Honzuki SVCR500S

[TheDuck]

For the last few months in my spare time I have been cleaning up and putting together a beat up Suzuki SV650S along with odds and ends from my parts bin. I picked it up for $200 with a street-legal title, not running, and in some really sorry shape:



The bike had been spraypainted all over in different colors, nothing masked or disassembled and it was just a mess!











So there was lots of pressure-washing, scrubbing, paint-stripping, sandblasting, polishing and I managed to turn out a nice clean roller:





So... rebuild the SV650 engine... or break the mold? Yep, you guessed it!

The frame was nice and narrow, so I tried to put a CR500 engine (2-stroke baby!) in it, and it fit in there nice and snug!





I bought a tweaked CR500 frame for a couple bucks and hacked-off the engine cradle from the bottom. Its not aluminum of course, but steel is compatible with my welding equipment.



The engine was bolted to the cradle, and I set the bike plumb to earth and jacked the engine up into it. I also made sure the engine was straight, then began to cut out and weld together the fittings that allow me to bolt the cradle into the SV frame using the SV engine mounting hardware.



The end result in the rear (I neglected to take pics of the front, but the next time I take it apart I will take some more pics and post):



Then the engine was bolted into place and I rolled it outside for some more pics:



The SV uses a 525 chain, the CR uses a 520. This was a problem as the rear sprocket on the SV won't mesh up with the CR chain. Both the 520 and 525 chains have the same length links, but the 520 is thinner. I grabbed my calipers and found the 520 is about 2mm thinner. So I grinded the SV sprocket's teeth down to spec. Tested with the CR chain, FITS PERFECTLY. I removed 4 links from the CR chain, and it fit onto the bike well.



So I was glad that all this worked out so well, but I knew the exhaust was going to be a b!tch. I got a cracked FMF Gnarly pipe for $30, cut it into sections and welded it back together to fit what is now the SVCR!







...and lastly this is a semi-completed SVCR500S which is where I am at now:



Some things left to be sorted out:

1. Extending the kickstarter shaft to allow the kicker clear the frame.
2. Electrics
3. Exhaust Silencer(s)
4. Cosmetics/paint/bodywork
5. Honzuki SVCR500S decals!

On the kickstarter shaft extension I am open for suggestions from anyone, it needs to be about 3in longer. I will construct a bushing to support the middle of it to stop the extra leverage from breaking the case.



For the electrics, I may just wire everything custom, I don't think I will be reusing the SV harness, there are many extra things on it that aren't useful anymore. I will need a good stator. I guess an E-Line or a Service Honda ingnition will provide all the power I need.... but NO BATTERY NEEDED = WEIGHT SAVINGS! YAY!

I think I am going to go with a pair of GP-style exhaust silencers from TZMike on a custom Y-pipe after the expansion chamber.



the dual set up should end up looking similiar to this:



As far as the bodywork, well, its going to be streetfighter for a while until I feel like spending the money to put new plastic on it.

Stay tuned! More to come!

[Alex]

What a great project!!!

[kkim]

Holy crap... that's amazing!!!

Go, Duckie, GO!!!!

[k-os]

I like it. You got some skills. Keep us up to date.

[NJD022588]

Hey Doc, where do you plan on putting the flux capacitor?

[Syphen]

Wow... simply wow. Great work!

I'm sure it will be a wheelie monster once its running. What can a tuned CR500 pump out.. 85 - 90 hp?

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Syphen

Wow... simply wow. Great work!

I'm sure it will be a wheelie monster once its running. What can a tuned CR500 pump out.. 85 - 90 hp?

lol... nose bleeds, at least!

[TheDuck]

Originally Posted by kkim

lol... nose bleeds, at least!

Only if you wind up on your ass with the front fender in your mouth!

[kkim]

Originally Posted by TheDuck

Only if you wind up on your ass with the front fender in your mouth!

which is quite likely as I remember those 500 2 stroke singles are monsters. In a drag race, with street tires on a cr500, they raced a 500 street bike. The cr500 won every time by a huge margin... that motor's a beast!

