be the one sitting here wondering if it was possible. Those of us who can, do. Enjoy your project and keep us updated, thanks.
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 08:46 PM   #8
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Can't wait to see how you mount it. As said above your in good company here when it comes to dropping ridiculous cash on 250's. Welcome to the forum.
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 10:22 PM   #9
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I'd love to see how this transpires as well... Go with the 650 engine, I have a pet dream of puttin that in my bike too... Lol
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 06:03 AM   #10
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Sick!!! I wanna see this engine swap. Hope the project goes well!!!
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 10:08 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xXKronicfoolXx View Post
Its cool, I expect some to dis....
Not tryin to be an A**hole, just tryin to be real.

Most people who post about projects like this have no idea what actually is needed for such a project to be done. I've seen more than a few posts like yours from people wanting to do an engine swap, or add a turbo, or whatever. A lot of times it's their first post, like yours, and then they are usually never seen or heard from again.

If you do have the ability and knowledge to complete such a project then more power to you. Just don't expect a step by step instruction booklet on how to make it happen, and don't just expect to swap engines and call it a day. This isn't a project that many have done. Maybe there's a reason, or many why.

- The Ninja 250's frame isn't very stiff and is only adequate, at best, for the stock motor that puts out less than 20 lb/ft of torque. The 650 puts our more than twice that, and would probably twist the 250 frame to a pretzel without substantial reinforcement.

- While you can replace the stock shock with a better one you might as well just swap the entire swing arm for a better one. Then you'll be able to run a better tire than the 250 can take. Oh, and I doubt the stock 250 swing arm would hold up to the added power for very long. The pretzel thing again.

- You'll have to swap the fork for something more heavy duty too. Something with dual discs, cause if your adding extra go power you should be adding extra stopping power too, right. Unless you want the bike and rider both to be turned into a pretzel

-Then there's all the little details. Like intake and exhaust. Getting all the electrical stuff to work, and about a million other little things.

Then finally, after all that. You'll have a bike that probably cost you way more and wont be as good as the stock 500 or 650. It also wont be worth more than the value of its' parts cause nobody's gonna want to buy your frankenbike. Not to mention all the time that you could have just spent riding.

I'm sorry, I just can't help but to look at things from a logical standpoint.
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 10:16 AM   #12
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Can't wait to see how you mount it. As said above your in good company here when it comes to dropping ridiculous cash on 250's. Welcome to the forum.
Ty, is that Sydney Australia?.......
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 10:25 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjamunky85 View Post
Not tryin tio be an A**hole, just tryin to be real.

Most people who post about... Doot n Doot n Dooo.....

I'm sorry, I just can't help but to look at things from a logical standpoint.
My wife was 32, I am 26... Unfortunately if it weren't for my own condition. I could of postpone my wife's with my liver. But I can't, because a virus would still exist.

Our daughter is 13. Family's taking control of our lives... So my wife and i are young and we'll both be gone before our time should of been....

Where's the logic in that?

Who gives a F?

From my stand point, you say you look at this logically. But you aren't....
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 10:47 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by xXKronicfoolXx View Post
My wife was 32, I am 26... Unfortunately if it weren't for my own condition. I could of postpone my wife's with my liver. But I can't, because a virus would still exist.

Our daughter is 13. Family's taking control of our lives... So my wife and i are young and we'll both be gone before our time should of been....

Where's the logic in that?

Who gives a F?

From my stand point, you say you look at this logically. But you aren't....
I don't know what to say to that. If it's your dream to build a 250 with a 500/650 engine in it then go for it, who cares what anyone else thinks.

I'm not trying to be your enemy, just letting you and anyone else thinking of attempting such a project some of the challenges you'll face.

Looks like you'll get plenty of support here. Hopefully you'll build a badass bike, and make me eat my words.
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 11:03 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by ninjamunky85 View Post
I don't know what to say to that. If it's your dream to build a 250 with a 500/650 engine in it then go for it, who cares what anyone else thinks.

