Engine temp/oil lights stay on after starting...?

[DmbShn41]

Quick question. Last couple of mornings I've started the bike up to ride to work, the engine water temp and oil lights stay on after starting. They seem to remain on for anywhere between 30 seconds to well past a minute. Temperatures in Ohio have ranged between 40-65 F on these mornings. Bike is garaged, hasn't sat in rain for any amount of time. I'm fairly convinced that the bike isn't overheated at the time of starting up for first time of day, and that the oil pressure is fine. Oil level is good, and coolant level is good, from peering through fender at jug at least. Any ideas as to why? When I first noticed, I shut bike off, keyed off, then restarted and it was fine. Haven't done any type of work lately, just riding. Last work done to bike was an oil change and chain cleaning and lube approx 200 miles ago/2 weeks.

Thanks

[Motofool]

The oil light is serious: it means the sensor is not feeling enough pressure when it is more important.
Could it be that the new oil has higher viscosity?

[DmbShn41]

Oil is same as I always use, Mobil 1 Synthetic. Goes out shortly after. Sometimes, it goes out as soon as I start it. Seems random.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by DmbShn41

Oil is same as I always use, Mobil 1 Synthetic. Goes out shortly after. Sometimes, it goes out as soon as I start it. Seems random.

I should have written grade of the oil.

If grade is as usual, maybe idle rpm's are set too low or the oil filter is too dirty or the oil level is too low.

Just mentioning some possible causes.

We had a similar case two years ago:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131400

Hope you can find some tips there.

[spooph]

The oil and heat light together form a continuity circuit. If it's always both lights, and they don't go off independently you have a wiring problem. I have the same thing on my bike right now, but haven't had the time to troubleshoot it properly. I will post up when I know more... However, I think you're looking at a bad ground somewhere.

[DmbShn41]

Originally Posted by spooph

The oil and heat light together form a continuity circuit. If it's always both lights, and they don't go off independently you have a wiring problem. I have the same thing on my bike right now, but haven't had the time to troubleshoot it properly. I will post up when I know more... However, I think you're looking at a bad ground somewhere.

Spot on. I'm digging around, will let you know if I find something.

[DmbShn41]

Just from looking at wiring diagram, the tach, oil pressure light, engine temp warning light and engine stop button all share a common wire. Everything but the engine stop button go through a main connector that is located inside left side of front nose cone. 3-4 weeks ago, I had remove the whole front end, gauge cluster included, to install a new wind screen, had to replace well nuts. I also had the right front control housing (front brake switch, engine stop button, starter) disassembled as I was installing clip ons.

Logic tells me that a pin located in middle of a 10-15 wire connector is less likely to come loose, start breaking, etc where as a soldered wire on the engine stop button is more likely to be an issue. I'm starting there first. Will post results.

[InvisiBill]

All the gauges get power from the brown wire (brown/black in the main harness from the IGN fuse), and the sensors complete the circuits to ground.

[DmbShn41]

I'm a 3 PH/4 pole kind of person, not much of a 1 PH....all other items on the gauge cluster are grounded locally, with the exception of the water temp light, oil pressure light, turn signal indicator, and neutral light. Are those items grounded at their respective sensors?

Now that I think of it, their has been a time or two where I have started bike, let it warm for 2-3 minutes, gear up and the fuel gauge reads as if the bike was off. Sitting and bring the bike upright would make it start reading correctly. Wondering out loud if this is related to my current random issue with the oil and water lights...hmmmmmm.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by DmbShn41

I'm a 3 PH/4 pole kind of person, not much of a 1 PH....all other items on the gauge cluster are grounded locally, with the exception of the water temp light, oil pressure light, turn signal indicator, and neutral light. Are those items grounded at their respective sensors?

Now that I think of it, their has been a time or two where I have started bike, let it warm for 2-3 minutes, gear up and the fuel gauge reads as if the bike was off. Sitting and bring the bike upright would make it start reading correctly. Wondering out loud if this is related to my current random issue with the oil and water lights...hmmmmmm.

Thanks to rectifiers, all the branch circuits in your bike are direct current-single phase, so a battery can be used to accumulate electricity for when the generator is off.

The sensors are the switch in the following schematic.

In the specific case of the oil pressure, the switch feels the pressure in the oil distribution passages after the oil pump.
It closes or opens the circuit at certain pre-determined pressure.

Yes, the fact of starting the bike still on the side stand limits the amount of oil around the pick-up of the pump (which is located over the right side of the engine) and may be initially allowing some air into the pump and passages.

Something similar happens when we brake too hard and all the oil rushes toward the front of the crankcase.

[DmbShn41]

Thanks Motofool. Based on what Spooph described, and that both of my lights stay on randomly, at the same time, I think I have an electrical issue more so than an oil issue. I was out in the garage minutes ago, and replicated the issue, and confirmed that when it does happen, the fuel gauge shows as if the bike was off at the same time. I was able to key off, and the next start, both lights turned off within seconds of engine start, and the fuel gauge responded as soon as I keyed on.

