Someone stealing my gasoline from my bike! Video included - Page 2

cadd · March 27th, 2014, 09:45 PM

Can't get the carbs out!!! So close, yet so far

The right side of the airbox doesn't move far back enough!!! ARRRRRGGHHHH!

DaBlue1 · March 27th, 2014, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadd

Can't get the carbs out!!! So close, yet so far

The right side of the airbox doesn't move far back enough!!! ARRRRRGGHHHH!

Take the snorkel out. And whatever you do, remember where all your hose go. If you have to mark them in some way.

cadd · March 27th, 2014, 10:12 PM

You gotta be kidding me! So the rear fairing has to come off as well to get the snorkel off?!

Yakaru · March 27th, 2014, 10:42 PM

This is why I put pods on :P

cadd · March 27th, 2014, 11:22 PM

Is it possible to take the carbs out without taking the snorkel off?

Has anyone done it?

If I take off the left boot that connects the carb to the motor, would I have an easier time taking the carbs out without taking the snorkel off?

DaBlue1 · March 28th, 2014, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadd

You gotta be kidding me! So the rear fairing has to come off as well to get the snorkel off?!

No, with a little work, you can remove the snorkel right out of the side. It's flexible enough to do it. Once you pry it loose from the airbox, push it back and up slightly, flex it and pull it out from in between the frame. After you tune the carbs, most likely you might not need to put it back anyway.

NealWright · March 28th, 2014, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakaru

This is why I put pods on :P

FYI ... If you planned on going to pods, the airbox might not need to come out "nicely":-) Just a suggestion.

cadd · March 28th, 2014, 06:32 AM

Assuming I get the carbs out....and clean them.

How would I adjust the fuel air mixture? Don't I have to run the bike?

If I do, how on earth am I supposed to get a screwdriver down there and turn the mixture screws?!?! Guess it's time to invest in a tiny tiny tiny stubby screwdriver?

DaBlue1 · March 28th, 2014, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadd

Assuming I get the carbs out....and clean them.

How would I adjust the fuel air mixture? Don't I have to run the bike?

If I do, how on earth am I supposed to get a screwdriver down there and turn the mixture screws?!?! Guess it's time to invest in a tiny tiny tiny stubby screwdriver?

First step is check your needle height. Your needle height may be too high as well. Your needle height will mainly affect 1/4 - 3/4 throttle range as well as idle slightly. Adjusting the idle mixture is not that hard. Count how many turns it take to turn the screws all the way in, then count 2.5 turn out on both screws. this is a good place to start. After that you can fine tune it with the engine running.

And yes you need a tiny stubby or offset screwdriver

Here is some good detailed info.

How Constant Velocity Carburetors Work
http://www.motorcycleproject.com/mot...bs_work_v3.swf

Motorcycle Carburetor Theory 101
http://www.motorcyclecarbs.com/carbs101.pdf

Yakaru · March 28th, 2014, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NealWright

FYI ... If you planned on going to pods, the airbox might not need to come out "nicely":-) Just a suggestion.

Jiggles shows the proper technique here:

Link to original page on YouTube.

cadd · March 28th, 2014, 02:01 PM

What a battle!!!

I have no idea if I could get it back in. Such a tight fit.

I guess next step is to drain it?

Then?????

cadd · March 28th, 2014, 02:09 PM

This is what drained out from the two bowls.

cadd · March 28th, 2014, 02:31 PM

Looks clean to me.

cadd · March 28th, 2014, 02:36 PM

Floats look good, right?

DaBlue1 · March 28th, 2014, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadd

Looks clean to me.

Can you see a number stamped on the main jets anywhere?

cadd · March 28th, 2014, 02:52 PM

The main jet says 98.

DaBlue1 · March 28th, 2014, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadd

The main jet says 98.

Stock Keihin jets. What about your needles?

cadd · March 28th, 2014, 03:27 PM

This is what the needle looks like. Has it been shimmed?

DaBlue1 · March 28th, 2014, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadd

This is what the needle looks like. Has it been shimmed?

You have to pull it up and out of the slide to see if any washers are underneath

Stock needle w/o washers -L, Jet kit needle w/o washers -R

cadd · March 28th, 2014, 04:03 PM

How do I get the needles out?!?! A pair of tweezers would work?

The mixture screws were set as follows:
Right side 1.75 turns out
Left side 2.5 turns out.

I tighten both screws in (needle protrudes). Then I backed each one out 2.5 turns as you recommended.