I'm not trying to be your enemy, just letting you and anyone else thinking of attempting such a project some of the challenges you'll face.

Looks like you'll get plenty of support here. Hopefully you'll build a badass bike, and make me eat my words.
Logically no one thinks about what's really going on, except whats in their own little world. I don't dismiss every Joe Shmoe I come across. Occupational hazard or personal preference, not sure which. But I stop to think about who I am talking to before I speak. Understandably, the majority isn't the same, every single person is different. Hence 'individual'...

Nor am I trying to be an enemy. I merely wanted a forum for reference purposes. I have a bike. Yes, to customize for my daughter. She is small... I've been riding, racing and buying/trading for 10+ years.

I do plan on posting pics as I go. Along with videos. Yes I do understand I'd be replacing more parts then what's mentioned, ideas, questions, comments, answers.... All part of the whole forum genre!?! Practically sole purpose??? You tell me....

Everything's cool, brother. Suggestions would be more welcomed then just warnings though.... Peace.
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 11:46 AM   #16
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do it mate! i think itll be tops, and dont worry what these guys are saying, just have a look at what racer x is doing with his. are you in australia? if so, id be using a zzr250 (ex250H) frame instead, much stronger IMO. im currently building a frankenbike aswell, im doing it because it was my first bike and ive already poured that muh money into over the years im never going to see a return, so ill just keep it and give it to my little brother when hes old enough.
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 12:37 PM   #17
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My other route I was considering before realizing the two other engines would fit, was a big bore job to a 325... Basically just an all out custom bike. Its not the image or money brother. Its the sentimental meaning and gesture. Like building a car or bike with your son or daughter. I'd like to leave something I did specifically for my daughter.... to fit my daughter and not just be any old same bike zipping down the road. I'd hope she doesn't sell it.... Along with all my other bikes and toys......

Generally any suggestions will be very helpful as you never know what the next person knows or has seen or done. Ya I expect some space filler, here and there, but you don't learn or advance your knowledge unless you ask or put it out there. As I have learned many ways, you never know what tomorrow may hold.

As many of us can probably relate. I should of probably died along time ago. On many occasions here, are people dumb enough to come head on with a motorcycle, in a daily manner... Not to mention ALL the stupid stuff I have done myself or exposed myself to.

I will be doing this project, one way or another. No doubt in that....

Will be riding it from jax beach to gville area next month. To start going through ( as a 250 ) everything. Just been hectic with life. This is a project to get my mind off of things.

Also would give me parts that im replacing... to rebuild another bike, IF I so choose to do.... Or just spare parts. Can't have enough parts!!!!
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 04:32 PM   #18
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If you want to swap a 500/650 into a Ninja GO FOR IT! Do what you want. A few years ago I pulled a 2hp motor out of a scooter and swapped in a 14hp, painted it, and stretched it. Some people didn't like it, but I did. But like everyone has said, know it's going to take an extreme amount of time and money. This is what I would do:

- Start with a Ninja 250 frame or find a 250 with a blown motor or something serious like that. You don't need a pristine 250 that runs like a dream if you're swapping most of it.

- Like others have said, reinforce the frame, get a beefy swingarm and beefy front end. Fit your motor.

- Bring all the electrics, gauges, and ecu from the new bike into the 650. Better than mixing and matching. Either way, start your project while the weather is cold and bikes are cheap. Let us know how it goes.


Come to think of it, try to buy a whole 250 with a blown motor, and a 500/650 that runs well but has been wrecked. Frankencycle them!
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 06:18 PM   #19
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Sorry to say but from what I'd read until now this for me is NOT a serious project!
I only read about more power - but serious tuning always has to consider about safety and what does that mean?
The brakes have to be 'stronger then the engine's ability'!
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 07:50 PM   #20
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Talking about better brakes, would it be possible to add dual disks to the 250(I know it would be overkill, but I'm curious) without changing the forks? I mean if I put in the ninja 650 wheels into my bike, can I get the brakes to work as well? Just a thought...
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 08:27 PM   #21
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Talking about better brakes, would it be possible to add dual disks to the 250(I know it would be overkill, but I'm curious) without changing the forks? I mean if I put in the ninja 650 wheels into my bike, can I get the brakes to work as well? Just a thought...
There was a guy on YouTube who had this done to his 250r (it was a street fighter build). He didn't have to mod much because he found a brake rotor/caliper that was a reverse of the 250r for another bike. Doing this should give you plenty of stopping power.