I removed the busted license plate light some time ago, trimmed ends and taped up with seal tight tape. May be part of my issue. Got new lights coming from Amazon.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by DmbShn41

Thanks Motofool. Based on what Spooph described, and that both of my lights stay on randomly, at the same time, I think I have an electrical issue more so than an oil issue...........

For that to happens the wire from the bulb to the oil sensor must be contacting ground randomly.

You are welcome

[DmbShn41]

Originally Posted by Motofool

For that to happens the wire from the bulb to the oil sensor must be contacting ground randomly.

You are welcome

For both lights to randomly stay on for length, you're saying that the wire from the oil pressure bulb to the oil sensor must be making ground contact?

And if yes, that would be completing the circuit, hence the lights?

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by DmbShn41

For both lights to randomly stay on for length, you're saying that the wire from the oil pressure bulb to the oil sensor must be making ground contact?

And if yes, that would be completing the circuit, hence the lights?

Yes, but I am not sure about the other light.
Do both turn on and off simultaneously?

[DmbShn41]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Yes, but I am not sure about the other light.
Do both turn on and off simultaneously?

Both come on when I key on, and at random times (not every time), both lights will stay on after the engine has started and is running, and the fuel gauge will be non responsive aka reading as if the engine were off, needle below empty.

Its never just one light or the other that stays on after engine start. Its always both when it happens.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by DmbShn41

Both come on when I key on, and at random times (not every time), both lights will stay on after the engine has started and is running, and the fuel gauge will be non responsive aka reading as if the engine were off, needle below empty.

Its never just one light or the other that stays on after engine start. Its always both when it happens.

The three indicators have independent circuits and should operate independently, unless there is a bridge somewhere.

I would check that multi-connector for the cluster.

Again, the oil indicator is the one that is really critical, because these engines don't live more than a few seconds with insufficient pressure of oil.
If the light is not working correctly for that mysterious reason, you will not know when the engine lubrication has been compromised.
The pressure switch is normally closed when the engine is off, closing the path of current to ground.
Once the pressure increases, the switch opens and the indicator light turns off.

In the meanwhile, start the engine with the bike in a vertical position if possible.

[spooph]

Just took my clutch cover off and low and behold, the oil gear fell off it's shaft. No idea how that happened. I've done it once before putting the engine back together after the rebuild, but that during installation, so, no idea how it happened with everything correctly assembled...

Anyway, @DmbShn41 I'd suggest you start here and verify it's in the right spot.

I should have known better than to contradict @Motofool.... He knows his stuff.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by spooph

Just took my clutch cover off and low and behold, the oil gear fell off it's shaft...........

Any pictures?

Originally Posted by spooph

I should have known better than to contradict @Motofool.... He knows his stuff.

[DmbShn41]

Originally Posted by spooph

Just took my clutch cover off and low and behold, the oil gear fell off it's shaft. No idea how that happened. I've done it once before putting the engine back together after the rebuild, but that during installation, so, no idea how it happened with everything correctly assembled...

Anyway, @DmbShn41 I'd suggest you start here and verify it's in the right spot.

I should have known better than to contradict @Motofool.... He knows his stuff.

Oil gear is what is pumping oil through engine correct? I have oil flow, or at least 290 miles since last week saying this is most likely an electrical issue. Bike runs fine. I had fairings off today and checked the coolant level, no issues. Oil level looks good. Any chance this could be signs of gauge cluster failure?

[spooph]

unfortunately no pictures, I was working quickly... However, it's pretty easy to get too...

1.) Remove side covers, seat, tank, right side fairing (right if you're sitting on the moto).
2.) Disconnect clutch cable from lever.
3.) remove clutch cable mount from right side of motorcycle (if you're sitting on the moto).
4.) Remove the other 9 bolts (I think) from the clutch cover.
5.) Spin clutch actuator all the way down until it won't rotate anymore.
6.) Remove clutch cover by using two pry tabs. Be careful, you'll probably tear the gasket. If you're careful and don't destroy it, you'll be able to reuse it.
7.) Look to the right and below the clutch pack, if the clutch pack were a clock, at 4:45. If you can poke at the gear and make it wobble, it has fallen off.

To put the gear back on the shaft, remove the clutch pack and basket, you can then reseat the gear on the shaft and put it all back together.

If you tore the gasket, line it up very carefully, and tighten the bolts carefully. Thus far, mine tore and it hasn't leaked a drop...
@DmbShn41, it could be, but I doubt it. If the instrument cluster was dying, the lights would be off, and things wouldn't be working. I'm still betting on an open circuit somewhere.. Maybe not a ground, but possibly a bad sensor and connecting wire...

[DmbShn41]

Tore the nose cone off today, found nothing awry or anything that would indicate trouble. Reassembled. 2 out of 5 starts showed the issue. Left bike on battery tender. Hoping that maybe battery charge was low, or that maybe I'll snuff out a bad battery. Low charge on battery makes no sense in this issue, but most of times when there is a battery issue, it makes no sense.

[spooph]

ugh, how frustrating... Intermittent issues are such a pain!