ninjette.org

Go Back   ninjette.org > 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R > 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 28th, 2018, 07:33 PM   #1
Osmium
ninjette.org member
 
Name: L
Location: AZ
Join Date: Jun 2018

Motorcycle(s): 03 Ninja 250

Posts: 13
Stalled out at a stop, can't get it started or neutral

Preface: I am not a wise individual. Not even a little.

I got an '03 for a low price in rather weathered condition. Never rode before, but had it demonstrated to me, and it seemed quite functional, if a little leaky. Possibly a lot leaky. The oddity, it seemed, was that this particular one shifted a little differently, being Neutral at the bottom and gears all the way up. Took it home, gave it a few days, then checked over the fluids, topped up, and set to learning.

Getting into first gear without stalling the thing took a little work, but trial and error eventually won the day. Heady with newfound confidence, I attempted to bring it into second, which briefly seemed to work, and then tried to shift it back down in time to stop at the end of my small stretch of road, while applying copious amounts of break and suitable clutch.

This, apparently, kills the bike. Surely, nobody could have seen it coming.

So, I find myself with a problem. The bike won't start, and it won't get into neutral. The usual solution seems to be to rock the bike back and forth while shifting it down. It doesn't seem to work out. I can punch the shifter down as low as I can, but it doesn't seem to reach neutral even when the clicks run out. No light, no wheel mobility. I can shift it up all the way, too, it seems. The bike makes wonderful, clunking, hey-I'm-a-gearbox-and-I-hate-everything-you-are noises, but I can't really say if that means it's shifting, or just irate.

Is there a step by step method for complete fools on how to resolve this? Have I accidentally murdered the poor thing? Did I post in the entirely wrong section?
Osmium is offline   Reply With Quote




Old June 28th, 2018, 08:00 PM   #2
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
Hello L, It's good to meet you, and welcome!

I'll start by asking you about this shift pattern. You said neutral was at the bottom, so how many gears were up from that?
Triple Jim is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 28th, 2018, 08:09 PM   #3
Osmium
ninjette.org member
 
Name: L
Location: AZ
Join Date: Jun 2018

Motorcycle(s): 03 Ninja 250

Posts: 13
So far as I can tell, four above. This struck me as fairly odd, but up until now, putting the shifter down as far as possible seemed to land it in neutral consistently.
Osmium is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 28th, 2018, 08:18 PM   #4
Z1R rider
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Z1R rider's Avatar
 
Name: Roger
Location: Mitchell, South Dakota
Join Date: Apr 2014

Motorcycle(s): 1978 Z1R, 1999 EX250

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Oct '16
My first guess would be that the fingers that engage the shift drum are bent or rusty or the shift finger's spring broke. Odd that it would shift into second (guessing on this) while standing still as (most) Kawasaki's have a positive neutral finder, meaning they won't shift to second unless the output shaft is spinning (rear wheel turning) at about 3 or 4 mph.


by the way, welcome
__________________________________________________
top of the day to ya Unregistered
Z1R rider is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 28th, 2018, 08:33 PM   #5
Osmium
ninjette.org member
 
Name: L
Location: AZ
Join Date: Jun 2018

Motorcycle(s): 03 Ninja 250

Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z1R rider View Post
My first guess would be that the fingers that engage the shift drum are bent or rusty or the shift finger's spring broke. Odd that it would shift into second (guessing on this) while standing still as (most) Kawasaki's have a positive neutral finder, meaning they won't shift to second unless the output shaft is spinning (rear wheel turning) at about 3 or 4 mph.


by the way, welcome
Thank you and thank you. Hopefully I'll be able to stick around.

On reading about the positive neutral finder, I suspected the bike might have stalled out before I shifted down from second. Even so, though, it seems it shouldn't interfere with shifting down, just up? Assuming I've read that correctly.
Osmium is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 28th, 2018, 09:13 PM   #6
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
Four above is not right. The pattern is one below neutral and five above.

Not 3 or 4 mph, Roger, pretty much anything but standing still.

L, can you actually get riding 10 mph or so and try 1st and 2nd gear and back to see what happens? It's hard to tell if anything is really wrong from your description. Or maybe get someone who has riding experience to try it through the gears. It would be bad to start trying to diagnose a problem if it doesn't exist in the first place.

There are numerous interlocks that could keep you from starting it, like the clutch switch, the side stand switch, and the neutral switch, in various combinations. If you're in gear, you have to pull the clutch lever to start, for example.
Triple Jim is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 29th, 2018, 03:21 AM   #7
Cafe Racer
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Charlie
Location: Brick NJ
Join Date: Feb 2018

Motorcycle(s): Harley Fatboy, Honda CX500, Harley XL1200C Sportster, 305 Honda Dream, Ninja 250

Posts: 174
First gear is one below neutral.

