Wondering if I should get a Ninja or get into motorcycle riding in general.

[vampscara]

Would a motorcycle, particularly a Ninja 250/300, be good for someone that never took to driving a car?

Background: I took Driver's Ed. at 18 (passed and have a license) and have maybe a couple hours driving experience outside of that. I am extremely uncomfortable driving a car or truck. Being short, I cannot see most, if any, of the hood on pretty much every car/truck I've been in. Not being able to see the end of the car makes aiming into a parking space, for instance, rather difficult. Handling for all 3 vehicles I've driven felt awkward and just in general bad (2 cars, 1 truck). Despite discomfort bordering on hating driving, I am rather fond of amusement park go carts and bumper cars (wish they'd go faster).

Why I think a motorcycle might be right for me: I'm vastly more comfortable riding my pedal bike on the street. Have never gone far and have only ever needed to cross one intersection outside of my neighborhood. Have gone far enough to have ingrained that if I don't watch out, then I'm gonna end up a pancake (there's nothing nice I can say about right turner's). Even with having had some close calls, I feel so much more comfortable riding my pedal bike than I ever did driving.

Why I think a Ninja might be right for me: I really like the sport look. I know it's a bit on the tall side for me; but, I've looked around online and see plenty of other short people handle it just fine. Most pedal biking I've done on bikes large for my size (up to one sized for a 6 ft + guy cuz he doubted me and I knew I could no problem). Because of this, I'm ok with not being able to flat foot. I know a motorcycle will be vastly different; but, a thing like this should be applicable.

About me: 24, female, 5ft tall. If there's anything else relevant feel free to ask.

Another question: I'd really like to wear ATGATT; but, I doubt I can find jacket or pants that would fit without having to pay a ton to have them custom made. Would having a tailor alter sleeve/pant leg length make protective gear less effective? The jacket I could probably make due without alterations. Pants would definitely have to be altered to not be 6 inches + too long. Kid's gear probably wouldn't work either as I am adult proportioned just lacking in height.

[Aggrotech]

id say absolutely try it.

all you need for the BRC is gloves/ any sort of long sleeve shirt and a pair of boots. they SHOULD provide a helmet if you do not have one.

[vampscara]

Originally Posted by Aggrotech

id say absolutely try it.

all you need for the BRC is gloves/ any sort of long sleeve shirt and a pair of boots. they SHOULD provide a helmet if you do not have one.

Yea the place I'd go through provides helmets. I'd just have to buy gloves and eye protection to be able to meet their requirements.

[Asspire]

Hmmmm, I would say not having on road experience is a big factor. It's one thing to learn to ride, it another to learn to ride and have to learn how to dodge traffic. Just remember that you're gonna be zipping along on a 400lbs of metal, sharing the road with 2 tons of metal that want to murder you.

[Aggrotech]

Originally Posted by Asspire

I would say not having on road experience is a big factor. It's one thing to learn to ride, it another to learn to ride and have to learn how to dodge traffic.

I did exactly this. Never driven a car until AFTER i did the brc and bought my motorcycle. As long as you dont panic over every little thing going on around you, you'll be completely fine.

[Apex]

At least the course would help generate confidence. She would only need to pass, get the bike, then practice in the neighborhood.

Sure it is nice to have experience, but when I got my first bike at 19, you can't say I was a very experienced driver. I had only driven for a couple of years before that, and most of it was very close to home with very little highway driving.

As long as she pays attention, which apparently she does while riding a bicycle (assuming she is actually on the street and not the sidewalk), a motorcycle is practically the same, except you are going the same speed as the other vehicles (and you are wearing more gear).

[vampscara]

I do ride the pedal bike on the street. Rode on a dirt road even (until it got paved).

[slickt0mmy]

As most others have said, taking a BRC should help you immensely both in deciding whether this is something you want to get into and teaching you the proper way to ride. You sound like the perfect candidate!

As far as the gear goes, it may be possible to get the shortest pants you can find and then simply roll the cuffs (if you don't mind that look) for a while until you can find/afford a good tailer or friend to hem them for you. I'm sure you know someone with a sewing machine, you may just have to ask around a bit

Also, it'll take some extra work but if the Ninja is too tall for you, it is possible to lower it a couple inches.

[vampscara]

Originally Posted by slickt0mmy

As most others have said, taking a BRC should help you immensely both in deciding whether this is something you want to get into and teaching you the proper way to ride. You sound like the perfect candidate!