[TheDuck]

Originally Posted by kkim

which is quite likely as I remember those 500 2 stroke singles are monsters. In a drag race, with street tires on a cr500, they raced a 500 street bike. The cr500 won every time by a huge margin... that motor's a beast!

They will beat 600s and 750s too, I have seen an unmodified CR500 on street tires squash a 'busa and a ZX-12 also. My ZX-14 friend is already starting to sweat, lol. I told him there is no way I can get him over 80-100mph, but from stoplight to stoplight, you bet your ass!

All that sounds great and wonderful.... IF I CAN KEEP THE FRONT END DOWN!

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

A suggestion for the kick start. It looks like the part that actually bolts to the engine is steel right and can be removed from the kicker?

Bolt a short piece of flat steel from it that you can weld a 3" piece of round pipe. Then weld another flat piece onto end of that to remount the kicker. With the round pipe in there you can make a bracket that'll bolt to the frame somehow to support it while it's still able to rotate. You'll have to make it so that the pipe is inline with the shaft coming out of the engine.

Hopefully you get what I'm trying to say.

PS. cool project. How much have you spent so far?

[TheDuck]

Originally Posted by Bluevitz-RS

A suggestion for the kick start. It looks like the part that actually bolts to the engine is steel right and can be removed from the kicker?

Bolt a short piece of flat steel from it that you can weld a 3" piece of round pipe. Then weld another flat piece onto end of that to remount the kicker. With the round pipe in there you can make a bracket that'll bolt to the frame somehow to support it while it's still able to rotate. You'll have to make it so that the pipe is inline with the shaft coming out of the engine.

Hopefully you get what I'm trying to say.

PS. cool project. How much have you spent so far?

Nah, I don't think I quite follow.



This is a kickstarter shaft removed from a CR500 engine. I just need the right side extended about 3" before the splines. I might be able to have a local machinist make a new longer one or extend my existing part.

I just really didn't want to tear the engine part just to install it, but I might have to anyways, the clutch is sticking a little, and that is all on that side of the engine.

OR, I think I might be able to get a second one and couple them together somehow.

[camaroz1985]

Getting it extended is probably a better bet. Cutting those splines and gear teeth would not be fun.

Maybe you can cut it, have a coupler made to extend it that fits over both pieces and drill the pieces for roll pins and put it back together.

[TheDuck]

Originally Posted by camaroz1985

Getting it extended is probably a better bet. Cutting those splines and gear teeth would not be fun.

Maybe you can cut it, have a coupler made to extend it that fits over both pieces and drill the pieces for roll pins and put it back together.

Yep, starting to lean that way. I will take the engine apart maybe this weekend and remove the shaft.

[NJD022588]

Originally Posted by camaroz1985

Getting it extended is probably a better bet. Cutting those splines and gear teeth would not be fun.

Maybe you can cut it, have a coupler made to extend it that fits over both pieces and drill the pieces for roll pins and put it back together.

That seems like a great idea as long as the the sections that fit over the original shaft are not too wide, where they might rub on any openings the shaft goes through or neighboring parts.

[TheDuck]

Originally Posted by NJD022588

That seems like a great idea as long as the the sections that fit over the original shaft are not too wide, where they might rub on any openings the shaft goes through or neighboring parts.

A good machinist wouldn't let that happen

[Mista Bob]

Amazing!
Thanks for posting this, you're my hero. =P

Motorcycle engine swaps have always fascinated me.
Some day I'll be looking into what I could do with my ZZR-250.
So it's good to see other peoples work to inspire me.

How hard would you say it was to get the engine mounted in the SV frame?
Really wish I knew how to weld... would save me so much $$$

[TheDuck]

Thanks, everyone, for the compliments!

Originally Posted by Mista Bob

Amazing!
Thanks for posting this, you're my hero. =P

Motorcycle engine swaps have always fascinated me.
Some day I'll be looking into what I could do with my ZZR-250.
So it's good to see other peoples work to inspire me.

How hard would you say it was to get the engine mounted in the SV frame?
Really wish I knew how to weld... would save me so much $$$

It wasn't really that hard at all because I cheated by using the lower portion of a CR500 frame as the engine cradle! All I had to do then was weld mounting points onto it to the factory bolt locations on the SV frame. With all the measuring, cutting, and welding I actually had that together in a few hours.