Found the vid! :

Link to original page on YouTube.

As for doing this mod. I would recommend you try to stick with the 500r engine as it's mounted in a similar fashion to the 250r. Getting a 500r engine is a bit tough, but cheap usually. I don't believe the 500 and 250 use the same throttle bodies, so finding a cheap fuel injection system might take a little bit of ingenuity.

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Old February 3rd, 2013, 10:01 PM   #22
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There was a guy on YouTube who had this done to his 250r (it was a street fighter build). He didn't have to mod much because he found a brake rotor/caliper that was a reverse of the 250r for another bike. Doing this should give you plenty of stopping power.
Thanks Nathan, my aim isn't more stopping power, I was thinking about swapping out my wheels for slightly wider units from a different bike. This bike has dual rotors up front and I was wondering if I could adapt that in my bike too, without TOO much of a hassle... My reason for doing this? I just want the bigger tires without too much pinching... India has this new ruile where selling imported tires has become pretty much illegal, so I cant get decent tires in my size.




p.s. I'm asking this here because this info would definitely help the OP in building his dream bike, not trying to hijack his thread.
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 10:32 PM   #23
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Thanks Nathan, my aim isn't more stopping power, I was thinking about swapping out my wheels for slightly wider units from a different bike. This bike has dual rotors up front and I was wondering if I could adapt that in my bike too, without TOO much of a hassle... My reason for doing this? I just want the bigger tires without too much pinching... India has this new ruile where selling imported tires has become pretty much illegal, so I cant get decent tires in my size.




p.s. I'm asking this here because this info would definitely help the OP in building his dream bike, not trying to hijack his thread.
I believe someone here put on some zx6r forks before. I'd LOVE to get ahold of some SFF-BP forks for my 250r <3

As for throwing on different forks on our bike, I've heard it's not really all that difficult, it just takes some custom machining to get pieces to work. Again, sorry to be so vague, it's not something I know a ton about.

EDIT: Found a couple threads that might help you out.
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33234
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=101923
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 11:58 PM   #24
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Sorry to say but from what I'd read until now this for me is NOT a serious project!
I only read about more power - but serious tuning always has to consider about safety and what does that mean?
The brakes have to be 'stronger then the engine's ability'!
Seems losts have an opinion, just like they got an asshole....

From what you've said, all I see is, your judgmental.

This forum not only just opened not more or less than 48 hours ago... not checking when I did post it.

This isn't about just power. To be honest, if I did an engine swap. It'd probably be the 500. But I don't know. I have a month till I even bring the bike back home.

And then, I even want to, like stated earlier, go through it as a 250... I got time for this. You don't open a forum, get a few responses, snap your fingers and presto! The F'r is complete.

Want to know what I think?

I think anyone who's got something to say, that isn't productive on the original thread. Should just keep their eyes and fingers away from the keyboard and monitor... If I wanted a bunch of drama on the internet, Id go to backpage or Craigslist for dating.....

Is it too much to ask that we stick to positive points?

Since we are talking about breaks and another gentlemen suggested something about ( with the quick glance I took before something else. ) dual breaks I believe?

Yes, dual breaks would be awesome

Calipers? Any special lines or parts anyone can think of or recommend? What line up of forks would go well with what. So lets start with saying we do the engine swap with the 500. Reinforced frame, what front end is recommended by the general population on ninjette.org? Only major thing that needs consideration, AFTER SAFETY, is the person riding. It would be a small light girl. So lowering is a must... hence one reason im choosing a 250 frame.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 12:02 AM   #25
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Seems losts have an opinion, just like they got an asshole....