As far as the gear goes, it may be possible to get the shortest pants you can find and then simply roll the cuffs (if you don't mind that look) for a while until you can find/afford a good tailer or friend to hem them for you. I'm sure you know someone with a sewing machine, you may just have to ask around a bit

Also, it'll take some extra work but if the Ninja is too tall for you, it is possible to lower it a couple inches.

I do know someone who could tailor the pants. Just wanted to be sure it's okay to do so.

I've looked into lowering already. Looks like something I could do myself without too much trouble (I do have some basic mechanical experience from a high school auto mech class). Think I prefer the extra visibility the height gives as long as I can handle it, though.

[JELY1990]

How much traffic is in your area? If there's a lot and you don't have much driving experience, learning to ride a motorcycle and read traffic at the same time will increase your risk factor for getting in an accident. I know you said you've ridden a bicycle quite a bit on the road, but that's a little different. However, I say that based off of my experience riding a bicycle the majority of the time throughout high school and your mileage may vary. To me, riding a bicycle on the shoulder or in a bike lane is much different than riding in a lane, going the same speed as traffic.

That being said, I'd say taking the MSF sounds like a good idea, because that will give you an idea of whether or not you enjoy riding a motorcycle.

[vampscara]

Originally Posted by JELY1990

How much traffic is in your area? If there's a lot and you don't have much driving experience, learning to ride a motorcycle and read traffic at the same time will increase your risk factor for getting in an accident. I know you said you've ridden a bicycle quite a bit on the road, but that's a little different. However, I say that based off of my experience riding a bicycle the majority of the time throughout high school and your mileage may vary. To me, riding a bicycle on the shoulder or in a bike lane is much different than riding in a lane, going the same speed as traffic.

That being said, I'd say taking the MSF sounds like a good idea, because that will give you an idea of whether or not you enjoy riding a motorcycle.

Major city and out of the neighborhood is a well developed area with Walmart, Lowes, several other shopping places, a few small places like Game Stop, and food places ranging from sit down restaruants to fast food all in a small area. There is no bike lane so I ride in the traffic lane, taking the lane except for at the intersection because I can't trigger the light. If I do get a motorcycle it will be after a MSF course and I wouldn't leave residential with it until I'm comfortable operating it in the calmer setting (I can get a family member to bring it home on a trailer).

[tfkrocks]

I'm a hair under 5 feet tall and I've been doing just fine. I have gear that fits reasonably well. I highly recommented rev'it overpants because they have a velcro strap to secure the bottom of the pant legs and it keeps them from dragging. Jackets shouldn't be too much of a problem. women's gear should be small enough. Dainese has a good range of sizes, although their stuff is more expensive. Alpinestars makes boots in smaller sizes.

I've had a lowered 250 before and I lowered the 300 I have now, but honestly at this point I actually want to raise it back up. Once you get more comfortable, you really don't need both feet on the ground.

I highly recommend the MSF BRC.

[vampscara]

Originally Posted by tfkrocks

I'm a hair under 5 feet tall and I've been doing just fine. I have gear that fits reasonably well. I highly recommented rev'it overpants because they have a velcro strap to secure the bottom of the pant legs and it keeps them from dragging. Jackets shouldn't be too much of a problem. women's gear should be small enough. Dainese has a good range of sizes, although their stuff is more expensive. Alpinestars makes boots in smaller sizes.

I've had a lowered 250 before and I lowered the 300 I have now, but honestly at this point I actually want to raise it back up. Once you get more comfortable, you really don't need both feet on the ground.

Ooo thanks for the tips. I'll have to look into the pants. Jacket wise I may have to go mens for a good range of movement (shoulders are a bit broad). Boots I'm not too worried about. Mens 5 fits me decently or average womens if it comes wide.

[tfkrocks]

Originally Posted by vampscara

Ooo thanks for the tips. I'll have to look into the pants. Jacket wise I may have to go mens for a good range of movement (shoulders are a bit broad). Boots I'm not too worried about. Mens 5 fits me decently or average womens if it comes wide.

Sounds like you're built about the same as me then. I currently have a small mens Icon jacket but it's a tad large and I don't recommend it. Most companies seem to not go down as far in sizes with their leather jackets compared to their textiles. I have found Dainese's smallest mens leather jacket size to be very well-fitting. I'm the same shoe size and I have found that most boot companies only go down to a mens 7 (for race boots anyway), but Alpinestars definitely has that size.

