Be kind... please?

[Jerkson]

Originally Posted by Liber

not saying you are accusing me, but I don't think I've shown anyone on this forum any disrespect, with one exception and they seem to have taken the advice from myself and others to heart.

Oh no, I was in NO WAY accusing you. I was just saying that when challenging someone's opinion it is important to remain respectful throughout the process.

[almost40]

Seems to me that all opinions are respected here as long as they are presented with a degree of intelectual honesty. Your opinion is YOUR opinion, and if stated with any degree of inteligence, Ill read it, as will others. The problem rears its ugly head when a thread turns into a personal attack on an individual because his or her opinion isnt valid in someones eyes. Name calling is a childish act and adds nothing to the discussion.

Post something with a thought behind it and it will be smooth sailing as far as Im concerned.

Thanks again ALEX. We have disagreed before but I respect his opinion and read every word he posts. WHY?? He thinks a little (sometimes ALOT) and I like that. Theres no better way to add to your knowlege base than to hear a dissenting opinion and ponder it yourself.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by drsketch

A man has to ask himself at the end of the day....

Am I a whiny thin skinned little pansy?

Or am I a man, that can take a degree of sh!t from people, and move one.

And women? What must we ask ourselves at the end of the day?

[adri99an]

Originally Posted by almost40

So was that first post a memo or a mission statement?? Just watched part of Jerry Mequire. lol
group hug is fine with me as long as none of the male menbers here try to grab my A

You had me at "Group Hug" and did you just say you want male members to grab your a--hahahahaaa JK That was hilarious!

[alex.s]

this guy doesn't quit does he

[adri99an]

Originally Posted by alex.s

this guy doesn't quit does he

Some people have spoken in the past Alex- so you may not know the "inside" jokes others have on the forum....and no I don't....since you don't know me we should meet and hang out in person- then you'd see I mean no disrespect to anyone---you might be taking it out of context which is easy to do when you cannot hear my tone or see my expression. (no disrespect was intended in any part of this message)

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by adri99an

Some people have spoken in the past Alex- so you may not know the "inside" jokes others have on the forum....and no I don't....since you don't know me we should meet and hang out in person- then you'd see I mean no disrespect to anyone---you might be taking it out of context which is easy to do when you cannot hear my tone or see my expression. (no disrespect was intended in any part of this message)

haha sorry i was talking about "the great disrespector" drsketch.

[adri99an]

Originally Posted by alex.s

haha sorry i was talking about "the great disrespector" drsketch.

Hahahahhaaa- now that's hilarious! Good name for him

[almost40]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

I'd seen what the OP was referring to, the incivility and rude behavior. I put five names on my ignore list and suddenly the problem went away.

I only have recently added 1
makes things much nicer.

[adri99an]

Originally Posted by drsketch

alex.s please be nice to me, you're about to make me cry and make my own cry thread in motorcycling discussion

The Dr is rapidly becoming a nurse no one wants to talk to....chill Doc...why so snooty????

[money]

Originally Posted by adri99an

The Dr is rapidly becoming a nurse no one wants to talk to....chill Doc...why so snooty????

You'd be mad too if you were waiting on a new bike and the dealer wasn't delivering.

[adri99an]

Originally Posted by money

You'd be mad too if you were waiting on a new bike and the dealer wasn't delivering.

Okay that explains everything!

I'd be pissed!

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by drsketch

A man has to ask himself at the end of the day....

Am I a whiny thin skinned little pansy?

Or am I a man, that can take a degree of sh!t from people, and move one.

Actually your a 5'11, 230lb, 36" waste, with 19" arms douchebag

Wait that wasnt nice I'm sorry. But you should be able to handle it right?

[Liber]

[Snake]

Originally Posted by drsketch

A man has to ask himself at the end of the day....

Am I a whiny thin skinned little pansy?

Or am I a man, that can take a degree of sh!t from people, and move one.

I think it's time to vote some one off the island...some people need to look at themselves in the mirror.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Snake

I think it's time to vote some one off the island...some people need to look at themselves in the mirror.

the tribe has spoken!

[Kevin2109]

Yes! Thank you

[Honko]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

Actually your a 5'11, 230lb, 36" waste, with 19" arms douchebag

Wait that wasnt nice I'm sorry. But you should be able to handle it right?