I guess now I have to take the needles out and take a pic for you to look at and see what recommendations you have. I'm assuming with a pair of tweezers, I can just pull them straight out? Or would I have to unscrew them out?

DaBlue1 · March 28th, 2014, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadd

How do I get the needles out?!?! A pair of tweezers would work?

small needle nose pliers, long tweezers or a pencil with a piece of good tape on the end or just dump them out.

cadd · March 28th, 2014, 04:12 PM

It looks like a stock needle when I compared it to the pic you posted above. It has a marking "N9VW".

I only took the right needle out. Is it safe to assume the left needle would be the same?

agentbad · March 28th, 2014, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadd

It looks like a stock needle when I compared it to the pic you posted above. It has a marking "N9VW".

I only took the right needle out. Is it safe to assume the left needle would be the same?

Yeah should be. You could take a picture of the tank with the gas cap open when you park it then compare when you go to ride again. I know with my bike I just wait until my trip odometer gets close to 200 then I fill up. Is you gearing stock, plugs good, tires right pressure. Maybe try a different gas station or ethanol free. Your carbs look super clean. Make sure you sync them when you put them back on. Hell you could tear out the air box and install pods with a jet kit while your at it.

DaBlue1 · March 28th, 2014, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadd

I only took the right needle out. Is it safe to assume the left needle would be the same?

The left needle has a different number but it would be stock as well. So the PO had some mods and went back to stock when selling the bike?

So far everything looks good. If the bike runs fine, you can either shim the needles while you got the carbs out or leave it completely stock. most pople with slip-on exhaust usually shim the needles as well. As the weather gets warmer the performance of the bike will change a little too, but nothing major.

It's up to you at this point.

BTW, double check your plug gap. I couldn't tell by your pic if it looked good or not.

cadd · March 28th, 2014, 04:32 PM

Does the diaphragm look like it's seated properly to you?

cadd · March 28th, 2014, 04:39 PM

Are there any adjustments I need to make to the floats? Or that little Empire state building thing attached to it? If not, I'd like to put those back in and install the bowls back on.

The carbs were extremely clean. I didn't bother cleaning them. I just sprayed some carb cleaner into the four holes (two on each carb). The carb cleaners came out of the main jets and pilot jets.

When I put my fingers over the jets while spraying, they came out of those tiny holes.

DaBlue1 · March 28th, 2014, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadd

Does the diaphragm look like it's seated properly to you?

Diaphragm looks fine, needle looks off. Just be care putting the spring and top back on so as not to shift the diaphragm.

agentbad · March 28th, 2014, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadd

Are there any adjustments I need to make to the floats? Or that little Empire state building thing attached to it? If not, I'd like to put those back in and install the bowls back on.

The carbs were extremely clean. I didn't bother cleaning them. I just sprayed some carb cleaner into the four holes (two on each carb). The carb cleaners came out of the main jets and pilot jets.

When I put my fingers over the jets while spraying, they came out of those tiny holes.

Measure the float height just to be sure. Did you shim the needles to account for the exhaust?

cadd · March 28th, 2014, 04:47 PM

I did not shim the needles. I don't really want to. I want to keep it as stock as possible. Would this be an issue if I don't shim the needle with a slip on?

Also, how would I measure the float height? Would this be the issue of gasoline flowing through the motor into the crankcase where the motor oil is housed?

DaBlue1 · March 28th, 2014, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadd

I did not shim the needles. I don't really want to. I want to keep it as stock as possible. Would this be an issue if I don't shim the needle with a slip on?

No, not really. You've adjusted your idle mixture, that should help a little.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadd

Also, how would I measure the float height? Would be be the issue of gasoline flowing through the motor into the crankcase where the motor oil is housed?

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_..._the_floats%3F

cadd · March 28th, 2014, 04:59 PM

About 1.6cm. Is that close enough?

cadd · March 28th, 2014, 05:00 PM

DaBlue, after this job gets completed, give me your PayPal addy. I'd like to buy you a drink!

cadd · March 28th, 2014, 05:06 PM

Alright, I think I'm going to start putting the carbs back on. Do you guys think adjusting the fuel mixture by turning it out 2.5 turns will solve my issue? Essentially, I didn't do much. I just went

From:
Right side 1.75 turns out
Left side 2.5 turns out.

To:
Both sides 2.5 turns out.

Another issue I forgot to mention is that it was difficult for me to adjust the idle speed knob. It either jumps up to 1,800 or down to 1,000. I could get it to idle anywhere near 1300rpm.