[vampscara]

Originally Posted by tfkrocks

Sounds like you're built about the same as me then. I currently have a small mens Icon jacket but it's a tad large and I don't recommend it. Most companies seem to not go down as far in sizes with their leather jackets compared to their textiles. I have found Dainese's smallest mens leather jacket size to be very well-fitting. I'm the same shoe size and I have found that most boot companies only go down to a mens 7 (for race boots anyway), but Alpinestars definitely has that size.

Good to know about the Icon jacket. Personally, I'm not locked into sport gear. While I prefer the sport bike look, with my fashion sense I'll probably end up in Harley boots and leathers (at least when the temps are cool enough I won't roast). Actually thinking about it I may already have boots that would work. Just have to check what they are made out of.

[tfkrocks]

Originally Posted by vampscara

Good to know about the Icon jacket. Personally, I'm not locked into sport gear. While I prefer the sport bike look, with my fashion sense I'll probably end up in Harley boots and leathers (at least when the temps are cool enough I won't roast). Actually thinking about it I may already have boots that would work. Just have to check what they are made out of.

Keep in mind that just because boots cover the ankle doesn't mean that they'll prevent injury-causing ankle movement in a crash.

[vampscara]

Originally Posted by tfkrocks

Keep in mind that just because boots cover the ankle doesn't mean that they'll prevent injury-causing ankle movement in a crash.

That's a really good point to keep in mind. The boots I have in mind may be actual motorcycle boots, I'll have to dig them out and see some time (thrift store find in good condition so will take some research).

[cuong-nutz]

Icon probably has the most gear variety for female riders sport or cruiser variants. You may also try out Scorpion too.

Most vendors put up lots of sales so check them out frequently: motorcyclesuperstore.com, motorcyclegear.com, revzilla.com, sportbiketrackgear.com, ebay, and craigslist.

[Tigerpaw]

The bike will NOT be noticeably less visible from lowering it.

The MSF BRC will be the best way to judge if you want a bike.

[Panda]

I'd recommend getting confidence and learning how to drive a car on the street first. There is a lot going on when learning how to navigate the roads,. There is even more going on with a bike.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by vampscara

Major city and out of the neighborhood is a well developed area with Walmart, Lowes, several other shopping places, a few small places like Game Stop, and food places ranging from sit down restaruants to fast food all in a small area. There is no bike lane so I ride in the traffic lane, taking the lane except for at the intersection because I can't trigger the light. If I do get a motorcycle it will be after a MSF course and I wouldn't leave residential with it until I'm comfortable operating it in the calmer setting (I can get a family member to bring it home on a trailer).

My advice: I see too much risk involved in your idea.

Not because you will not be able to ride a motorcycle, even heavier and bigger than the Ninja 250.

Please, read this article:

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/fe...ltistrada_620/

If you want to use the bike as transportation, the learning process involves much more than learning to properly control and service the motorcycle.

Surviving in city traffic requires a whole different set of skills.
You cannot learn both types of skills at the same time, without increasing your risk of being badly hurt or even killed.

If cars are out of the equation for you, then I would recommend you starting your learning curve with a lighter and lower street machine: a scooter with no more of 10 HP of power.

Feeling "comfortable operating" a scooter or motorcycle and adventuring into traffic is even more dangerous because your level of self-confidence will increase rapidly and you will naturally become faster and less alert, exactly the opposite of what you need to survive.

At that point, being limited by the power of your machine is great.
Dragging for some time in the misery of low speeds will make you a much safer and better rider.
It is not a coincidence that so many inexperienced riders get killed every month while riding highly powered motorcycles.

Wear it but don't ever trust the gear to protect you in an accident.
Not putting yourself in an accident prone situation, or allowing others doing it, must be your main goal from now on.

Sorry if I sound harsh; I take your safety very seriously.
I have been riding in the streets for many years and there is no week that goes by without the traffic placing me in a dangerous situation that demands the quick use of all my skills, tricks and senses.

Please, don't get discouraged, just understand that there is much to be learned before being ready for what you want to do.

[slickt0mmy]

I think Motofool hit the nail on the head with that one. I hadn't even thought about a scooter.
That would be a great way to introduce yourself to the world of two wheels, while still going slow enough to safely get experience being on the road.

[Alex]

Great thread so far. One thing that comes to mind is that half of Europe seems to use and learn the roads on 2 wheels before they move to cars. It's a very normal progression, and is one reason why cars seem to be somewhat more careful around motorcycles, as so many drivers there have personal experience in the rider's position.