Hahaha, nicely done.

[Liber]

meh, banned? really? :/

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by Liber

meh, banned? really? :/

Yeah hes been a super dick to everyone

[Honko]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

Yeah hes been a super dick to everyone

Let's not forget about California, just because it's a state doesn't mean it doesn't have feelings.

[Alex]

This thread is getting a little off track. And no, nobody was banned due to this particular thread. Yes, there was another thread that caused an action. No, nobody needs to get all butt-hurt about it. Yes, we should continue trying not to be dumbasses to eachother. No, we shouldn't lose sleep over someone being mean to someone else on the internet. Yes, I really need a motorcycle ride about now, it's not enough to just be following the IBR guys online.

[RhinoJC]

Originally Posted by Alex

This thread is getting a little off track. And no, nobody was banned due to this particular thread. Yes, there was another thread that caused an action. No, nobody needs to get all butt-hurt about it. Yes, we should continue trying not to be dumbasses to eachother. No, we shouldn't lose sleep over someone being mean to someone else on the internet. Yes, I really need a motorcycle ride about now, it's not enough to just be following the IBR guys online.

I'm not sticking up for anyone, but I have yet to see something from sketch that's ban-worthy, and I do agree with part of his comment. People seriously need to grow a thicker skin.

The world isn't full of sunshine and rainbows like some people want. If someone is getting to you, it's your own fault for letting it happen. Learn how to ignore people, and I'm not talking about the ignore feature.

If this thread is a passive-aggressive attempt to go at someone, that's what I find a little sad. While that may not be what it is, that's what it's starting to look like.

[Liber]

I trust Alex's judgement. If he says there was something ban worthy then it probably was.

Still, I have to agree that threads like these usually cause more trouble than they solve. The intentions of this thread were good, but sketch obviously has some kind of bone to pick with alex.s. After seeing his sniping in other threads, I just assumed form the beginning that this thread was directed toward sketch.

Then again, there have been quite a few heated debates on here as of late, and sometimes those can get personal, so whatever.

[LazinCajun]

Originally Posted by RhinoJC

I'm not sticking up for anyone, but I have yet to see something from sketch that's ban-worthy

Then you didn't see the thread Alex is talking about. He made the right call.

[adri99an]

This is dedicated to all that are having trouble on this forum....and to my friend who is no longer talking to me as well.....

I'm Starting With The Man In The Mirror
I'm Asking Him To Change His Ways
And No Message Could Have Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself, And Then Make A Change
(Take A Look At Yourself, And Then Make A Change)
(Na Na Na, Na Na Na, Na Na, Na Nah)

[alex.s]

alex is right in that this thread really has turned into a hate spout which is completely against the OP. what my writing was meant to encourage is the fact that without the help of others, we would still be a bunch of monkeys throwing feces at each other. you can't learn everything on your own, you need to learn from others' mistakes. why were books invented? you need to see where others have failed so you can try to avoid those failures. you need to base your actions on the successful accomplishments of others. people who invent new things don't start from scratch. they don't reinvent the wheel. they take an existing concept and make it better, or combine several existing things into something that wasn't available before. they use tools to make better tools. the same is true with skills. riding a motorcycle is a skill like any other skill, you learn from others' (and your own) mistakes. with that in mind, my original post was trying to communicate that fact. obviously it failed for some. the original post was trying to communicate the fact that taking others' experiences, and not understanding the point they're making and instead throwing feces at each other reduces the conversation to pointless grunting and monkey chest beating. there is no benefit from not understanding someone else. so instead of being offended by your misunderstanding, what the OP was trying to suggest is that maybe you should take more time to understand what you didn't understand about the person you were offended by instead of instantly throwing feces.

this in no way means you shouldn't be "thick skinned", quite the contrary actually. being "thick skinned" is what the original post was encouraging. what it does mean is you shouldn't be thick skulled.

if you didn't understand that from the original post, hopefully this will help you understand that. maybe re-read the original post.

[RhinoJC]

Originally Posted by LazinCajun

Then you didn't see the thread Alex is talking about. He made the right call.

I looked at a few of them and still stand by my statement. Anything beyond a mildly offensive comment was the result of an instigating comment made by someone else, so no, I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for anyone either way.