If you have the bike on the stand not running it will not shift into second unless you rotate the rear tire.

Pull the clutch in, kick stand up and start the bike? If it will not start then you got to start trying to figure out all the stupid "nanny" interlocks.

Sounds like you can't get it into first gear.
Cafe Racer is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 29th, 2018, 05:52 AM   #8
Osmium
ninjette.org member
 
Name: L
Location: AZ
Join Date: Jun 2018

Motorcycle(s): 03 Ninja 250

Posts: 13
Clutch in, kickstand up, no starting allowed. If running it up the street while holding the clutch in will work, I'll certainly try.
Osmium is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 29th, 2018, 06:20 AM   #9
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
The running up the street thing is for successful shifting, not to get the starter to turn the engine.
Triple Jim is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 29th, 2018, 06:27 AM   #10
Osmium
ninjette.org member
 
Name: L
Location: AZ
Join Date: Jun 2018

Motorcycle(s): 03 Ninja 250

Posts: 13
Okay. Just to make sure I'm not muddying the issue, there's currently no response to attempts to start the engine from standing. Clutch in, side stand down or up, makes no discernible difference.

I've assumed that it being in the wrong gear somehow was the core cause of this, but if it should be starting regardless, that definitely changes things.
Osmium is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 29th, 2018, 07:21 AM   #11
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
Check the kill switch on the right side of the handlebar to be sure it's in the run position.
Triple Jim is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 29th, 2018, 07:24 AM   #12
Osmium
ninjette.org member
 
Name: L
Location: AZ
Join Date: Jun 2018

Motorcycle(s): 03 Ninja 250

Posts: 13
Kill switch checked, it's in position. Also tried switching it around, just in case I was reading it wrong. No dice on that portion.
Osmium is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 29th, 2018, 07:36 AM   #13
jkv45
Rev Limiter
 
jkv45's Avatar
 
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013

Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
Do you get dash lights when you turn the ignition on?

If so, can you get a green neutral light?

If you have nothing, the battery is dead or the connections are bad. Test the battery voltage with a volt meter. You should get 12.7V or more if it's fully charged.

As noted - click the shifter all the way down multiple times, while moving the bike forward and back, until you are certain it's in 1st gear - then click up gently to get neutral. If you have dash lights you should get a green neutral light.

Hopefully we can solve the cycle issue.

The other issue is training - I would get some. Check for MSF Basic Rider courses in your area. I think you would benefit and probably enjoy the experience. They will teach you things in one weekend that would take you years (and possibly a few crashes) to figure out on your own.

That, and make sure you wear full gear all the time.

/end PSA...
jkv45 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 29th, 2018, 07:59 AM   #14
Osmium
ninjette.org member
 
Name: L
Location: AZ
Join Date: Jun 2018

Motorcycle(s): 03 Ninja 250

Posts: 13
Heya, and thanks for the advice. I expect me and the pavement are going to be getting real friendly while I learn, so I'm not leaving my little stretch of run-up without copious amounts of gear! And at that point, the first place this thing is going is likely an MSF course. Very slowly.

I do get dash lights, and the battery is recently charged. Can't get a green light, though.

The shifter will click down, up to a point, but I'm not sure how exactly to tell when/if the gears have actually shifted during the whole rocking affair. Any particularly thorough method? Amount of time it should be taking?
Osmium is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 29th, 2018, 08:17 AM   #15
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
If you roll the bike slowly back and forth while putting gentle force on the shift lever in the down direction, it should downshift on gear. (engine not running, clutch lever released) The release the force and repeat until it won't go any farther. You should eventually be in first gear that way. Then one click upward should get you to neutral.
Triple Jim is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old June 29th, 2018, 08:23 AM   #16
Osmium
ninjette.org member
 
Name: L
Location: AZ
Join Date: Jun 2018

Motorcycle(s): 03 Ninja 250

Posts: 13
Got it. Will give it the gentle approach today, and report back with any changes.
Osmium is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 29th, 2018, 04:37 PM   #17
Osmium
ninjette.org member
 
Name: L
Location: AZ
Join Date: Jun 2018

Motorcycle(s): 03 Ninja 250

Posts: 13
Gentle approach applied. Results weren't favorable. I did try shifting up using it, and I did notice a distinctive click, and a bit of give, when I did. But shifting down and rocking didn't get me any response at any pressure level. It seems like the shifter is sticking short of where it would need to be to prompt a change, and there doesn't seem to be an external blockage anywhere.
Osmium is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 30th, 2018, 11:37 AM   #18
jkv45
Rev Limiter
 
jkv45's Avatar
 
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013

Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
Do you know anyone that rides that could take a look at it with you?
jkv45 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 30th, 2018, 11:41 AM   #19
Osmium
ninjette.org member
 