[ChrisMKV]

Originally Posted by Alex

Great thread so far. One thing that comes to mind is that half of Europe seems to use and learn the roads on 2 wheels before they move to cars. It's a very normal progression, and is one reason why cars seem to be somewhat more careful around motorcycles, as so many drivers there have personal experience in the rider's position.

That is indeed the case, many young ones do their A1 permit as soon as possible (16 years here) and then ride on 125cc scooters/bikes. These can't really go too fast so the dangers are manageable even for the inexperienced.

That said, I got my bike license way after the cage license. The instructor "threw" me on the street and into traffic right at the end of the first two-hour lesson (first time ever on any kind of motorcycle) - I sure was glad I didn't need to concentrate on the rules of the road as well as manage in the bike.

[80MPHdownhill]

I wouldn't do that. IMO your odds of getting seriously hurt are very high.

[hirubhaiambani]

Try a 250cc cruiser bike. Easy to learn on and cheap. Might be easier to operate for shorter riders.

I'd recommend going to a dealership and sitting on a Ninja 250/300 or YamahaVstar 250. . If you like the feeling of sitting on one and think you can ride it, definitely try the MSF course.

Please make an informed choice. There is no shame in deciding not to ride motorcycles.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...rcycle#slide-1

Cheers!

[allanoue]

I think you have a good head on your shoulders and you are well on your way to making a good informed decision. Personally, I feel safer on a motorcycle in traffic then I do peddling in traffic.

[voidrider]

I want to touch upon something the OP mentioned that I haven't seen addressed in this thread:

Originally Posted by vampscara

Being short, I cannot see most, if any, of the hood on pretty much every car/truck I've been in. Not being able to see the end of the car makes aiming into a parking space, for instance, rather difficult. Handling for all 3 vehicles I've driven felt awkward and just in general bad (2 cars, 1 truck). Despite discomfort bordering on hating driving,

I will often walk around an unfamiliar vehicle before driving it. I very quickly "get" the feeling for its length and width, as I have extremely good spatial perceptions. I don't need to "see" the front of the car or truck I am driving - and I am a shorty too.

If this is a "spatial perception issue", the form factor of a motorcycle itself be great, as a rider you pretty much see what there is.

BUT, my concern then goes to other issues regarding spatial perception. Does the OP have issues judging speed/distance? These are critical on a motorcycle IMO. You are dealing with traveling along, and continually need to be aware of, and capably judging times and distances of other moving objects. Only she can address with issue.

I feel a LOT of drivers are better drivers for riding motorcycles. I think it heightens situational awareness compared to the dull lack of comprehension so many drivers have when robotically driving to and from work. However, the safety issues of learning to deal with traffic AND learning to ride a motorcycle competently at the same time.. they absolutely do compound each other.

If the OP does feel she may have spatial perception issues, I would suggest against a cruiser, as she may do better with a more "heads up" on top of the bike perspective.

[algs26]

Here's a training video with commentary by the rider. I watched some other pretty good ones (with various situations) by a different poster but they were all privated:

Link to original page on YouTube.

On a bike you have to worry about all the same things you would be in car plus some bonus stuff like surface hazards, being essentially invisible, etc. Stuff they'll go over somewhat in the MSF.

[ally99]

If you have the question, I'd say yes, you should try it. Or you'll always wonder. If it's not for you, at least you'll know.
Edit: By the way, I never thought I'd be capable of operating a motorcycle. Let's just say how utterly wrong I was! And I love it!

[lgk]

just get a jacket and pants that fit semi good, and take the MSF.
see if you're comfortable with riding.

then factor in the additional cost of custom leathers and motoports when you get a bike afterwards.

just be smooth with the controls and you'll be fine.

[Apex]

If she is pedaling her way around and can negotiate traffic on a bicycle, then many of those habits translate directly to the motorcycle. Cyclists constantly are on the lookout for cars, potholes, bumps, dips, critters, trash, pedestrians, etc. I think much of the skills to operate a motorcycle have already been learned, to an extent.

[lilmitchy777]

DO ET

[the_little_one]

Hi there, Vampscara. I'm a short (5'0") newbie riding a lowered 250 with ATTGATT, so it's definitely possible. I'm very much enjoying riding and learning how to be a better rider all the time, so I understand the thrill from the idea of hopping onto a cool and speedy machine.

That said, however, I very much agree with what JELY1990 and motofool have posted. Although the MSF BRC will introduce you to the feel of a motorcycle, I'm much more concerned that you have not had much experience dealing with the many perils of road traffic. Avoiding driving hazards on a bicycle is MUCH different than doing so in a car and takes even more coordination and skill when on a motorcycle.