Were some of the comments made idiotic? Yes.
Could they have simply been ignored and the threads left to die? Yes.
Are the people instigating the issues just as much at fault as the person making the idiotic comments to begin with? Yes.

Alex stated nobody was banned, which is what I was agreeing with. If sketch or someone else was banned and a thread was deleted that I missed, so be it. It's not my forum and I don't make the rules. I wasn't arguing with Alex when I quoted him, I was highlighting a few sentences he posted and expressing my opinion about those sentences. Those comments were actually directed to everyone getting in an uproar about the whole thing, not Alex

When I made my original comment of the first page I hadn't read the other threads in question. But now that I have and I've seen the direction this thread is going I admittedly am a bit annoyed about what this thread seems to be. If my assumptions are correct, I find it to be utterly pathetic. If I'm wrong and this thread is genuinely about people being kind and respectful, then I apologize. However, I still stand by my post on the first page.

Edit: This post was made at the same time as Alex.S post, so his post hadn't been read before this one was posted.

[Snake]

Originally Posted by adri99an

This is dedicated to all that are having trouble on this forum....and to my friend who is no longer talking to me as well.....

I'm Starting With The Man In The Mirror
I'm Asking Him To Change His Ways
And No Message Could Have Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself, And Then Make A Change
(Take A Look At Yourself, And Then Make A Change)
(Na Na Na, Na Na Na, Na Na, Na Nah)

Great way of looking at things.

[RhinoJC]

Originally Posted by alex.s

alex is right in that this thread really has turned into a hate spout which is completely against the OP. what my writing was meant to encourage is the fact that without the help of others, we would still be a bunch of monkeys throwing feces at each other. you can't learn everything on your own, you need to learn from others' mistakes. why were books invented? you need to see where others have failed so you can try to avoid those failures. you need to base your actions on the successful accomplishments of others. people who invent new things don't start from scratch. they don't reinvent the wheel. they take an existing concept and make it better, or combine several existing things into something that wasn't available before. they use tools to make better tools. the same is true with skills. riding a motorcycle is a skill like any other skill, you learn from others' (and your own) mistakes. with that in mind, my original post was trying to communicate that fact. obviously it failed for some. the original post was trying to communicate the fact that taking others' experiences, and not understanding the point they're making and instead throwing feces at each other reduces the conversation to pointless grunting and monkey chest beating. there is no benefit from not understanding someone else. so instead of being offended by your misunderstanding, what the OP was trying to suggest is that maybe you should take more time to understand what you didn't understand about the person you were offended by instead of instantly throwing feces.

this in no way means you shouldn't be "thick skinned", quite the contrary actually. being "thick skinned" is what the original post was encouraging. what it does mean is you shouldn't be thick skulled.

if you didn't understand that from the original post, hopefully this will help you understand that. maybe re-read the original post.

Since this seems to be directed at me, I'll directly reply.

While your original post may have been about helping others, it didn't come across that way, at least not to me. I took it as a "We should all smile and hold hands" thread, which I don't necessarily agree with. Some people are thick skulled, as you mentioned. Those same people tend not to see a point unless they are smacked with it a few times. And if it's a point that could potentially be the difference between life and death, I'll be the first to repeatedly beat them with it until they get it. While I don't think people should start with that approach, it is called for at times.

I recall a specific thread not too long ago where a rider got into a wreck they shouldn't have walked away from and every reply was "I'm glad your OK", or "Get well soon". Even when that thread starting to show the glaringly obvious mistakes the rider made and the rider began to show an attitude of them doing nothing wrong, the "It'll be ok" responses continued. I believe I was the first to call that specific rider on his mistake and told the rider they need to put the bike away until they see the mistakes they made, or they would likely kill themselves, and was attacked for telling the rider to get off the bike. By not pointing things out and in a less than friendly way, that rider would likely not have gotten the message (although I still don't think they did). Personally, I don't give a rats ass if someone gets pissed at me and refuses to talk to me if the result is that they are still around to continue talking.

The problem with this is that some people see some of the less tactful techniques as being offensive or an attack, which is where my "Thick skinned" comment comes from.

As far as the arguments that have been popping up lately, ignore them. If someone feels the need to stick their two cents in and add fuel to the fire, they have nobody to blame but themselves when they get burned.

People also need to understand that by "feeding the trolls" they are encouraging them to stick around. If people want the trolls to go away, ignore them.