Do you guy recommend that I look at anything else before I attempt to put the carbs back on?

agentbad · March 28th, 2014, 05:13 PM

That's at 16mm which is fine. 17mm +- 2mm is stock. Adjusting the idle mix screws to 2.5 out should smooth out the idle. Don't forget to sync when your done.

DaBlue1 · March 28th, 2014, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadd

About 1.6cm. Is that close enough?

close enough

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadd

DaBlue, after this job gets completed, give me your PayPal addy. I'd like to buy you a drink!

no need, it's all good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadd

Alright, I think I'm going to start putting the carbs back on. Do you guys think adjusting the fuel mixture by turning it out 2.5 turns will solve my issue?

Another issue I forgot to mention is that it was difficult for me to adjust the idle speed knob. It either jumps up to 1,800 or down to 1,000. I could get it to idle anywhere near 1300rpm.

May not completely solve your issue but should help. Warmer weather may get you different or better results.

Check your throttle cables and make sure they have the proper slack (2-3 mm of throttle grip play) then check the throttle linkage lever on the side of the carb and make sure it stops on the idle adjusting screw with the throttle fully closed.

cadd · March 28th, 2014, 05:36 PM

I have Sunday off. I'm going to wait until Sunday before I install the carbs back on. It's going to be another battle I'm not looking towards.

I saw that the throttle cable has a tiny bit of slack when I was pulling the carbs out (when in the fully closed position). I'll make sure when to adjust them accordingly when I reinstall.

The idle adjuster has a screw that sits flush with the the throttle assembly in the closed position as well.

I'll keep you guys updated once my spark plugs come in and I re-install the carbs back on.

I have my fingers crossed!!!

If it does not solve the issue, I'm not sure what to do next. I guess I'll take it to a mechanic and tell him what I've done so far and have him/her trouble shoot?

cadd · March 28th, 2014, 05:44 PM

Wait a minute!!!!!

If I went from 1.75 to 2.5 on the fuel mixture screw, wouldn't that make the bike run richer????

agentbad · March 28th, 2014, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadd

Wait a minute!!!!!

If I went from 1.75 to 2.5 on the fuel mixture screw, wouldn't that make the bike run richer????

It means one side of your bike was running lean and starving for fuel and it runs lean from the factory. The slip on exhaust would've compounded this problem. 2.5 out is good.

cadd · March 28th, 2014, 07:17 PM

When I took off the carbs, it looks like this.

Right side 1.75 turns out
Left side 2.5 turns out.

And I find this picture after doing a little more research. This is the default setting from the factory! But why would it be different for each cylinder? Just so confusing!

Yakaru · March 28th, 2014, 07:27 PM

If I recall correctly it has to do with the Kleen air system; but I'm super fuzzy on the topic so I could be lying.

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March 27th, 2014, 10:12 PM	#43
cadd cadd cadd cadd Name: Cadd Location: 41°21'13.1"N, 74°41'37.4"W Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 300 Posts: A lot. MOTM - May '15	You gotta be kidding me! So the rear fairing has to come off as well to get the snorkel off?!

March 27th, 2014, 10:42 PM	#44
Yakaru The Violet Vixen Name: Yakaru Location: Issaquah, WA & Las Vegas, NV Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): Perigee (250), Hotaru (250), Saturn (300), Pearl (300), Zero (S1000RR), Chibi (Z125), Xellos ('18 HP4R) Posts: A lot. MOTM - Jun '16	This is why I put pods on :P

March 27th, 2014, 11:22 PM	#45
cadd cadd cadd cadd Name: Cadd Location: 41°21'13.1"N, 74°41'37.4"W Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 300 Posts: A lot. MOTM - May '15	Is it possible to take the carbs out without taking the snorkel off? Has anyone done it? If I take off the left boot that connects the carb to the motor, would I have an easier time taking the carbs out without taking the snorkel off?

March 28th, 2014, 06:32 AM	#48
cadd cadd cadd cadd Name: Cadd Location: 41°21'13.1"N, 74°41'37.4"W Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 300 Posts: A lot. MOTM - May '15	Assuming I get the carbs out....and clean them. How would I adjust the fuel air mixture? Don't I have to run the bike? If I do, how on earth am I supposed to get a screwdriver down there and turn the mixture screws?!?! Guess it's time to invest in a tiny tiny tiny stubby screwdriver?