The exhaust on the other hand was a project that took a week. There was lots of cutting,and grinding, and trying different things until I got it the way it would fit.

[HKr1]

Pretty cool man!

Chambers are really sensitive, I wonder how the pipe is gonna work out.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by HKr1

Chambers are really sensitive, I wonder how the pipe is gonna work out.

exactly what I was thinking. expansion chamber design is critical to power output on a 2 stroke.

[TheDuck]

Originally Posted by HKr1

Pretty cool man!

Chambers are really sensitive, I wonder how the pipe is gonna work out.

Originally Posted by kkim

exactly what I was thinking. expansion chamber design is critical to power output on a 2 stroke.

The pipe is the same length and diameter as before, the expansion chambers are sensitive to diameter and length.

As with any exhausts, the less turns the better, and turns in the SAME DIRECTION are better than flip-flopping. This pipe is also straighter than before, and most of the turns are in the same direction, so the theory is, it should perform better than the original design.

I guess we'll see! Either way, I have a pipe that fits this bike... for $30!

[HKr1]

Hope so! Think its the back pressure wave, to close the exhaust port that matters most

Maybe you need to borrow this old book!

Side note: Tony Smith Racing out in El Cajon California, made me some hand made chambers for my RD430 < Wholly crap what a diff! Of course he did the IT175 pistons & fixing of port timing to make them work at first.

[TheDuck]

Today I worked out a few of the little niggles I ran into since I mounted the motor. If the chain came a little loose, it would tap on the engine cradle so I cut a notch in it as you can see in the lower left below the sprocket for further clearance.



I then reinforced the cradle mounting points as I wanted to previously, its VERY strong now, and actually helps add back to the rigidity of the frame. Triangles are much stronger than straight brackets. I will further make braces to bolt to the unused bolt locations on the frame to make everything nice and tight and try to keep the frame rigid since the SV engine was an integral part of this machine's structure and its gone now! ;D I also capped off a few of the cuts from when I separated the cradle from the rest of the CR500 frame.











With the engine out of the cradle were out I took a few more pics:





The engine resting in the cradle:





I haven't put the chain back on yet, but I am sure it should clear the cradle properly without tapping on it. If not, I will cut it some more. If so, I will cap it off, too!

Everything is great so far though, here we are tonight:



...and FREE bar ends off a ZX-14!

[TheDuck]

Quickie update:

The chain doesn't clear the engine cradle to my liking, it will take more grinding tomorrow and then I will weld it all up!

[NJD022588]

Do you plan on doing anything with the color of the engine cradle? Or do you know yet if you'll be putting the plastics back on?

[kkim]

I was wondering where you were.

Been a busy beaver... er, Ducky, eh? Looking good... can't wait to see the completed project! Step by step, inch by inch...

pictures, pictures, pictures.

[TheDuck]

Originally Posted by NJD022588

Do you plan on doing anything with the color of the engine cradle? Or do you know yet if you'll be putting the plastics back on?

Nope, I am going to leave the cradle ugly red and let the bare metal rust out so it destroys all of my hard work!

The plastics I have are ruined, I haven't decided what I want to do with all that just yet.

Originally Posted by kkim

I was wondering where you were.

Been a busy beaver... er, Ducky, eh? Looking good... can't wait to see the completed project! Step by step, inch by inch...

pictures, pictures, pictures.

Not so much, really, I haven't touched this bike in a week until earlier today.

[TheDuck]

This is the last chance that I will have any time to work on this sucker until after the New Year. So here we go!

I further cut into the cradle to make clearance for the chain as I needed in Update #3 above, then welded a custom cap onto the end.





Once I got that working I tested it for fitment (no pic) and the contour of the new chain notch assumes the same contour of the lower frame beneath the swingarm.

I then wirewheeled all the crap off of it, degreased it and scratched it up and prepped it for paint. Painted, still needs one more coat, but looks good!

What kind of welder are you using? There's a lot of spatter.

[TheDuck]

Originally Posted by Bluevitz-RS

What kind of welder are you using? There's a lot of spatter.