[adri99an]

Originally Posted by Snake

Great way of looking at things.

Snake-wished you lived in SoCal- you are very easy going......some people take this site waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to seriously.

And to my friend who is no longer talking to me- miss you bro!

We are the world....we are the children.... sing it people then get on your 250 and hit 100mph---let it all just flow away!!!!! Or watch Squid Video Productions that I just posted in the video section!
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=77987

[Liber]

this thread is dildos

[Snake]

Life is too short to take serious. Have fun and enjoy it while you can.

[alex.s]

first i'd like to say it was directed at many people, noone in particular.
for your points, i'll chop it up (faux news style ) and directly address each point i disagree with:

1: at least not to me. I took it as a "We should all smile and hold hands" thread, which I don't necessarily agree with.

hence why i suggested people try to understand the other side better before spouting out angerfists at them. if you disagree with someone's principals even if it is a jolly good day of grabass, what is the benefit of pointing out that you disagree, outside of stroking your own ego? if you're making a valid point about something, great. make your point. but simply saying that you disagree with someone is not productive toward much of anything if you're not stating what you do agree with and why it's a better point. like my previous post- humans learn from each other. if you're not contributing knowledge, what are you contributing?

2: As far as the arguments that have been popping up lately, ignore them. If someone feels the need to stick their two cents in and add fuel to the fire, they have nobody to blame but themselves when they get burned.

unfortunately there isn't a filter for "don't show me people arguing because they didn't understand what the other person was trying to say" so when you have to sift through pointless arguments and people being dicks to each other just to get to meaningful posts, it reduces the overall quality of the forum. i like this forum, i would prefer it to be a great forum filled to the brim with useful information for everyone. not filled with the crap you see on literally (figuratively) every other forum.

[Johnnyscoots]

This is one of the most friendly forums I've been on. Scootdawg.com would be right up there with this group of like minded riders. Posturing, angry peacocks just gum up the internet and cause too many unneccessary keystrokes and hate. I've left other forums (will not mention them because of their monosyllabic single digit I.Q.) because of the "Get a real bike" comments when most of those morons are 2 breaths away from a catastrophic accident. The 250 is a real bike. A darn good bike whether beginner or seasoned veteran. Low running costs, low maintenance, high smile quotient. We discuss variations of a similar theme. We sometimes disagree. But this kind of forum, I believe, is being watched by those in the business because it's a great R&D tool. See what people like, see what people want, then give it to them. I love reading tech posts by Racer X, Kkim, et al because they've actually done it, tried it, and do a great job of giving me the, "This is WHY" rather than preaching to me. They are helpful. And that is why this group makes ya feel all warm, fuzzy, and squooshy inside (or was that the habaneros with muenster???): They are helpful. They don't flame you incessantly because you don't subscribe to a particular dogma. And that's refreshing. Ride on!

Johnny

[RhinoJC]

Originally Posted by alex.s

first i'd like to say it was directed at many people, noone in particular.
for your points, i'll chop it up (faux news style ) and directly address each point i disagree with:

1: at least not to me. I took it as a "We should all smile and hold hands" thread, which I don't necessarily agree with.

hence why i suggested people try to understand the other side better before spouting out angerfists at them. if you disagree with someone's principals even if it is a jolly good day of grabass, what is the benefit of pointing out that you disagree, outside of stroking your own ego? if you're making a valid point about something, great. make your point. but simply saying that you disagree with someone is not productive toward much of anything if you're not stating what you do agree with and why it's a better point. like my previous post- humans learn from each other. if you're not contributing knowledge, what are you contributing?

It depends heavily on the subject. If someone disagrees and they find the point that they disagree with to be offensive, they will most likely respond with the same hostility they felt coming from the post they disagree with.

The English language relies heavily on tone and body language. The exact same sentence can have several meanings depending on the body language and tone of the person speaking it. The problem is that those things can't be represented in written text as clearly as they can through speech, which is a large part of the problem. The other part is that some people simply can't articulate a point as well in text as they can in speech. Structurally speaking, written text and speech have two different structures, especially American English.

Reading something is an interpretation of what the original message was meant to convey. If the reader interprets it a specific way, correctly or incorrectly, that is how they are going to interpret it. Expecting someone to see all possible meanings and picking the one they find the least offensive simply isn't realistic, or even possible depending on their level of comprehension. If you're referring to a consistent back-and-forth that becomes heated, then I would agree with you.