So I agree with motofool, to start out with a scooter to become more comfortable operating a vehicle in faster moving traffic. Then you can progress from there.

Also, just want to clarify that I do hope you will enjoy the thrills of riding on motorcycle, but I just want you to get there safely, so you can enjoy it for a long time.

[vampscara]

Lots of nice feedback here. Thanks all. I've read all your posts.

Originally Posted by Tigerpaw

The bike will NOT be noticeably less visible from lowering it.

Sorry that was bad word choice on my part. I mean field of view for me. The higher I am, within reason, the better the vantage point I have to see what's going on around me.

Originally Posted by Panda

I'd recommend getting confidence and learning how to drive a car on the street first. There is a lot going on when learning how to navigate the roads,. There is even more going on with a bike.

Pretty much all of my minimal driving experience is on-street. The Driver's Ed. that I took was a non-school program for all ages. It had a few hours classroom instruction followed by around 10 hours of street driving with an instructor co-pilot (contingent on passing the written test during the classroom instruction). Even the first day I was the driver from the start. The instructor directed me around and talked me through various basic maneuvers up until the end. Lesson 1 ended with "Time's almost up so drive home." (Navigating home was 100% on me. I think he didn't know my home address until I got there as the lesson started from by my high school.)

Motofool

Thanks for the concern. Don't worry about sounding harsh. You're right. Motorcycle riding is dangerous and gear, while it will help, won't make me invincible.

The driving portion of my Driver's Ed. course had me driving in all common good weather scenarios for where I live (parking lot, school zone, residential, low traffic streets, high traffic shopping/business streets, highway, construction zones). In addition, I am okay with navigating the traffic in my immediate area (outside of the neighborhood is high traffic and higher than residential speed) on pedal bike (riding in traffic and taking the lane). Operating a car makes me far more uncomfortable than traffic does.

Originally Posted by 80MPHdownhill

I wouldn't do that. IMO your odds of getting seriously hurt are very high.

Elaborate please.

hirubhaiambani

No need to worry about me rushing into things. I'm currently just researching and considering. It'll be at least a few months before any real action (a MSF basics course). If I get that far, I'll have about 12 hours on a provided bike. After that I'll make the final decision on if I do want a motorcycle for transportation and on what type to get. I really want a sport bike; but, will look into getting a Rebel if a Ninja doesn't feel right.

Originally Posted by allanoue

Personally, I feel safer on a motorcycle in traffic then I do peddling in traffic.

Tis what I'm hoping for. At least on a motorcycle I would be able to match the speed of traffic. Zooming along with traffic has got to be better than traffic zooming past me.

voidrider

Excellent point about spatial perception. I need something I can see to use as a point of reference. Not seeing the hood in its entirety isn't a problem; I just need something to indicate where the end is.

Judging speed and distance aren't really a problem as there are plenty of visual cues I can use: that car passed from pole A to pole B in x amount of time (I can keep a steady count thanks to school band) gives me a relative speed judgement while things in my field of vision give me references to judge distance (the space between the poles and the length of the car, for example). Sorry if the distance part doesn't make sense or sounds too complicated. I'm so used to judging distances in this way that I can give a decent estimate at a glance.

algs26

Thanks for the video link. I've already been watching videos and doing a good bit of reading. Big decisions are best made after thorough research.

Originally Posted by Apex

If she is pedaling her way around and can negotiate traffic on a bicycle, then many of those habits translate directly to the motorcycle. Cyclists constantly are on the lookout for cars, potholes, bumps, dips, critters, trash, pedestrians, etc. I think much of the skills to operate a motorcycle have already been learned, to an extent.

This is exactly what I'm thinking. I already am aware of 2-wheeled hazards and know the rules of the road so the biggest hurdle will be learning how to operate a motorcycle.

the_little_one

Inexperience is a big issue for me and you're right. While I am expecting there to be some similarities, I know riding a motorcycle will be a vastly different experience. Starting on a scooter is a good suggestion; but, I feel my problem is more with car operation than traffic. I'm okay with a pedal bike in 40 mph traffic on the street just outside of my neighborhood. This is the fastest traffic I would have to be in as the highway is far from necessary to get around the city. Since I can already handle the type of traffic I would be in, would a Ninja or something like a Rebel be too much? I'm really wanting a bike that I'd stick with for at least a few years before upgrading to a newer model (and same cc unless I go from a 250 Ninja to a 300).