Its a cheap MIG gasless flux, a lot of the spatter you see is the flux itself. Plus I haven't welded in a while and lost the feel. My welds are good and strong, but I slip up and make mistakes when I try to go as fast as I used to, hehe.

I chipped most of the spatter off and cleaned the rest off with the grinder before painting.

Originally Posted by TheDuck

Its a cheap MIG gasless flux, a lot of the spatter you see is the flux itself. Plus I haven't welded in a while and lost the feel. My welds are good and strong, but I slip up and make mistakes when I try to go as fast as I used to, hehe.

I chipped most of the spatter off and cleaned the rest off with the grinder before painting.

You can get anti-spatter spray and spray the parts you aren't directly welding. It work really well. Most spatter doesn't stick, and the stuff that does comes off with a wire brush.

I have a Lincon Mig 150 gas welder. But when I first bought it, (used) it came with flux-core wire and it looked the same when I welded. It didn't take me long to get the gas, and what a difference it makes. Super clean and a lot better consistency.

[TheDuck]

Originally Posted by Bluevitz-RS

You can get anti-spatter spray

I never even knew about that! I will have to check that out!

My welder doesn't convert to gas unfortunately, but its what I have and its paid for!

Thanks for the suggestions! Shame I don't have much left to weld now, haha.

[k-os]

It's looking good.

[TheDuck]

After a bit of a holiday break, I went and got a few more coats of paint on the engine cradle, let it dry a few days then mounted it and snapped a few more pics.

It feels good to get rid of that awful red and at least have something semi-presentable now!

You can see the chain-clearancing notch I cut out and welded up.



Here it is close-up.



And finally, a wide-angle shot.

[Erin_S]

That's awesome. ^_^

Any idea what the wet weight/ horespower/ torque will be afterwords?

[kkim]

Happy New Year, Ducky!

[TheDuck]

Originally Posted by Erin_S

That's awesome. ^_^

Any idea what the wet weight/ horespower/ torque will be afterwords?

Dry should be about 280-300lbs. Even with the engine in it I can lift it completely off the ground by just grabbing onto the frame!

So add 30lbs or so for juices.

About 60-70hp well-tuned.

I dunno the TQ figures, I'll have to research!

[Erin_S]

Wow.

That's a loss of 77-107 lbs. How? All in the engine/starter/battery? o.o

[Alex]

Every update to this thread makes me smile, Ducky. Can't wait until it's up and running!

[TheDuck]

Originally Posted by Erin_S

Wow.

That's a loss of 77-107 lbs. How? All in the engine/starter/battery? o.o

The Suzuki SV engine (the lump without accessories) weighs more than 120lbs. The starter was seperate from the engine when I weighed it, but I can't imagine that being more than about 1lb.

The Honda CR500 engine comes in around 55lbs.

So yeah, that alone right there was the majority of weight savings!

I also ditched the battery, as the CR500 engine is kickstart. It won't be useful to me.

The SV had 2 carbs and 2 coils, the CR as 1 of each.

The SV airbox and filter are junked too, instead replaced with a smaller lighter pod filter on the CR's carb.

The SV exhaust had a lot of plumbing under the bike that could be eiliminated, too. The expansion chamber I am using now is kinda bulky, but feels to weigh a little less.


A few other smaller things to consider:

No SV computers and extra wiring is needed, I also cut parts out of the tail/subframe that were uncessary for my build. I may just junk the factory harness entirely, this includes the heavy regulator. The CR electric kits have regulators built into them.

All paint/powdercoating stripped off the frame and wheels.

I am using a 520 chain instead of the 525.

I eliminated a few pounds of extra mounting bolts for the SV engine that I can't use.

I think I am going to eliminate the rear seat and put a 1 piece custom racing tail on it. I kinda like streamlined bodywork, and that will clean up the back and get rid of a lot of the extra passenger seat crap in the factory tail.

The upper fairing stay is ugly, overengineered, and HEAVY, that goes bye bye too! I will make something MUCH lighter to take its place.

I may use the SV thermostat for cooling, or if I wanna be lighter I will eliminate that completely, too!

I will get some pics of me picking the bike up for you if I can position the camera right or if I can get one of the neighbors (or stray women that come around) to snap a decent shot.