Either way, you're kind of missing the point. Asking someone to "play nice" right out of the gate is akin to changing human nature, it simply isn't going to happen. If someone responds in a hostile fashion and they are repeatedly ignored because of it, they will either change in an effort to be acknowledged, or go elsewhere.

Originally Posted by alex.s

2: As far as the arguments that have been popping up lately, ignore them. If someone feels the need to stick their two cents in and add fuel to the fire, they have nobody to blame but themselves when they get burned.

unfortunately there isn't a filter for "don't show me people arguing because they didn't understand what the other person was trying to say" so when you have to sift through pointless arguments and people being dicks to each other just to get to meaningful posts, it reduces the overall quality of the forum. i like this forum, i would prefer it to be a great forum filled to the brim with useful information for everyone. not filled with the crap you see on literally (figuratively) every other forum.

Not trying to be an ass here, but why do you need a filter? Can't you simply ignore a post without responding to it? If it's the mere presence of it that bothers you, well, who's fault is that?

As I said, if an offending poster is consistently being ignored, they'll change in order to be acknowledged, or leave. If they continually act hostile and they aren't being acknowledged, I'm sure Alex will ban/mute them.


Several of those other threads that blew up weren't the fault of a single person. While a specific person may have made an ignorant comment (although I read a few of them that seemed to have a sarcastic undertone), the comments were attacked by other posters, which is what started the argument. Had the offending comments simply been ignored... Just my 2 cents.

[Alex]

Rhino - I'm in agreement with much of what you are saying in how to deal with unwanted online chaff. Typically, engaging it only makes it worse. But this isn't a free-for-all where anything goes, and just ignore it if one doesn't like it. We have some pretty basic guidelines here (the Terms of Service), spelled out in the bottom right of every page on the site, that we all agreed to when signing up here. Very early on, I would have hoped to have not needed to have them, but it becomes challenging very quickly to try and figure out what's appropriate and what's not. What's sarcastic and what's not. What's over the line (whatever the line is) and what's not. One answer is "everything goes" and let people sort everything out themselves. Another answer is "ban anything/anyone/everything the minute things get heated". Neither of those work very well, and neither would be conducive to a friendly environment here on a site where many people are talking about their first motorcycle, and a good number are participating in their first forum. So we have those Terms of Service to make my life a bit easier, and to make everybody else's life a little easier in terms of interpretation. Here are the key parts that come up more often than any other section of the doc:

1.4. Members have the right to interact in a respectful environment.

and

2.1. Members will conduct themselves in a respectful manner. This is not to say that arguments and disagreements between Members are not permitted, simply that a level of respect is to be maintained in doing so. Members' posts should not contain malicious personal attacks, flaming, baiting, trolling, e-sniping, e-stalking, indirect attacks, and other such activities that are not conducive to a positive and productive environment. Personal threats will not be tolerated, and may result in a suspension, if not a perma-ban. Such posts will be acted on by interpretation of admins and/or moderators.

I fully realize that any rules whatsoever will at times be seen as overbearing to some, while I also realize that there are times where others would want me to step in earlier than these lay out. It's just how these things go.

I appreciate the discussion.

[ally99]

Alex friggin rocks. I think you moderate this site beautifully!

And I am very thankful for it. I've learned much here over the past couple of years.

[Snake]

I agree that Alex is a great moderator especially since he does it all by himself. I have been on other forums that have several moderators that let the power get to their heads and they flame members that disagree with their point of view.

[Firehorse]

That's a cool post, thanks for bringing it up.

I'm here via a suggestion of the fireblade forum. I've seen people here snark at someone and others tend to cool it down. Nicely done.

As a newbie, I don't need some self-righteous git speaking down to me and as a female, I'm the first one to throw out an innuendo or online a$$-slap but I appreciate the playfulness of the sexy comments and only very few are into degrading women or playing up the "rape jokes" they're not cool and there's very little of that here.

One moderator?? Nice job, wow.

'Telling it like it is' and being rude and disrespectful are miles apart. Like how your gear shows your skill or desire to acquire real skill, your posts shows your IQ or lack of. Hotheads and bikes can be a bad combination.

I like it here and I'm moving in.