From what you've said, all I see is, your judgmental.

This forum not only just opened not more or less than 48 hours ago... not checking when I did post it.

This isn't about just power. To be honest, if I did an engine swap. It'd probably be the 500. But I don't know. I have a month till I even bring the bike back home.

And then, I even want to, like stated earlier, go through it as a 250... I got time for this. You don't open a forum, get a few responses, snap your fingers and presto! The F'r is complete.

Want to know what I think?

I think anyone who's got something to say, that isn't productive on the original thread. Should just keep their eyes and fingers away from the keyboard and monitor... If I wanted a bunch of drama on the internet, Id go to backpage or Craigslist for dating.....

Is it too much to ask that we stick to positive points?

Since we are talking about breaks and another gentlemen suggested something about ( with the quick glance I took before something else. ) dual breaks I believe?

Yes, dual breaks would be awesome

Calipers? Any special lines or parts anyone can think of or recommend? What line up of forks would go well with what. So lets start with saying we do the engine swap with the 500. Reinforced frame, what front end is recommended by the general population on ninjette.org? Only major thing that needs consideration, AFTER SAFETY, is the person riding. It would be a small light girl. So lowering is a must... hence one reason im choosing a 250 frame.
I really think that you'd be fine with the stock forks since the engine swap wouldn't generate THAT much more weight. Adding preload adjusters or some stiffer springs should be plenty.

For brakes, upgrading to a set of EBC HH front and EBC GG rear with some Speigler brake lines is probably enough to stop the bike safely.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 12:08 AM   #26
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I'd say do what @MistahT said. Seems to be the most logical advice... Buy a 250 and a 650 in varying degrees of repair and frenkenbike the s**t out of them... That will give you all the parts you could need, including engine, suspension, wheels, electricals, etc...
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Old February 4th, 2013, 01:27 AM   #27
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Maybe Brembo's is an option, look here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/271138824644...84.m1423.l2649

and here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/271138815269...84.m1423.l2649
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Old February 4th, 2013, 02:02 AM   #28
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i vote complete zx6r or 636 front end, maybe bordering overkill, but when i build thingsd, i over engineer it and do it right, fork swaps arent that hard. i would be doing it doubly so if it was for my daughter.

BTW @psych0hans, i wouldnt even think about using a hyosung gt650 front end on anything. i have one and i telling you the weight in it would do more harm then good. it would make your ninjette pull up quicker because i think it would slow the bike down IMO
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Old February 4th, 2013, 02:07 AM   #29
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i vote complete zx6r or 636 front end, maybe bordering overkill, but when i build thingsd, i over engineer it and do it right, fork swaps arent that hard. i would be doing it doubly so if it was for my daughter.