Name: L
Location: AZ
Join Date: Jun 2018

Motorcycle(s): 03 Ninja 250

Posts: 13
I do know a trustworthy mechanic. From the look of things, I'm either hopelessly uninformed, or there actually is something unusual going on, so they're likely my next stop.
Osmium is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 30th, 2018, 12:46 PM   #20
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osmium View Post
Gentle approach applied. Results weren't favorable. I did try shifting up using it, and I did notice a distinctive click, and a bit of give, when I did. But shifting down and rocking didn't get me any response at any pressure level. It seems like the shifter is sticking short of where it would need to be to prompt a change, and there doesn't seem to be an external blockage anywhere.
You got things mixed up here.

1. clutch-lever OUT, fully extended

2. push bike forward until it doesn't move any more
3. push bike backwards until it doesn't move any more
4. push bike forward harder until it doesn't move any more
5. push bike backwards harder until it doesn't move any more

6. somewhere between 2-5, you may feel/hear click in gearbox
7. squeeze clutch-lever IN
8. step down firmly on shifter, now you should be in 1st, or may need to step on it again
9. lift up gently 1/2 click and you be in neutral
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old June 30th, 2018, 12:50 PM   #21
Osmium
ninjette.org member
 
Name: L
Location: AZ
Join Date: Jun 2018

Motorcycle(s): 03 Ninja 250

Posts: 13
I see. I did keep the clutch lever out, but did not take it in before attempting the shift after. Just to make sure I'm following before I get to it again, is step 7 there to be done when the click happens, or is it a matter of going down the list, end of story?
Osmium is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 30th, 2018, 01:16 PM   #22
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Yes, when shoving bike back & forth, you're moving output-shaft gears relative to input-shaft gears and at some point they are in sync and shift-dogs are reset and centred. Then you can squeeze clutch and downshift further.

When slowing down, it's best to release clutch with each downshift so gears are engaged. Then at some point, you'll be down in 1st gear and try to downshift more and it won't change. Now you're in 1st for sure. As you're coming to complete stop in 1st-gear, squeeze in clutch at very end. Then you know for sure you're in 1st and neutral is only 1/2-click up.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 30th, 2018, 04:06 PM   #23
Osmium
ninjette.org member
 
Name: L
Location: AZ
Join Date: Jun 2018

Motorcycle(s): 03 Ninja 250

Posts: 13
So far, no good. There doesn't seem to be any clicking or similar past a certain point down, which seems, by my count, to be second gear.
Osmium is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 1st, 2018, 03:53 AM   #24
Cafe Racer
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Charlie
Location: Brick NJ
Join Date: Feb 2018

Motorcycle(s): Harley Fatboy, Honda CX500, Harley XL1200C Sportster, 305 Honda Dream, Ninja 250

Posts: 174
Seems you purchased the bike without much knowledge. I bet the previous owner knew he had a problem. You got it cheap.

Sounds like the bike has a great box problem. You have tried everything.

Here is your chance to become an expert motorcycle mechanic. Get yourself a shop manual and some metric tools. With help of this and other Ninja 250 sites you should be able it apart, fixed and back together.
Cafe Racer is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 1st, 2018, 08:33 AM   #25
Osmium
ninjette.org member
 
Name: L
Location: AZ
Join Date: Jun 2018

Motorcycle(s): 03 Ninja 250

Posts: 13
Well, if it's not user error, it can be found, then. I was indeed expecting to gear up for this one, I'll add it to the list. Thanks.
Osmium is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
02ninja 250 stalls when coming to a stop or when reving in neutral Catchandrun 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 17 May 2nd, 2016 12:42 PM
Stalled Ivan.Ilin 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 10 December 2nd, 2013 08:45 PM
FI Ninja stalled - possible problem? Christofini 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 3 July 18th, 2013 04:01 AM
Stalled geeker 2013 - 2017 Ninja 300 Tech Talk 16 January 4th, 2013 05:19 PM
Shifting to neutral when at a stop. Kitdog Riding Skills 55 October 28th, 2010 10:20 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Motorcycle Safety Foundation

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:11 AM.


Website uptime monitoring Host-tracker.com
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Except where otherwise noted, all site contents are © Copyright 2022 ninjette.org, All rights reserved.