March 28th, 2014, 04:03 PM	#60
cadd cadd cadd cadd Name: Cadd Location: 41°21'13.1"N, 74°41'37.4"W Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 300 Posts: A lot. MOTM - May '15	How do I get the needles out?!?! A pair of tweezers would work? The mixture screws were set as follows: Right side 1.75 turns out Left side 2.5 turns out. I tighten both screws in (needle protrudes). Then I backed each one out 2.5 turns as you recommended. I guess now I have to take the needles out and take a pic for you to look at and see what recommendations you have. I'm assuming with a pair of tweezers, I can just pull them straight out? Or would I have to unscrew them out?

March 28th, 2014, 04:39 PM	#66
cadd cadd cadd cadd Name: Cadd Location: 41°21'13.1"N, 74°41'37.4"W Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 300 Posts: A lot. MOTM - May '15	Are there any adjustments I need to make to the floats? Or that little Empire state building thing attached to it? If not, I'd like to put those back in and install the bowls back on. The carbs were extremely clean. I didn't bother cleaning them. I just sprayed some carb cleaner into the four holes (two on each carb). The carb cleaners came out of the main jets and pilot jets. When I put my fingers over the jets while spraying, they came out of those tiny holes.

March 28th, 2014, 04:47 PM	#69
cadd cadd cadd cadd Name: Cadd Location: 41°21'13.1"N, 74°41'37.4"W Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 300 Posts: A lot. MOTM - May '15	I did not shim the needles. I don't really want to. I want to keep it as stock as possible. Would this be an issue if I don't shim the needle with a slip on? Also, how would I measure the float height? Would this be the issue of gasoline flowing through the motor into the crankcase where the motor oil is housed?

March 28th, 2014, 05:00 PM	#72
cadd cadd cadd cadd Name: Cadd Location: 41°21'13.1"N, 74°41'37.4"W Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 300 Posts: A lot. MOTM - May '15	DaBlue, after this job gets completed, give me your PayPal addy. I'd like to buy you a drink!

March 28th, 2014, 05:06 PM	#73
cadd cadd cadd cadd Name: Cadd Location: 41°21'13.1"N, 74°41'37.4"W Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 300 Posts: A lot. MOTM - May '15	Alright, I think I'm going to start putting the carbs back on. Do you guys think adjusting the fuel mixture by turning it out 2.5 turns will solve my issue? Essentially, I didn't do much. I just went From: Right side 1.75 turns out Left side 2.5 turns out. To: Both sides 2.5 turns out. Another issue I forgot to mention is that it was difficult for me to adjust the idle speed knob. It either jumps up to 1,800 or down to 1,000. I could get it to idle anywhere near 1300rpm. Do you guy recommend that I look at anything else before I attempt to put the carbs back on?

March 28th, 2014, 05:13 PM	#74
agentbad ninjette.org sage Name: bob Location: Earf Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Ninja 250, 2006 SV650N Posts: 642	That's at 16mm which is fine. 17mm +- 2mm is stock. Adjusting the idle mix screws to 2.5 out should smooth out the idle. Don't forget to sync when your done.

March 28th, 2014, 05:36 PM	#76
cadd cadd cadd cadd Name: Cadd Location: 41°21'13.1"N, 74°41'37.4"W Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 300 Posts: A lot. MOTM - May '15	I have Sunday off. I'm going to wait until Sunday before I install the carbs back on. It's going to be another battle I'm not looking towards. I saw that the throttle cable has a tiny bit of slack when I was pulling the carbs out (when in the fully closed position). I'll make sure when to adjust them accordingly when I reinstall. The idle adjuster has a screw that sits flush with the the throttle assembly in the closed position as well. I'll keep you guys updated once my spark plugs come in and I re-install the carbs back on. I have my fingers crossed!!! If it does not solve the issue, I'm not sure what to do next. I guess I'll take it to a mechanic and tell him what I've done so far and have him/her trouble shoot?

March 28th, 2014, 05:44 PM	#77
cadd cadd cadd cadd Name: Cadd Location: 41°21'13.1"N, 74°41'37.4"W Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 300 Posts: A lot. MOTM - May '15	Wait a minute!!!!! If I went from 1.75 to 2.5 on the fuel mixture screw, wouldn't that make the bike run richer????

March 28th, 2014, 07:27 PM	#80
Yakaru The Violet Vixen Name: Yakaru Location: Issaquah, WA & Las Vegas, NV Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): Perigee (250), Hotaru (250), Saturn (300), Pearl (300), Zero (S1000RR), Chibi (Z125), Xellos ('18 HP4R) Posts: A lot. MOTM - Jun '16	If I recall correctly it has to do with the Kleen air system; but I'm super fuzzy on the topic so I could be lying.