BTW @psych0hans, i wouldnt even think about using a hyosung gt650 front end on anything. i have one and i telling you the weight in it would do more harm then good. it would make your ninjette pull up quicker because i think it would slow the bike down IMO
Hey bro, I have no intention of using the hyosung front end, just the wheels and MAYBE the brakes... Tho the whole idea depends on if I can get a used set of wheels and brakes for a reasonable price. Thanks for your input tho
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Old February 4th, 2013, 02:51 AM   #30
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the wheel is where all the weight is mate. you can do it man, but i would recomend using a kawasaki wheel, better quality and much lighter. not trying to put you off, just letting you know what ive found through my travels.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 03:41 AM   #31
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the wheel is where all the weight is mate. you can do it man, but i would recomend using a kawasaki wheel, better quality and much lighter. not trying to put you off, just letting you know what ive found through my travels.
Ahhhh.... I didn't know that... Thanks for the info! will keep that in mind
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Old February 4th, 2013, 04:14 AM   #32
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Ahhhh.... I didn't know that... Thanks for the info! will keep that in mind
all good mate, everyone on the hyosung forum i frequent wants to find some lighter wheels for their hyo, some guys use zx7r or zx6r wheels. all up i think it would be much easier as far as machining is involed, and more benificial to do a complete front end swap. it would be good to see something different though.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 05:20 AM   #33
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Just a couple thoughts: my factory brake system, with the addition of a good set of pads and stainless lines, stops my ninja race bike with my 190 lb mass, from 100 mph with no problem. So look at it this way, every time I ride my bike I am threshold braking and my brakes hold up fine, as do the other riders on the track, some weighing more than me by 30lbs and some weighing less than me by 40lbs. So I don't think you will run into problems with the brakes from the added stress of the 500 motor on the street. Next, if you have a donor bike and the skill to fab this project, I don't see it running up the tab for the swap. Were do you need to spend $$$ with everything sitting right in front of you. Next, ask Racerx how his 60 hp bike is holding up to the constant hammering he puts it through. As far as I know he hasn't experienced any chassis related failures due to the added stress of more than double the HP.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 05:37 AM   #34
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Wow this is real
OK First I am very sorry for your loss. That is a tragic story. ALL the focus need to be on your daughter.
Doing things like this will be a great memory for her.
With any project you need to start with a goal. What do you want to do with the bike?

She is to young to ride a custom motorcycle in traffic. So show bike? Race bike? Track bike? Try to pin it down. It will save a lot of work.

Any of these bike will take you to a place with great people. And it's the people you expose your daughter to that will matter. Race people are great family people. The track is my home and the people are my family.

But building a show bike an going to shows is the same thing. And she will learn many valuable skills.

As for the bike. If you are going to do an engine swap. Definitely don't just buy a motor. Get the whole bike. You will need so many little stupid parts its worth it. Bent frame bikes are cheap.
I would go for the 650 engine . First it's is a pretty motor . And fuel injection can sit and still start later.
Keep us posted . We love photos. Get
Your daughter a dirt bike in the mean time. So she learns to ride.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 06:09 AM   #35
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Old February 13th, 2013, 09:47 AM   #36
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My bad for being away, had a wisdom tooth problem... lol. Infection caused and spread to my jaw, had'em pulled.

Thanks for the the references and information....

To simplify the whole age thing, she won't be riding on roads for a couple years.... /

Im looking to put quality into the bike, not for show.....
When she becomes of age, If I'm here, I'll give it to her. Among other toys and things...

Until then, ya she will probably end up being made to tear down and rebuild some dirt bike or wrecked bike.

Bikes, trucks and boats have been my thing....
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Old February 13th, 2013, 09:50 AM   #37
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Are those your recommendations munky?
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Old February 13th, 2013, 10:11 AM   #38
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The 650 engine is actually physically smaller than the 500 engine and from the same generation so technically it should be a better fit. However I'm not sure how a 250's basic frame will hold up to increased power of a bigger engine...
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Old February 13th, 2013, 12:02 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanUc View Post
I believe someone here put on some zx6r forks before. I'd LOVE to get ahold of some SFF-BP forks for my 250r <3

As for throwing on different forks on our bike, I've heard it's not really all that difficult, it just takes some custom machining to get pieces to work. Again, sorry to be so vague, it's not something I know a ton about.

EDIT: Found a couple threads that might help you out.
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33234
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=101923
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Old February 13th, 2013, 12:07 PM   #40
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I believe someone here put on some zx6r forks before. I'd LOVE to get ahold of some SFF-BP forks for my 250r <3

As for throwing on different forks on our bike, I've heard it's not really all that difficult, it just takes some custom machining to get pieces to work. Again, sorry to be so vague, it's not something I know a ton about.

EDIT: Found a couple threads that might help you out.
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33234
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=101923
can i ask you my friend,i like your bike and i have also my ninja 250,i want to modified my ninja into ducati like,where u buy a fairing of ducati it is possible i buy also,but im her in phillipines,can you help me,thank you so much.
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